Acoustic CR® Neuromodulation: a New Treatment for Tinnitus

[Steve]

How does everyone feel about Desyncra? It seems to be the American version of Acoustic CR Neuromodulation.

http://www.desyncra.com/

Does anyone know how Descyncra compares with the ANM device? Is it about the same? Anyway to know?

Hi dj.

Desyncra owns the patent for ACRN, they are effectively a new name for the older company. I believe (though can't say for sure) that ANM went into some financial difficulty and then DeSyncra spawned.

 

[dj_newark]

Hi dj.

Desyncra owns the patent for ACRN, they are effectively a new name for the older company. I believe (though can't say for sure) that ANM went into some financial difficulty and then DeSyncra spawned.

That's really good to know! Thanks for the info!

 

[fhs]

If it does/did work then the $6,000 price tag is nothing. 30+ years of tinnitus works out to just $200/yr for peace and quiet. Well worth it IMHO.

That being said I'm not sure why this would work. We hear different tones all the time when listening to music for example. People have listened to white noise for many hours while going to sleep or on the computer. The research did look promising though and there needs to be more of it.

 

[GregCA]

That being said I'm not sure why this would work.

If you read the scientific papers behind it you'll learn the hypothesis behind the treatment. That should answer the "why".

 

[elgringo454]

I was reading a lot about acoustic neuromodulation and the positive impact on T if used over a period of 4-6 months. The devices are very expensive (a few thousand USD) so was wondering if anyone can share his/her experience here (without trying to sell me a device [emoji6]). Is it working ? There are some mobile apps out there which follow the same principle but don't want to try this without research or some feedback of folks who have actually tried it. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

I was reading a lot about acoustic neuromodulation and the positive impact on T if used over a period of 4-6 months. The devices are very expensive (a few thousand USD) so was wondering if anyone can share his/her experience here (without trying to sell me a device

). Is it working ? There are some mobile apps out there which follow the same principle but don't want to try this without research or some feedback of folks who have actually tried it. Thanks for sharing.

Neuromonics make a similar programme and have an app which I think is about $150 which is "similar" to this. Their full blown device and counselling is thousands of dollars like ACRN too These music programmes are often used by Audiologists and the current "go to treatment". Efficacy is always debatable.

 

[carlover]

i paid full money did it for 6 hrs a day for exactly a year went back 8 times to re adjust as asked and it did nothing for me

 

[Paul10]

You can do it yourself with the right instructions I think, someone created a website for it;

http://generalfuzz.net/acrn/

There's also a thread going into good details about how to's and people's experiences. Unfortunately, my T is multi-tone including ultra-high frequency, and The Tinnitus Clinic don't offer it for anyone with ultra-high frequency T. @carlover , reading your post makes me kind of glad, I guess I have a few more £ in my pocket for that cure we're all waiting on. Good luck!

 

[Paul Coupland]

i paid full money did it for 6 hrs a day for exactly a year went back 8 times to re adjust as asked and it did nothing for me

Hi,

I am booked in next week with the Leicester partner of the Tinnitus Clinic and I am probably going to go down the ACRN route. I'm genuinly sad to hear it did not work for you. I presume you have tonal Tinnitus? Was there a trial period from which you could back out if you were not getting any results?

Unfortunately, my T is multi-tone including ultra-high frequency, and The Tinnitus Clinic don't offer it for anyone with ultra-high frequency T.

They do the Levo system for people with >10,000Hz. I can't comment on it's efficacy and price is the same as ACRN.

 

[carlover]

Hi,

I am booked in next week with the Leicester partner of the Tinnitus Clinic and I am probably going to go down the ACRN route. I'm genuinly sad to hear it did not work for you. I presume you have tonal Tinnitus? Was there a trial period from which you could back out if you were not getting any results?



They do the Levo system for people with >10,000Hz. I can't comment on it's efficacy and price is the same as ACRN.

hello Paul re refunds when I did it in harley st there was a real catch 22 situation.You had up to 8 weeks to hand it back for a refund less admin and set up costs which think were about a thousand pounds something like that. Problem is 8 weeks is not long enough to make a decision if it works it will take months. So if after 8 weeks it has not effected the T at all it means nothing

 

[Paul Coupland]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I guess I'll just have to suck it and see.

 

[Paul10]

They do the Levo system for people with >10,000Hz. I can't comment on it's efficacy and price is the same as ACRN.

Might give that a look at. I'm seeing a t specialist at the moment through the health service, but it's good to have a fall-back. Thanks!

 

[Paulmanlike]

This is the latest treatment to treat chronic tonal tinnitus between 200kz-8000kz, a treatment that if offered by private provider the tinnitus treatment here in the UK. It is also offered in other European countries recently.

On a radio interview with Mark Williams audiologist sat the clinic says that the initial consultation will determine if you will have results with this kind of therapy and if so it is likely you will respond.

