2024 US Presidential Election

Hey everyone! Since the previous thread on the 2020 presidential election is outdated now, I've decided to created a new thread to keep our discussions more accurate and up-to-date.

Looking forward to all of the insightful contributions from the usual Tinnitus Talk political residents. But don't worry, everyone is encouraged to participate. As we approach the 2024 primaries and general election, I expect we'll see even more members join in on the ‘fun’. Also, feel free to discuss international relations and politics too – it's welcome in this thread! (Looking at you, @Juan).

Okay, so who’s running for president in 2024? I’ll give a brief overview on some of the notable candidates running for president.

On the Republican side, twelve Republicans have already launched their campaigns.

Donald J. Trump


Already considered to be the early front runner among the Republican hopefuls, Mr. Trump is currently in a multitude of serious legal challenges which could pose a problem for him. He’s the first president (former or current) in US history to ever face criminal charges. He’s been criminally indicted on two distinct charges as of now. He was first charged by a Manhattan District Attorney for ‘hush money’ payments made to an adult film star, followed by a more severe indictment from a grand jury, related to the handling of sensitive US documents. Furthermore, there’s also the possibility that he may be facing even more criminal charges, particularly in relation to the 2020 presidential elections in Georgia (GA). The investigation centers around Trump’s alleged efforts to reverse the outcome of 2020 presidential election in the state. @Jammer has graciously provided us recent updates related to the GA case over here.

But you know, despite these legal challenges, Trump continues to hold a strong lead in national polls among the Republican/conservative base compared to his fellow Republican opponents. His popularity among the Republican voter base still remains formidable. An interesting fact about Trump—he’s one of the very few presidents (only 4) that have ran for office in non-consecutive terms. For reference, Grover Cleveland is the only president to actually serve non-consecutive terms. He was the 22nd and 24th president of the US. Could Trump be the next?

The way I see it, Trump’s one of those turds that’s extremely hard to flush down. Never underestimate him and his antics.

Ronald DeSantis


The next ‘popular’ candidate in the Republican race is the governor of Florida. Seen as a Trump ‘lite’ figure, DeSantis advocates for conservative policies and is focused on issues such as tax cuts, educational reform, and the culture wars. Word on the streets is the man has no personality whatsoever. Just bland and boring.

His campaign is already off to an abysmal and disappointing start. He doesn’t seem to be gaining any traction in national polls. Trails behind Trump by a significant margin nationally. And just recently, it’s been reported that DeSantis had to reduce one-third of his campaign staff which suggests that there may be potential financial challenges for his campaign. This is not encouraging at all.

Prior to his presidential bid, he was hyped up to be the next big thing for republicans. That certainly hasn’t been the case. I’ve been way off the mark with my assessment on DeSantis’ candidacy. Can he still make a comeback? Stay tune, it’s looking very doubtful.

Mike Pence


Pence was the former Vice President serving with Trump. He brings an intriguing dynamic to this Republican presidential race as he has officially begun to distance himself away from Trump, adopting an anti-Trump stance within conservative circles. He firmly believes the Republican establishment (RNC) and its caucus will nominate someone other than Trump when the primaries are underway. Commonly referred to as ‘traitor Pence’ within the Trump Base due to the fact that he did not take any action to overturn the election results (via certification) as demanded by Trump at the time. There might be dead or alive bounty placed on him by Trumpers (joking!). There’s not much else to say here really. The only thing I will say is that his debate skills are pretty darn impressive. He has no chance of securing a presidential nomination regardless.

Vivek Ramaswamy


I’m not too familiar with him to be honest. All I know is that he’s some pro-capitalist anti-woke conservative. There could be some potential here though, so I’ll keep an eye on him.

Nikki Haley


Nothing special here to be honest. A former governor of South Carolina and was the UN ambassador to the US under Trump. Haley is also on that anti-Trump train. She’s just not very well known nationally unfortunately, therefore her chances of winning are practically zero.

That’s pretty much it on the Republican side. Here’s a recent national primary poll for each Republican candidate. Trump’s polling at whopping 52.4% while DeSantis trails behind at 15.5%. That’s +37 point lead for Trump over Ron... It’s pretty alarming to see if you’re DeSantis...



Now on the Democratic side. We have Robert F. Kennedy and Marianne Williamson. Their chances are practically zero.

