Cervical Spine Interventions?

[linearb]

Hello,

I am hypermobile, and I have lots of pain and discomfort in my cervical spine and TMJ, which I have long suspected as a contributing factor to my T. I believe that when spinal nerves are compressed, it may contribute to "cross talk" between somatic nerves and perceptual nerves -- the question is what to do about it.

I came across this:
http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/detalhe_artigo.asp?id=236

After becoming aware of the secondary symptom of tinnitus, which some of the patients found very unpleasant, we evaluated the statistics more specifically. Our analysis showed that patients with degenerative changes in the lower cervical spine only rarely reported tinnitus as a secondary symptom, whereas the patient group with instability at the craniocervical junction had usually reported a unilateral or bilateral high-pitched whistle. In patients with dysfunction at C2-C3 or C3-C4, we also found tinnitus but of a different character. This mostly manifested as splashing or crackling noises.

During surgery on those in the latter patient group, special attention was paid to ensuring complete relief of any nerve structures that may have been involved. At the same time, the region was stabilized, with a very strong emphasis on physiological correction of the craniocervical junction geometry. After operative correction and rehabilitation, the tinnitus disappeared completely and permanently in all but two patients.

The pictures there are pretty extreme; this is obviously a very serious surgery which should not be taken lightly. But, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this. I'm going to see about being evaluated for cervical instability.

 

[nills]

you need to hang my friend ... create space between your vertebrates ... #Yoga #inversions #ropes #Iyengar

just like this one

 

[linearb]

you need to hang my friend ... create space between your vertebrates ... #Yoga #inversions #ropes #Iyengar

You might be on to something. I actually have a teeter hang-ups inversion rack at home, I've been bad about using it. I think before I consider something crazy like spinal surgery, I should get in a good 6-12 months of doing cervical flexion exercises every day and using my rack for 10 mins before sleep.

I often (not always) notice that my ringing is much reduced in the morning, and then reasserts itself within 20-40 minutes of getting up. The thing is, I think this may have more to do with cervical compression, than it does with just being awake, because if I lay in bed for an hour before I get up (which I often do, my wife leaves early and then my cats want cuddle time), the T often stays low that whole time until i'm actually up and moving around.

Maybe I just need to move to someplace with lower gravity, like the moon I hear the dark side is lovely this time of year....
http://time.com/3700368/dark-side-of-the-moon-nasa-animation/

 

[nills]

@linearb

Sounds very possible what you say ... I experience the same thing ... and another thing I notice is that when i`m on my computer my T get`s louder ... I always thought the only logical but useless explenation would be the electrical charge running through the computer ... but now I actually notice how hunched i`m sitting in fromt of it ... my whole back compressed and neck tilted forward ...

We might be onto something!

I also love Yoga but since T i`m less and less motivated to be mindfull for an hour of the noise in my head .. but I`m planning to go to India for few months to really dive into it again .. and do a lot of inversions ...

I can actually manipulate my T with my neck ... when I push my chin forward my T changes! ...

I think it is time for some kine-therapy ..

I just got back from BRAI2N last week and they checked my neck ... and I dodn`t notice any diffrence when they did the manipulations ... but this movement really changes the sound of it ...

 

[linearb]

Yeah, I think we're on to something with this. Even if hearing damage is a factor, there's something going on -- perhaps a lack of normal auditory input causes hyperactivity, and then somatic crossover into the auditory nerve which would normally get blocked by real stimuli, allows the somatic signal to be incorrectly perceived?

The question is what to do about it. There are any number of fairly nonsense looking "cures" to cervical problems... NUCCA comes to mind, and that's something which some small number of people report success with for a number of things including tinnitus, and other people just say "I spent $X thousand on this and it didn't do anything", or worse "I spent $X thousand on this and my ringing is louder than ever!"

I've often wondered what would happen to me if I just spent a year never sitting down, never on a computer, did yoga 4 hours a day, and did lots of swimming / saunas. I bet it would make me feel all kinds of better, and I wouldn't be shocked if it reduced my tinnitus.

Unfortunately, large amounts of time in front of the computer is intimately tied to my financial self-sufficiency. If I can find someone who wants to pay me a software developer's salary to just do cervical relaxation all day, I'll jump right on that Do you know a benevolent billionaire?

 

[grate_biff]

Yeah, I think we're on to something with this. Even if hearing damage is a factor, there's something going on -- perhaps a lack of normal auditory input causes hyperactivity, and then somatic crossover into the auditory nerve which would normally get blocked by real stimuli, allows the somatic signal to be incorrectly perceived?

The question is what to do about it. There are any number of fairly nonsense looking "cures" to cervical problems... NUCCA comes to mind, and that's something which some small number of people report success with for a number of things including tinnitus, and other people just say "I spent $X thousand on this and it didn't do anything", or worse "I spent $X thousand on this and my ringing is louder than ever!"

I've often wondered what would happen to me if I just spent a year never sitting down, never on a computer, did yoga 4 hours a day, and did lots of swimming / saunas. I bet it would make me feel all kinds of better, and I wouldn't be shocked if it reduced my tinnitus.

