Can Noise-Induced Hearing Loss Cause Pulsatile Tinnitus?

[nuno1976]

Hello,

A stupid question... does anyone with noise-induced hearing loss has Pulsatile Tinnitus?

On my mind, Pulsatile Tinnitus should always be justified by some kind of venous cause, Idiopathic Intracranial Hypertension or muscular issue but not by hair cell damage.

Am I wrong?

 

[Contrast]

no, not that I ever heard of, I highly doubt that. But it has a good chance of causing true"neurological tinnitus".

 

[Duncan L]

I have noise induced hearing loss and I have constant T and pulsatile T. Most days my PT reacts to noise levels and increases with ambient volume so I believe there is a direct correlation

 

[nuno1976]

I have noise induced hearing loss and I have constant T and pulsatile T. Most days my PT reacts to noise levels and increases with ambient volume so I believe there is a direct correlation

Really? Are you 100% sure the PT follows your heart beat?
I really can not understand how's that possible. Does not make sense in my head.

 

[Damien Cavanagh]

I have PT from acoustic trauma. At least, that's when it started.
My tinnitus cocktail is (in reverse order of nastiness)

1) Intermittent low hiss in left ear

2) Singing in both ears when I chew or put jaw forward.​

3) Heartbeat pulsatile tinnitus, low whoosh in right ear. Sometimes too quiet to notice, sometimes very annoying. When I lie down it sings for 1 minute or two then whooshes again. Can almost stop it by jamming my head against the headboard.

4) Sharp whoosh in left side of head with each footstep. Like sleeves on a plastic coat brushing against my side.

Note; (2) -> (4) go nuts for an hour or so if I attend even a moderately loud pub gig even with thick earplugs. That's the bass going through the skull into my ear I think.

5) Recorded music sounds flat, raspy and slightly distorted. Slightly improved with careful EQ. This is heart-breaking.

Everything arrived at the same time... so yes, my PT is noise induced.

 

[Contrast]

No it cannot.

Pulsatile tinnitus is a vascular condition unrelated to actual tinnitus.

Actual "tinnitus" is a neurological response to a loss of hearing where the brain fills in the gap for a lack of input from the auditory nerve.

 

[sakrt]

I have unilateral 24/7 pulsatile vibrating low roaring tinnitus as well. Nonstop. On some days my eyes also move in motion along with it, tic toc, tic tock like clock pendulum. Same with feeling it on bottom lip at times. It's a debilitating incessant vibrating that radiates over upper teeth and nose. Physical movement immediately increases it, hence makes it a struggle to function. I haven't been able to use my voice as well as it's too loud to manage. Fortunately I have a 2nd language to use.
Anyone else have this?

 

[Damien Cavanagh]

@Contrast
But many sources say that PT can occur because of heightened sensitivity of the ear... which can occur after audio trauma.

I believe this is what has happened to me.

 

[Contrast]

@Contrast
But many sources say that PT can occur because of heightened sensitivity of the ear... which can occur after audio trauma.

I believe this is what has happened to me.

I don't see it listed.

Pulsatile tinnitus can be caused by problems in the arteries or veins of the head, neck, or both. A 2013 review of the current literature indicated that about 28 percent of pulsatile tinnitus cases were due to venous causes, 23 percent were arterial, 18 percent were arteriovenous, and 31 percent were due to other or unknown causes. More than half of the venous cases of pulsatile tinnitus were due to idiopathic intracranial hypertension (also called pseudotumor cerebri), which has recently been associated with venous stenosis.

Many cases of pulsatile tinnitus can be traced to stenosis in one of the large veins in the brain, most commonly the traverse and sigmoid sinuses. The narrowing of the veins causes a disturbance in the blood flow, contributing to the whooshing sounds of pulsatile tinnitus. A new clinical trial for pulsatile tinnitus shows great promise that inserting a stent to widen the veins will restore healthy blood flow and eliminate the symptoms (find out more about the clinical trial).