Joe Biden


The current US sitting president is seeking re-election. Biden will be relying on the power of incumbency in the upcoming election. For those well versed in US politics, this shouldn’t come as a surprise. Incumbency advantage is a real thing and it’s been seen throughout US electoral history that sitting Presidents typically have an advantage when seeking re-election. They already have a 4 year track record and their visibility on being in office can resonate with voters more easily. With the power of the incumbency in the palm of Biden’s hand, it also means that he has full party support from the Democrats.

That said, Biden’s approval has remained at a steady 40%. 54% of Americans disapprove of the president. is the least bit surprising. Not too great and an area of concern to be honest. I would like to hear what you guys think and if these approval numbers will have any impact in the general election.



For a more comprehensive analysis on Biden’s approval ratings and demographic data, I recommend checking out this place.

 

@ZFire, thank you for starting a new election thread. Your summation is spot on. I propose that, with this new thread, we can offer our takes with a higher degree of civility than what happened in the 2020 US Presidential Election thread.

But let's not ignore merit by presenting parties as just "different". It's not hard to make an objective case that self-identifying as a republican, today, is morally challenged, unamerican, anti-christian, and supportive of criminal enterprise. Go ahead and be a conservative all day long, that's great, but being a Republican is not. The group is past the threshold of being able to scapegoat their way out of it by saying, "oh, well I don't support that part". At some point Republicans had to say that too many times and now they do support that part, whether their mouths agree or not.

 

America must demand better from both parties. We have "leaders" in this country that can't walk up a flight of stairs without tripping, some have mini strokes in the middle of a press conference, some need to be helped to vote in Congress, and some will be lucky to avoid jail time. We can do better. We need better leadership from both parties.

 

But if you're unbiased, you can objectively say the same about those in the Democratic Party also.

 

Sure I would, if it were true. I'm sure you know I'm not unbiased, just like everyone here.

I agree that leadership is getting old, but there is no mechanism to change it since Congress is all about perpetuity.

 

I try to stay out of politics due to the general lack of civility these days but my gosh. You preach about wanting to set a different tone with improved civility, then in the same breath dehumanize and cast 38.8 million registered RAmerican voters as morally challenged, unamerican, anti-Christian???

These are people who get up every morning, go to work, risk their lives as police officers and military service people, teachers, doctors, laborers, etc, who would help you in a time of need. Do you really think calling them all of those names to people who would lift you up as their neighbor is the way to make things better? This is EXACTLY the problem we have in this country. For every finger pointed at someone else, you can have a thousand pointed right back at you. It's not a fruitful strategy for change to point out others faults and frankly, we're seeing less and less a willingness for self-criticism in each respective party.

And I know how the responses to this go. Someone will say how can I just ignore all the bad things the other side does? I need to speak the truth. Well, whether we like it or not, people on both sides are going to feel the same way with the same convictions that the other side is the sum of all evils. So maybe we stop calling each other bad and look at the ways we are falling short as individuals.

How about this... pick a problem, then brainstorm ways to fix that problem without attacking the person involved. That's exactly what married couples are coached to do. The nation doesn't need a divorce, it needs marriage counseling. It needs self-reflection, humility and better communication.

 

Biden has finally acknowledged his seventh grandchild, Navy, an out-of-wedlock daughter of his son Hunter Biden and Lunden Roberts. Biden has repeatedly told the world that he has only six grandchildren. A New York Times article, "It's Seven Grandkids, Mr. President", by columnist Maureen Dowd, published July 8, 2023, was one of several, from various authors, that shamed him into addressing the issue.

The child is four years old, but Joe and Jill Biden have never met her. Hunter, who was proven to be the child's father through DNA testing, was involved in a year-long child support dispute with Lunden, and has never met his daughter.

 

Exactly why I said what I said because it's the truth about those who believe that Trump is their guy. But my tone was much softer than what he deserves. Criminal, rapist and mob boss are more fitting descriptions of Trump, but I left those out since I asked for more decorum in this new thread.

I gotta call them as I see them, only now with less bite.

I don't understand. You complained when she wasn't acknowledged, but now that she is, you basically post the same thing. I thought this would make you happy?

 

Agreed. I think most Americans would like some sort of term limit, or maximum age limit, but when people are elected (from either party) their main job is to get re-elected. They don't want to give up their power.

 

I can think of a lot of incendiary names that could be used for the current guy in power. None of these however have been proven for either guy. If this is your definition of civility, that is a joke and I just have to chalk it up as you're just "one of those people" who likes to fan the flames and can't seem to bite their tongue. My experience tells me that I know better than to converse any further with people who talk and think like you as it's far too toxic.