Unfortunately, large amounts of time in front of the computer is intimately tied to my financial self-sufficiency. If I can find someone who wants to pay me a software developer's salary to just do cervical relaxation all day, I'll jump right on that Do you know a benevolent billionaire?

Yeah, always better when I wake up. Thought maybe it was the brain still not fully activ, but I also think you are on to something. Found this:

A 2000 study in the International Tinnitus Journal indicates that tinnitus can result from an unstable situation of the cervico-cranial junction, which is the relationship between the base of the skull and the first cervical vertebra or neck bone. There are a bundle of nerves and the brainstem, which extends to this region. It is often compromised in the typical forward head posture, where this area can be compressed. Tinnitus related to this area of the neck can cause a high pitch whistle. Tinnitus is known to resolve with surgical correction or stabilization in this area from correcting forward head posture. A disc herniation, injuries to the disc and ligaments or even metastatic diseases down to the third cervical area may cause tinnitus, which may also respond to surgical repair. - See more at: http://www.necksolutions.com/tinnitus.html#sthash.ZBlY3aVR.dpuf

 

[grate_biff]

And this:

A 2014 issue of the Pain Physician Journal describes a case study where a subject had been suffering left sided tinnitus for 3 years. He had a negative initial medical work-up and noted slight left sided neck pain. X-rays were taken that showed facet joint hypertrophy on the left side. A procedure was done to block and deaden the nerve at C2/3, and this eliminated tinnitus, which was still noted at 1 year follow-up.

The 2013 issue of the Journal of the American Academy of Audiology did a case study on a patient with tinnitus, focusing on normal neck mobility, mobilization of the joints and tissue massage. After 10 sessions, there was a complete reversal of the subjects tinnitus. It was noted that certain motions of the neck done against resistance made the tinnitus worse, so there were indications that the cervical spine was involved.

A 2015 issue of the journal Otolology & Neurotology studied neck dysfunction in chronic tinnitus patients. The authors of the study found that cervical spine dysfunction consisting of motion range, pain producing tests, muscle soreness and weakness, along with functional ability questions were significantly higher in the patients with chronic tinnitus.

Thus, tinnitus may be related to or have an association with neck problems. Tinnitus from the neck is called "cervicogenic somatic tinnitus". Although adjustments did not help my tinnitus, it is reasonable to take easy to implement measures such as detailed at Neck Solutions or seek professional help from a Chiropractor as a secondary approach. It should not take long to notice a difference in tinnitus after adjusting the cervical spine. The first approach should be medical to rule out any serious conditions, like an acoustic neuroma.

- See more at: http://www.necksolutions.com/tinnitus.html#sthash.vfvnKZoN.dpuf

 

[Nucleo]

Yeah, I think we're on to something with this. Even if hearing damage is a factor, there's something going on -- perhaps a lack of normal auditory input causes hyperactivity, and then somatic crossover into the auditory nerve which would normally get blocked by real stimuli, allows the somatic signal to be incorrectly perceived?

This is the current theory behind somatic tinnitus.

 

[skoupidis]

Ok here is my situation:

-My T is a high pitch, unilatera sound.

-When I open my mouth wide, the T increases VERY much, really noticeable only from the one side, naturally.

-Also, when I walk down the stairs, (or walking) there is a zip like sound that comes out possibly of neck movement/spine compression.

-Similar sounds I get when turning the neck. All sudden zips (the walking down the stair lasts a bit more and is more intense, like scratching!).

-I checked via MRI to the neck: There are neck hernias that do compress a lot of areas where certain nerves come by!
The neck surgeon? He said my neck is not for surgery, took 100 euros and directed me to an ENT for my T.
Of course, he does not have a clue about T, perhaps most neck/head surgeons don't.

-Also: An artery of AICA compresses the acoustic nerve giving sings of microvascular compresion syndrome in the T ear, which of course may cause tinnitus.

-Now the bad coincidence or real cause? A possible acoustic trauma by a loud alarm that trigered my tinnitus. Now I did have some lower volume T before the a/t, but I did not have hyperacusis and sound distortion. And of course now the T is much much stronger and constant.

Now what can one do with all these? Where can I go when all doctors are not willing to even speculate on this? They say, ah, tinnitus: There is no solution for it, we do not know what causes it and learn to live with it.
The problem is that many simply cannot stand this condition, so there suggestion is totally useless.

Imagine there is a surgery that totally corrects this and there are doctors that can perform it.
Is it really that hard to find out?

 

[markoana]

Ok here is my situation:

-My T is a high pitch, unilatera sound.

-When I open my mouth wide, the T increases VERY much, really noticeable only from the one side, naturally.

-Also, when I walk down the stairs, (or walking) there is a zip like sound that comes out possibly of neck movement/spine compression.

-Similar sounds I get when turning the neck. All sudden zips (the walking down the stair lasts a bit more and is more intense, like scratching!).