In an article there was some cases where the tinnitus went away completely but the real aim of the therapy is to reduce the noise.

Now I have been thinking about using this generalfuzz website to make my own ACRN therapy, as I emailed the tinnitus clinic asking if I could just make it myself instead of paying £4500 for their treatment, no reply so that just confirmed I could probably do it myself with hopefully the same results.

My question is has anybody ever tried ACRN therapy? Any results? Was your tinnitus tonal and and what frequency? How long did you try?

 

[Reinier]

My question is has anybody ever tried ACRN therapy? Any results? Was your tinnitus tonal and and what frequency? How long did you try?

Yes I did. No results. My tinnitus frequency is 9.5 kHz. Most of the time tonal.
I tried it for approximately 12 months.
I have got the player, so later on I want to try again.
My tinnitus is from NIHL.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Sorry to hear it did not work for you. According to the tinnitusclinic.co.uk tour t frequency must be between 200-8000khz for it to work. Have you tried notched Music Therapy or the Levo system? Did you make the ACRN yourself or did you go to a clinic?

 

[Paulmanlike]

I'm very skeptical by the way, I know how private companies love business.

 

[Reinier]

Did you make the ACRN yourself or did you go to a clinic?

I went to a clinic.
The limit most of all has to do with the earpiece if I am informed correctly. When I did the therapy this 8 kHz limit had just been increased to a slightly higher frequency.
I slowly start to realise/experience it is "rest" my most damaged ear needs. Sound (especial higher frequencies) seem to makes things worse. perhaps that is one of the reasons this therapy was not successful?
Also this is one of the reasons I did not experiment with notched sound.
I tried this therapy because the concept looked not too far fetched to me.

I believe if you know what you are doing this do it yourself ACRN is the way to go.
Have some basic knowledge about audio. Frequencies, levels etc..

 

[andreus]

In Europe, desynchra (neuromodulation) is not available in France but you can have it in Switzerland (about 5000 or 6000 dollars) and in Germany and think that it's cheaper, may be about 2000 Dollars. Germany is very concerned by finding a cure for tinnitus and H and there are some specialized tinnitus clinics.

I forgot to say that two doctors practice this therapy in Switzerland. One is in Lausanne where you can find one of the best neurosciences researchers in the world and I think this doctor works with theses scientists. Sorry for my bad english, I'm french.

 

[Dr. Jay Hobbs]

Here is my latest explanation of How and How Well acoustic CR Neuromodualation works:

 

[Paulmanlike]

Hi I have been looking at acoustic cr neuromodulation for some time and wanted to try it now and I have some questions if you would mind answering them

1.) are there any independent double blind trials on this as one was in the UK recently and the results were not published, however a source said it failed to show any significant difference compared to placebo.

2.) the cost for desyncra in the U.K. Is £4,509 and only offered by one provider. There are DIY acoustic cr neuromodulation applications on the internet that just require you to find your frequency and put headphones in. What is the difference from that and £4,400 treatment option at a clinic, apart from obvious professional fees. (Neurostimulator was £1500 - what is that and how is it any different to listening via an iPod.

3.) have you any statistics or feedback of volume reduction of patients? Has any disappeared or gone away completely with treatment?

4.) would this be effective for mild yet tonal tinnitus below 8khz?

Thanks very much

Paul


1) A study was conducted in the UK, but an independent audit revealed errors in the study's conduct. A report was produced due to the university's obligation to the UK government, it is not a peer-reviewed report. Due to the lessons learned in this first study, an independent clinical trial is now being conducted in the US.
2) Our product was developed by Desyncra Tinnitus Ltd. and holds FDA and CE Mark. Any copies you may find online or elsewhere are in violation of intellectual property.
3) We have several published studies showing reduction of perceived tinnitus loudness (I have attached the literature/clinical summaries here)
4) You can consult our indications for use, but we cannot recommend any treatment for you. Only a healthcare provider can tell you if you are suitable for this (or any) tinnitus treatment. We are happy to recommend a provider near you who will be able to make a consultation for you.

 

[ImAllEars]

Heyo everyone this is my first post. Really happy to have found this community

I'm here for my Mum. She's had tonal tinnitus (high pitched whine) for a few decades. I don't know why why it's taken me this long to be pro-active about helping her deal with it, but I'm here now and really want to help her reduce her symptoms.

So, she was about to pull the trigger on this pos: http://tinnitus-terminator.com! I've hopefully talked her out of that one. She's also been for an initial consultation at the Tinnitus Clinic, and they've told her she's good to go on what I'm guessing is the Desyncra tech.