Other conditions that can lead to changes in blood flow and result in pulsatile tinnitus include:

• Vascular malformations (including AVM and dural arteriovenous fistula): Pulsatile tinnitus is the result of abnormal connections between arteries and veins.
• Atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries): When major blood vessels close to the middle and inner ear lose some of their elasticity, blood flow becomes more forceful and easier to hear.
• Head and neck tumors: A vascular neoplasm that presses on blood vessels in the head or neck can cause tinnitus and other symptoms.
• High blood pressure: Hypertension and factors that increase blood pressure, such as stress, alcohol, and caffeine, can make tinnitus more noticeable.
• Idiopathic intracranial hypertension (pseudotumor cerebri): This is a condition that consists of high pressure in the fluid around the brain and is characterized by headaches, dizziness, hearing loss, and visual disturbances.
• Venous sinus diverticulum: A small abnormal pouch on the wall of the vein transmits sound to the ear.

 

[Ross McLauchlan]

I have PT that started the same day as my noise induced tinnitus. My PT also increases with noise exposure.

 

[Damien Cavanagh]

@Ross - same here. I have, in reverse order of vileness, T, PT, and somatic PT (there's a thread about that on this forum.)

 

[dpdx]

I dont think so

 

[PDodge]

I had pulsate T (blood woosh) for a few months about a year after I got T, I was perpetually ill a year and a half because of T stress and I think it caused it for me. It went away eventually.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

The cause of PT may depend if you are young or old.
PT is noticed in 4% of those with tinnitus, but if can be as high as 10% where more than half think it's non PT.

For the young it's often arteriovenous malformation relating to sinus problems.

For the old it's often arteriosclerosis. Buildup of plaque or cholesterol - hardening of the arteries. Included may be a injured leg(s) where veins/arteries have low blood pressure. If the leg is involved then the thigh will get sore. Leg(s) or feet will swell with lost of hair on top of feet. Feet will become red, but will turn white then being raised above heart level.
Exercise - walking and moving around as well as periods of raising the leg above heart level is needed.

Carotid arteries PT involvement will cause a constant headache and facial numbness. There's also 300 other possibilities that will cause a headache or facial numbness when having tinnitus.
Changes to the cerebral somatic regions that can include the jugular vein.

Blood work check - anemia, diabetes, sugar, fat, protein, infection, thyroid, vitamins, iron, and cholesterol.

Recently I posted a chart of which radiological tests are needed per possible condition(s).

 

[Halsy]

Yeah, what @Greg Sacramento and @Contrast said, PT is physical and not related to your hearing per se. Auditory nerves - you have 22 major ones in your brain than assorted other ones as well as your auditory canals and the bone throughout your head all of which are very conductive. Most pulsatile tinnitus for people with tinnitus isn't classic pulsatile tinnitus per se but your tinnitus being modified because it's picking up a pulse somewhere - more than likely several places. So yeah it's going to sound pulsatile and yeah it's going to be synchronous but it's not the same thing as a stenoses - collapsed vein - or a fistula - blood clot.

A couple that Contrast missed are it can be related to the C-spine directly - generally in the form of osteophytes (bone spurs) impinging on blood vessels. Thee's a condition known as Microvascular Compression Syndrome which is compression of the 8th major nerve. Sometimes under intense intercranial hypertension this can cause a vein to shift into contact with an auditory nerve - generally the 8th which is in the back of the skull around your brain stem. Even if the contact is just kissing the nerve it's enough to create pulsatile tinnitus.

There's also Semi Superior Canal Dehisance - which is what I have. The missing bone in my inner ear creates what's know as the "third window" for sound to enter into. It lowers the threshold at which sound is cut off - bad thing - instead of filtering it out. So when I'm upright I don't really hear the pulsatile tinnitus much at all, but the moment I lie down and it compresses all the blood vessels closer into my ear I hear the pulsing blood very clearly.

So no, no pulsatile tinnitus just from hearing loss.