 

I forgot to include Dr.Cornell West (in the OP) who will also be running for President as a candidate for the People’s Party, a third party option. An activist and academic with progressive leftist ideals. He has been known to be highly critical of both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. He has spoken against Republican’s alignment with Trumpism while also criticizing what he views as the ‘establishment and centrist policies’ of the Democratic Party. West's usually focuses on issues pertaining to economic inequality, racial injustice, and the influence of corporate interests in politics.

While his chances to win the nomination are pretty low like with every other third party alternative, I only mentioned Cornell West because some people believe he could potentially be a threat to Democrats. There are concerns that if he runs as a Third Party candidate, he might draw/siphon votes away from Democrats, putting them at risk of losing support and giving the Republican nominee a potential advantage in electoral votes. I personally think it’s all going to come down to how well Dr. West campaigns and whether he’s able to raise enough money to mount a substantial operation... something similar to like Bernie Sanders in 2016 for example. I’m not really expecting much here, but we’ll see how it plays out.

 

These presidential threads sure bring about the arguments over who's the top idiot in American politics.

Vote for Pedro.

 

Biden has successfully passed three gigantic shifts in federal policy towards infrastructure, clean energy, and manufacturing.

The MSM, meanwhile, is surprised the economy is doing well as a result.

It's only a surprise if you haven't been paying attention to Biden's policies. The bills his administration signed are turbocharging the economy with massive investments in infrastructure, manufacturing and clean energy. Biden hired qualified experts for his cabinet, including Janet Yellen who is doing a great job handling the Treasury. I expected the economy to get better not long after these policies took effect and that is what happened.

Not only have we rebounded from COVID-19 exceptionally well, but we stand alone among our allies. Jobs are coming from these policies. Wages are finally inching up as well. All this means more money circulating through the economy.

By nearly every economic barometer, America's economy is seeing a BOOMING resurgence that exceeds our global friends.

Thanks Joe Biden.

 

Average Americans are generally poorer under Joe Biden.

"The average household has lost about $7,200, which was determined by multiplying the $3,000 inflation figure by two and then adding $1,200 in interest rate losses."

"According to Heritage, the $4,200 loss figure cancels out the real yearly earnings boost of $4,000 that transpired during the Trump administration for the average American worker."

Read more at:

In Biden's leadership, Americans have lost $4,200 in income, cancelling out Trump gains; says study

 

Of course this is from the Heritage Foundation, a bastion of lies that helps those of a certain politial persuasion sleep at night. Do your research next time.

 

Logical fallacy, ad hominem attack. Please provide data and facts to refute the claim, not attack the source.

Logical Fallacies: Ad Hominem

 

I think that Chris Christie deserves a mention here, especially since he is really laying it on the line against the leading Republican contender.

 

Yeah, I have to agree actually. It must have slipped my mind, my mistake. After seeing him at a CNN Town Hall meeting recently, he’s really been going after Trump to a great extent, hitting Trump where it hurts while at the same time putting his political career at risk. Because as we’ve seen in the past 6 years, any Republican who dares to challenge Trump is seen as committing political suicide. Most are afraid to challenge Trump.

Suppose I’ll give a quick overview of him too!

Chris Christie


A former Governor of New Jersey and a Republican, Christie initially served as a Trump ally and led Trump's transition team after his victory in 2016. He has become increasingly critical of Trump’s conduct and actions over time, especially in regards to the aftermath of the 2020 elections (Trump claiming the election was stolen from him) along with the January 6 riots. Chris Christie's primary goal is to challenge and break away from Trumpism. He is actively working to promote an alternative candidate for the presidential nominee. In other words, he’s looking to shake things up within the Republican party by offering a different direction.

Considering how dysfunctional Congress currently is and not to mention the conservative majority in the Supreme Court, the Biden administration has been surprisingly effective at enacting serious change where it can. There’s been no other president in recent time that’s had this much legislative victories under their belt. It’s by no means perfect of course, they’ve come up short in other places (rent is still high, wages aren’t ideal). But they still have done some good to help make up for large scale structural problems that been dragging this country down for a long time now like the chronic under investment in infrastructure and manufacturing. A government that invests instead of cutting taxes for the rich is way better, always was.