I'm a geek and good with audio so can handle the DIY option I reckon. So I'm wondering:

1) Is Desyncra just ACRN that generators like these, or is it some 'next level' super ACRN tech?
http://www.generalfuzz.net/acrn
https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/neuromodulationTonesGenerator.php
http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator

Check out this study published March 2017:
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/criot/2017/5304242

Of which the authors basically ARE Desyncra right:
1Institute of Neuroscience and Medicine-Neuromodulation (INM-7), Jülich Research Center, Jülich, Germany
2DESYNCRA Technologies Ltd., London, UK
3DESYNCRA Operating GmbH, Bad Neuenahr-Ahrweiler, Germany
4The Tinnitus Clinic Ltd., London, UK

And the study clearly describes how they're using standard ACRN.

So doesn't this point to the 'Desyncra is a new special ACRN' argument being bull?

2) Do you need special wide-frequency headphones to do this ACRN.

3) Has anyone on here done the Desyncra programme? Can you walk me through what they do, or can anyone point me to posts on here that give info on what they're doing. How do you use the device they give you?

 

[Paulmanlike]

Heyo everyone this is my first post. Really happy to have found this community

I'm here for my Mum. She's had tonal tinnitus (high pitched whine) for a few decades. I don't know why why it's taken me this long to be pro-active about helping her deal with it, but I'm here now and really want to help her reduce her symptoms.

So, she was about to pull the trigger on this pos: http://tinnitus-terminator.com! I've hopefully talked her out of that one. She's also been for an initial consultation at the Tinnitus Clinic, and they've told her she's good to go on what I'm guessing is the Desyncra tech.

I'm a geek and good with audio so can handle the DIY option I reckon. So I'm wondering:

1) Is Desyncra just ACRN that generators like these, or is it some 'next level' super ACRN tech?
http://www.generalfuzz.net/acrn
https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/neuromodulationTonesGenerator.php
http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator

Check out this study published March 2017:
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/criot/2017/5304242

Of which the authors basically ARE Desyncra right:
1Institute of Neuroscience and Medicine-Neuromodulation (INM-7), Jülich Research Center, Jülich, Germany
2DESYNCRA Technologies Ltd., London, UK
3DESYNCRA Operating GmbH, Bad Neuenahr-Ahrweiler, Germany
4The Tinnitus Clinic Ltd., London, UK

And the study clearly describes how they're using standard ACRN.

So doesn't this point to the 'Desyncra is a new special ACRN' argument being bull?

2) Do you need special wide-frequency headphones to do this ACRN.

3) Has anyone on here done the Desyncra programme? Can you walk me through what they do, or can anyone point me to posts on here that give info on what they're doing. How do you use the device they give you?

See my Correspondance above the Dysencra.

An indepent trial was not published because of deviations in the Protocol, although somebody said it failed to show efficacy anyway.

The research already conducted out is not yet sufficient to prove efficacy. However the evidence is certainly growing.

I would wait until something else comes on the market instead of a £4,500 treatment that might not work, alternatively an indepent study is being conducted in the US so I would at least wait for that to be published.

Also there is a chap here who used it as directed for months with no result.

I would say get your mum to use something tried and tested where's there's more evidence for relief such as wearable maskers.

 

[Issa]

hello all, i just want to ask is there any difference between the device that costs 4000 dollar and an application that gives the same neuromodulation if i know the frequency of my tinnitus? I mean if i download the application - tonal tinnitus therapy - that gives the same sound which costs 99$ would it give the same result as the 4000 dollar device?

 

[Wojtek Kalka]

No, because if you pay 4000$ you believe more than it works then paying nothing .. ... the more you believe it the better it gets ...

 

[GregCA]

No, because if you pay 4000$ you believe more than it works then paying nothing .. ... the more you believe it the better it gets ...

There is some truth to that...

 

[Issa]

There is some truth to that...

I mean as an advice ? Should i go into the device or not ? Cuz i honestly i feel that they are the same , i heard the generated sounds of the device , they are the same as the application cuz i know my frequency , what do u think guys

 

[GregCA]

I mean as an advice ? Should i go into the device or not ? Cuz i honestly i feel that they are the same , i heard the generated sounds of the device , they are the same as the application cuz i know my frequency , what do u think guys

I have implemented multiple tinnitus sound therapies in software using scientific publications as the basis for my work.
Unless what they offer is different from what the medical studies describe, I don't have any reason to believe that what I generate is different from what they provide.

If you do pay top price you'll typically get time with an audiologist to perform pitch matching, some follow-up sessions to adjust the therapy, and maybe some counseling and some handholding.

 

[Issa]

I have implemented multiple tinnitus sound therapies in software using scientific publications as the basis for my work.
Unless what they offer is different from what the medical studies describe, I don't have any reason to believe that what I generate is different from what they provide.

If you do pay top price you'll typically get time with an audiologist to perform pitch matching, some follow-up sessions to adjust the therapy, and maybe some counseling and some handholding.

So if i can adjust my frequency everytime and have the application , this device is useless ?

 

[GregCA]

So if i can adjust my frequency everytime and have the application , this device is useless ?

That's up to you to decide.

 

[Wojtek Kalka]

Did anyone found permanent reduction stories online from ACRN from real people?