 

[Jcb]

I've had a cold the last week and a bit, my ears were blocked and a new noise came with it, that seems to be a bit lower but the last few days I will get this thumping sound which sounds like it's in my head as well, it matches my heart beat especially when I walk up the stairs. It's not there all the time but I'm wondering Is this PT or just another side effect of my cold?

Also I've noticed that voices can sound a bit tinny and distorted, which is also highly annoying.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Jcb

Cold - possible PT
Water - vitamin C, B12 - maybe some iron if you are over tired.

 

[Jcb]

@Jcb

Cold - possible PT
Water - vitamin C, B12 - maybe some iron if you are over tired.

Cheers Greg, it doesn't happen all the time only since I've had this so I'm hoping it's because of the cold. I've been having pure orange juice daily and always stay hydrated.

 

[pochito]

I also have PT and from what i ve just read it s not "real" pulsatile. I have at least 3 different sounds but only the really high pitched T is pulsatile (I mean that it s following my heart beat and can become really loud if i do exercice)

but your tinnitus being modified because it's picking up a pulse somewhere - more than likely several places. So yeah it's going to sound pulsatile and yeah it's going to be synchronous but it's not the same thing as a stenoses - collapsed vein - or a fistula - blood clot.

Happy to know it btw cause i was thinking it was the classic pulsatile T and was wondering cause my T problem is fully related to sound trauma and started to follow my heart beat 1 or 2 years after i got my first T.

 

[Pabl692]

Just want to chip in here..

I think my T is noise induced. I have a couple of 'pure tones' that seem to shift between both ears and do disappear in a quiet room after a while.

But I also have this very weird high pitched metallic electrical noise that is above everything and is very difficult to mask. It's very difficult to describe, too. It is very somatic. And it's definitely pulsates.

The last couple of days it really died down a lot. I don't know why. But today, it's come back really loudly.

I do have a sore neck at the moment. And have for a weeks. My neck has been a bit inflamed and swollen round the left. I know this because a few days ago I started massaging it to try and make it better, and I couldn't feel the bones or muscles. Few days later, it's a bit better, and my neck feels less 'fat'.

I was wondering whether this noise and my neck was linked... can really having pulled muscles in the neck and soreness around the base of my skull really cause this kind of T?

 

[Halsy]

Just want to chip in here..

I think my T is noise induced. I have a couple of 'pure tones' that seem to shift between both ears and do disappear in a quiet room after a while.

But I also have this very weird high pitched metallic electrical noise that is above everything and is very difficult to mask. It's very difficult to describe, too. It is very somatic. And it's definitely pulsates.

The last couple of days it really died down a lot. I don't know why. But today, it's come back really loudly.

I do have a sore neck at the moment. And have for a weeks. My neck has been a bit inflamed and swollen round the left. I know this because a few days ago I started massaging it to try and make it better, and I couldn't feel the bones or muscles. Few days later, it's a bit better, and my neck feels less 'fat'.

I was wondering whether this noise and my neck was linked... can really having pulled muscles in the neck and soreness around the base of my skull really cause this kind of T?

The damnable thing is it can be caused by so many things. If you have a bone spur - osteophyte - impinging on a blood vessel in your neck that can cause PT. It doesn't take much to make it happen. Having neuromuscular issues - basically from the shoulders up - can cause all kinds of tension in the back and neck and that would affect your tinnitus but has sweet FA to do with PT - so far as I know. Maybe there could be some kind of vasoconstriction that might make that happen but I've never heard of it. Somatosensory tinnitus is a combination of issues ears/hearing loss and/or neck and/or TMJ issues. High pitch is generally indicative of tinnitus related to neck issues. It pulsates, but is it pulse synchronous? Do you suffer from hypertension? PT is definitely affected by that - or any general exertion that raises your pulse.