The fact that Biden’s age (yes, he’s a bit senile) and stuttering are the key factors that bring his public image down is a bit perplexing to me. Unfortunately, optics in this manner matter to a lot of Americans...

 

Again, excellent recap of Christie and how successful Biden is as president, in spite of Congress trying to stop meaningful legislation from getting passed.

Overall, I'd say Biden has done a good job leading the nation out of the quagmire that was the previous administration.

 

As bad as that is, it's a lot worse than that for so many people. The inflation over the last few years has been so high it has devalued savings significantly as the cost of about everything has soared. And when inflation decreases, that doesn't mean prices on average are dropping, it just means they aren't going up as fast as they were, but those high prices from massive inflation in recent years are already baked in and continue to go up, devaluing purchasing power of those dollars.

They call it Bidenflation. Inflation would be even worse if some of his efforts weren't stopped (more spending in bills, student loan bailouts passed on to taxpayers). PCE core inflation is 4.1%, which is still more than 200% of the target inflation rate of 2% for PCE core. And if it ever gets back to the target, it won't undo the damage that's already been done in lost purchasing power due to higher prices. They will keep going up from there with few exceptions.

Biden has an even lower approval level on the economy than his overall low approval rating. What he has in his favor is that people don't like Trump, either, but then Biden really hits them in the wallet.

 

Exactly, not to mention the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is at its lowest levels in over 40 years in Biden’s attempt to temporarily quell the inflation he helped promulgate, making us weaker and more susceptible to supply disruptions in the event of war.

In addition, during the early stages of the pandemic, Trump wanted to scoop up additional oil at around $27 dollars a barrel when it was dirt cheap but the Democrats balked and blocked him!

I say all this not to say one side players are better than the other, only that your side is never as squeaky clean as you’d like to think it is and we should spend more time addressing problems, not people.

 

We all know the pandemic gave corporations cover to massively raise their prices, especially on food and energy, which magnified inflation across the world.

As his Bidenomics policies start to take full effect, not only this has spared the US the worst of it, but also has flipped workers wages above the inflation rate.

And no recession on the horizon, no matter how many experts predicted one was inevitable.

 

Breaking News:

Trump indicted in Jan 6th investigation stemming from his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election and to prevent the lawful transfer of power to Joe Biden.
According to the 45-page unsealed indictment, the former president is facing the following federal counts:

1. Conspiracy to defraud the United States
2. Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding
3. Obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding
4. Conspiracy against rights

The DOJ lays out six co-conspirators of the former president who have not been indicted.

Trump was ordered to appear in federal court in Washington, D.C., on Thursday at 4 p.m. to face arraignment for the latest criminal indictment to be filed against him.

 

Now the chap wants to start a war with China. Did Hunter spend time in Taiwan too? Which were Hunter's antics in Taiwan?

Biden to ask Congress to fund Taiwan arms via Ukraine budget

 

My thought is he wants to prevent China from capturing Taiwan, thus preventing a global recession, depression, due to Taiwan's position as the world leader in integrated circuit manufacturing.

 

My personal feeling is the chip issue is overhyped. Companies and Big Tech NEED the chips to monitor everyone and exercise a control on mankind.

But the average guy does not need any of those chips. In fact, life was better when social networks did not exist, and cellphones did not exist.

 

But if we lose the chips, how can we maintain communication and discuss topics on Tinnitus Talk?

 

This may be a fallacy. I think you overlook indirect use. The average guy needs goods and services that are delivered with the help of those chips. Ergo, the average guy does need those chips.

Whose life, I wonder? Certainly not mine.

 

We have already been doing that for years. Maybe we do not need more chips, or new chips.

Personally, I would not want to drive a car that spies on me, that records private conversations I have with friends and family, that monitors and records the way I drive etc etc etc... consumers do not demand those cars. It's Big Tech and carmakers who are trying to push that idea, which will make cars more expensive to buy and more expensive to maintain and repair.

 

Could you provide specific examples? Can you estimate the cost of externalities too, this is, damage to the general economy (other jobs lost) or damage to the environment derived from producing technology?

Mine was better. In Spain I do not see consumers rushing to buy cars equipped with the latest technology, that are much more expensive and whose lifespan is more limited.

What I see when travelling to less developed countries is German cars, like 25 years old, still working. I do not see those Teslas. And when Norway for instance did the transition to the electric vehicle it was heavily subsidised. Most countries lack resources to subsidise such transition so consumers will have to pay out of their private pockets, emptied by the inflationary crisis.