-I checked via MRI to the neck: There are neck hernias that do compress a lot of areas where certain nerves come by!
The neck surgeon? He said my neck is not for surgery, took 100 euros and directed me to an ENT for my T.
Of course, he does not have a clue about T, perhaps most neck/head surgeons don't.

-Also: An artery of AICA compresses the acoustic nerve giving sings of microvascular compresion syndrome in the T ear, which of course may cause tinnitus.

-Now the bad coincidence or real cause? A possible acoustic trauma by a loud alarm that trigered my tinnitus. Now I did have some lower volume T before the a/t, but I did not have hyperacusis and sound distortion. And of course now the T is much much stronger and constant.

Now what can one do with all these? Where can I go when all doctors are not willing to even speculate on this? They say, ah, tinnitus: There is no solution for it, we do not know what causes it and learn to live with it.
The problem is that many simply cannot stand this condition, so there suggestion is totally useless.

Imagine there is a surgery that totally corrects this and there are doctors that can perform it.
Is it really that hard to find out?

only known surgery... https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hifu-high-intensity-focused-ultrasound-surgery.276/

 

[skoupidis]

only known surgery... https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hifu-high-intensity-focused-ultrasound-surgery.276/

To simply put it, no it is not the only one, not for what we talk about here.

 

[linearb]

yeah, HIFU has nothing to do with this at all. Don't go digging around in the brain trying to solve a neck problem...

 

[Nucleo]

-Now the bad coincidence or real cause? A possible acoustic trauma by a loud alarm that trigered my tinnitus. Now I did have some lower volume T before the a/t, but I did not have hyperacusis and sound distortion. And of course now the T is much much stronger and constant.

So you had tinnitus already before the sound alarm event? Sound distortion and hyperacusis following the sound exposure seems like inner damage is the likely cause.

Of course the mvc could also have damaged the auditory nerve.

If you haven't done so already I would do a complete audiological exam, insisting on getting otoacoustic emission tests done as well (especially distortion product otoacoustic emissions). If the sound distortion is the result of the inner ear sending wrong signals then it will probably show on these tests.

If they come back negative, then the mvc becomes the main suspect.

 

[skoupidis]

So you had tinnitus already before the sound alarm event? Sound distortion and hyperacusis following the sound exposure seems like inner damage is the likely cause.

Of course the mvc could also have damaged the auditory nerve.

If you haven't done so already I would do a complete audiological exam, insisting on getting otoacoustic emission tests done as well (especially distortion product otoacoustic emissions). If the sound distortion is the result of the inner ear sending wrong signals then it will probably show on these tests.

If they come back negative, then the mvc becomes the main suspect.

Thanks for the input. I already did OEMS but I do not think it was any special kind (distortion product?). The doc said it is cochlea damage. ABR said was good. But another doc said ABR may suggest mvc...

We need to have real doctors that aim to treat us, not just take our money. And for tinnitus, this may simply not exist yet.

 

[GreggVA]

(First post) I had spinal fusion C7-T1 and came out of surgery with T. I was so grateful that I was out of pain and could use my hand again that it overshadowed the T and it was not bad. I told the neurosurgeon and he acted surprised but it does not appear to be that uncommon. I am having some increased levels lately that brought me here today. Lots of great info - thanks to all the contributors!

 

[skoupidis]

(First post) I had spinal fusion C7-T1 and came out of surgery with T. I was so grateful that I was out of pain and could use my hand again that it overshadowed the T and it was not bad. I told the neurosurgeon and he acted surprised but it does not appear to be that uncommon. I am having some increased levels lately that brought me here today. Lots of great info - thanks to all the contributors!

Welcome to the forum.
So, hoping to correct T with neck surgery is risky, it may cause more T... That is why they (ENTs) choose to say there is an ongoing research for it but no results yet. Of course, they may have just read it in Wikipedia...

 

[Luca]

Since I got T after a neck injury I made inquiries but I was told there is nothing to be done. I don't have pain or anything, but I did get "car accident?" from two different x-ray docs. My cervical spine is really streteched out. (forgot the medical term for it). +kyphosis c3-c4 or sth.

 

[MichaelThompson]

Not only patients, but doctors also consider cervical pain a complex disorder to diagnose. It is difficult to determine the exact cause of cervical pain, thus prescribing successful treatment plan is quite frustrating for doctors. As far as TMJ (temporomandibular joint) concern, it is one of the most active joint in the body that functions while chewing, talking, yawning, snoring etc. The jaw, cervical spine, and teeth's alignment are integrally related are usually lead to TMJ disorder.

 

[skoupidis]

Since I got T after a neck injury I made inquiries but I was told there is nothing to be done. I don't have pain or anything, but I did get "car accident?" from two different x-ray docs. My cervical spine is really streteched out. (forgot the medical term for it). +kyphosis c3-c4 or sth.

Same here. A "car accident" stretched spine. It is responsible for many problems, why not Tinnitus among them?

 

[lost horizons]

Mine started four days after a car accident. I think I am going to try massage and/chiropractor.