 

[Pabl692]

The damnable thing is it can be caused by so many things. If you have a bone spur - osteophyte - impinging on a blood vessel in your neck that can cause PT. It doesn't take much to make it happen. Having neuromuscular issues - basically from the shoulders up - can cause all kinds of tension in the back and neck and that would affect your tinnitus but has sweet FA to do with PT - so far as I know. Maybe there could be some kind of vasoconstriction that might make that happen but I've never heard of it. Somatosensory tinnitus is a combination of issues ears/hearing loss and/or neck and/or TMJ issues. High pitch is generally indicative of tinnitus related to neck issues. It pulsates, but is it pulse synchronous? Do you suffer from hypertension? PT is definitely affected by that - or any general exertion that raises your pulse.

Hi, thanks for your reply.

The trouble is, I find it so difficult to explain what it sounds like. Sure, I have 'pure tones' of T, which mainly comes in my left ear, but sometimes both. This is triggered by most sounds, but it is really easily maskable. The 'hiss' is so much harder to describe. It's above most things.

It is such a high frequency. I could say it sounds like really highly compressed air. When it is loud, it sounds like compressed air leaking through a tiny hole. Or sort of like electricity, but it doesn't buzz. You could say like crickets, but it's thinner and more metallic. I can almost feel it tingling in my head. I can modulate it somewhat by moving my head, jaw, eyes as well as pressing on my neck.

It's synchronous to an extent. As my heart beats, it disappears, and then maybe a few tenths of a second it reaches it level again. But I'm not sure whether it is more to do with how my pupils in my eyes follow my heartbeat. I have a really forceful heartbeat (I had my heart checked out this year by a cardiologist, had an echo etc and everything was fine). I think this because the T seems to react to light, weirdly.

I don't suffer from hypertension. My blood pressure is fine and usually slightly on the low side.

Pretty sure this has all come on due to noise exposure. My own silly fault. Had it approaching 5 weeks now. I have moments when it dies down to next to nothing but then I can be in the shopping center and I can hear/feel it, hissing away above everything. Soul destroying!

Sorry for the essay haha Thanks again

Paul

 

[Damien Cavanagh]

Hi again all.

This thread is confusing my addled brain.

In my R ear I have a pulsating whoosh which is absolutely 100% perfectly in sync with my heartbeat.

It appeared a couple of weeks after my noise induced T, and only very occasionally disappears for a minute or two. Occasionally it flares up into a bilateral, louder, sharper hiss.
It has all the symptoms of PT, yet I'm being told it's not PT.

Do those symptoms describe any *other* form of tinnitus?

 

[Contrast]

Pusatile tinnitus does not share pathologies with actual tinnitus however I do think it can be induced by damaging the ear with noise simply because so many people on this forum claim to have it after acoustic trauma

??? I'm just going to crudely hypothesis that the brain might have a Central loudness amplificator that cranks up the volume of external stimulus, so it picks up on blood flow noises and nervous system buzzing, food digesting, that would make a seperate issue from tinnitus and pusatile tinnitus.


Also to test my hypothesis we need to know of those suffering from noise induced acoustic trauma also have to deal with loudness discomfort such as noises sounding too loud but not painful.

I actually doubt this hypothesis, but if true we need even more classification of these conditions

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hi again all.

This thread is confusing my addled brain.

In my R ear I have a pulsating whoosh which is absolutely 100% perfectly in sync with my heartbeat.

It appeared a couple of weeks after my noise induced T, and only very occasionally disappears for a minute or two. Occasionally it flares up into a bilateral, louder, sharper hiss.
It has all the symptoms of PT, yet I'm being told it's not PT.

Do those symptoms describe any *other* form of tinnitus?

HI @Damien Cavanagh

If you are unable to start a conversation via PM then it's better to ask me in the main forum, as you will have a limited amount of words to use posting on my profile page. Please contact @Markku who I'm sure will be able to help you out starting a conversation on PM.

Reading your post on another thread which has been deleted, reminds me so much of my experiences with "noise trauma" 23 years ago, as I was going through very similar things and more that I will explain below. The wooshing, pulsating and hissing sounds with each footstep I know all to well and it can be quite worrying at times. This will improve but it will take time for your auditory system to recover. It is noise trauma that has caused all of this and TRT will not alleviate it. Time is the only treatment that will help and cure it. In my case it took about 8 months. Each person is different so what applies to me maybe different for you.

I will never forget one night around 2am I had the most harrowing experience. I awoke to the sound of extremely loud hissing/whistle coming from both ears, like the old fashioned gas kettle coming to a boil on the stove. It frightened the life out of me! I jumped out of bed, quickly got dressed and drove to Accident and Emergency at my local hospital. For 6 months the whole of my head and both ears felt completely numb. I could hear but everything sounded as if my head was under water. It was a very scary time.

I went to herbalist and explained my experiences as you have described and what I have mentioned above. She was extremely helpful and knew a lot about tinnitus caused by "noise trauma". This very helpful woman, explained the auditory system consists of mainly nerves and they had become traumatised due to loud noise, headphones use. I was advised to start taking Magnesium tablets, to help repair the nerves which I took daily. I started taking Gingko Biloba too as a Tincture.

By the time I was seen at ENT and referred to a Hearing Therapist to start TRT my head no longer felt numb. The whooshing and pulsating heartbeat in my ears had cleared up. The tinnitus and hyperacusis were still severe but after 2 years of TRT, the tinnitus has reduced to a very low level and the hyperacusis was completely cured using white noise generators. The hyperacusis is still cured to this day. Thankfully, it did not return after my second noise trauma in 2008.

Hope this helps.
Give it time you will get better.
Michael

 

[Damien Cavanagh]

Thanks Michael! I've found your reply very reassuring. It sounds like you symptoms were much worse than mine, especially the H, but they sound very similar. I still hadn't found anybody with the same symptoms, especially the footstep hiss. My ENT said he'd never heard of that before, and sent me for an ultrasound. Of course that was a waste of time, apart from the fact that I find ultrasound tests quite relaxing
The pulsating T and the footstep hiss have been causing me considerable anxiety, especially since they seem so volatile and unmask able. The classic T hiss is my L ear can get quite loud but I can deal with it. It also fades if I listen to music. As you probably read, all music is distorted, flat and tinny, but in the last couple of weeks I seen (shurely "heard" -ed ) some improvement, at least on my Mac speakers (not brave enough to try any others...) Music is becoming a little clearer, and some top end is coming back. Now I can hear hi-hats and ride cymbals, albeit quietly. And the 16 kHz slider on the EQ now makes a tiny difference to what I can hear. People still lisp randomly though. And the H, which caused me to yelp in Sainsbury's when I scanned a tin of beans, is slowly getting better it seems. In the last couple of weeks, after reading one of your posts, I've been playing soothing sounds all night from a couple of old computer speakers positioned on either edge of my mattress, and I'm sure that's been helping.
As I said, your tale of recovery from such appalling symptoms has perked me up a lot. Although of course in 1996 I suppose you were quite young, whereas I'm 54 so my capacity for regeneration is probably degraded. That's one reason I chose to do HBOT. Even though it's beyond three months I'm still tempted to give it a few more sessions. Chatting to the stoic MS sufferers in the oxygen chamber was also uplifting. They were full of happiness, genuine interest and empathy.

Anyway, thanks again, it's amazing how a reassuring message (with real substance) can affect one's mood.

 

[PaulFi]

Thanks Michael! I've found your reply very reassuring. It sounds like you symptoms were much worse than mine, especially the H, but they sound very similar. I still hadn't found anybody with the same symptoms, especially the footstep hiss. My ENT said he'd never heard of that before, and sent me for an ultrasound. Of course that was a waste of time, apart from the fact that I find ultrasound tests quite relaxing
The pulsating T and the footstep hiss have been causing me considerable anxiety, especially since they seem so volatile and unmask able. The classic T hiss is my L ear can get quite loud but I can deal with it. It also fades if I listen to music. As you probably read, all music is distorted, flat and tinny, but in the last couple of weeks I seen (shurely "heard" -ed ) some improvement, at least on my Mac speakers (not brave enough to try any others...) Music is becoming a little clearer, and some top end is coming back. Now I can hear hi-hats and ride cymbals, albeit quietly. And the 16 kHz slider on the EQ now makes a tiny difference to what I can hear. People still lisp randomly though. And the H, which caused me to yelp in Sainsbury's when I scanned a tin of beans, is slowly getting better it seems. In the last couple of weeks, after reading one of your posts, I've been playing soothing sounds all night from a couple of old computer speakers positioned on either edge of my mattress, and I'm sure that's been helping.
As I said, your tale of recovery from such appalling symptoms has perked me up a lot. Although of course in 1996 I suppose you were quite young, whereas I'm 54 so my capacity for regeneration is probably degraded. That's one reason I chose to do HBOT. Even though it's beyond three months I'm still tempted to give it a few more sessions. Chatting to the stoic MS sufferers in the oxygen chamber was also uplifting. They were full of happiness, genuine interest and empathy.

Anyway, thanks again, it's amazing how a reassuring message (with real substance) can affect one's mood.

Hey Damien, I am going through the same footstep hiss and almost identical adfitaddit symptoms to you. I also have crackling in ears when swallowing and I am pretty sure I have some H.
Thank you @Michael Leigh for your informative and encouraging replies.
This is a relapse for me. I first got T 8 years ago.
Enjoy weekend guys
Paul

 

[PaulFi]

Thanks Michael! I've found your reply very reassuring. It sounds like you symptoms were much worse than mine, especially the H, but they sound very similar. I still hadn't found anybody with the same symptoms, especially the footstep hiss. My ENT said he'd never heard of that before, and sent me for an ultrasound. Of course that was a waste of time, apart from the fact that I find ultrasound tests quite relaxing
The pulsating T and the footstep hiss have been causing me considerable anxiety, especially since they seem so volatile and unmask able. The classic T hiss is my L ear can get quite loud but I can deal with it. It also fades if I listen to music. As you probably read, all music is distorted, flat and tinny, but in the last couple of weeks I seen (shurely "heard" -ed ) some improvement, at least on my Mac speakers (not brave enough to try any others...) Music is becoming a little clearer, and some top end is coming back. Now I can hear hi-hats and ride cymbals, albeit quietly. And the 16 kHz slider on the EQ now makes a tiny difference to what I can hear. People still lisp randomly though. And the H, which caused me to yelp in Sainsbury's when I scanned a tin of beans, is slowly getting better it seems. In the last couple of weeks, after reading one of your posts, I've been playing soothing sounds all night from a couple of old computer speakers positioned on either edge of my mattress, and I'm sure that's been helping.
As I said, your tale of recovery from such appalling symptoms has perked me up a lot. Although of course in 1996 I suppose you were quite young, whereas I'm 54 so my capacity for regeneration is probably degraded. That's one reason I chose to do HBOT. Even though it's beyond three months I'm still tempted to give it a few more sessions. Chatting to the stoic MS sufferers in the oxygen chamber was also uplifting. They were full of happiness, genuine interest and empathy.

Anyway, thanks again, it's amazing how a reassuring message (with real substance) can affect one's mood.

Is HBOT treatment beneficial guys or is there anything to it?
Thanks
Paul

 

[Damien Cavanagh]

@PaulFi Hi Paul, thanks, it's so rare to hear from somebody who has the footstep hiss!
Is it improving?
Mine isn't. Although one night after a lot of curry and alcohol it completely disappeared for 12 hours.

 

[PaulFi]

@PaulFi Hi Paul, thanks, it's so rare to hear from somebody who has the footstep hiss!
Is it improving?
Mine isn't. Although one night after a lot of curry and alcohol it completely disappeared for 12 hours.

Hi Damian,
Mine is improving. I notice it seems to come back when I am stressed, definitely linked I think. How's your mood?
Paul