Even with Severe OCD, Tinnitus Is Beatable

[MatthijsDJ]

I have posted already one or two success stories before. On moments that I wished I was there, but it turned out to be just a few good days. Or maybe I was just lying to myself...

But now as I'm in this almost 9 years and being stable for almost 2 and a half years, it's time for the final success story.

It all started somewhere in 2014, I was living a happy life and just learned that my wife was pregnant and we both got us some new cars (well second-hand, but new for us ;-)). But things started to go very bad quickly.

It all started with me having some troubles with my ears after driving in my new car, I felt a weird sort of pressure in both my ears and sound and voices were sounding sort of distorted for an hour or so after I left my car. Luckily, I was an early bird, so things were sounding normal when most of my colleagues started to arrive.

I'm always having sort of a cold, so I blamed that at first. But after a week or two, the sound that my car made was hurting my ears. From that moment on, I became obsessed with the sound of my car. I installed apps that could measure sound levels to rule out that the sound wasn't too loud... I went to our dealer, they heard also something but even after stripping my car (for almost no money... thanks Dealer!) nothing obvious was found.

As I still was working every weekday I was tortured almost daily with weird feelings in my ear and pain. Weekends became holy because my ears got some rest and my mind as well.

So I had to find a solution, buying a new car was not the solution because I started to have the same issue in other cars. So I decided to just put the volume of the radio up to a level that was blocking the sound the car was making. Of course checked with some apps whether the sound levels were still in the safe region. This helped against the pain... However, the weird feelings in my ears stayed.

And then, two weeks later... I arrived at the office which I was working and I heard 'beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep'. At first I was not worried... but when the beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep was still there in the afternoon, I got some concerns. Because I had heard of this thing called tinnitus and the agony that some people are in from it.

Since then the beep didn't left and I became depressed and didn't want to live anymore, I ended up in the psych ward and got a very good psychiatrist assigned to me. We quickly found out that the tinnitus wasn't the real issue. The way I dealt with tinnitus was the issue, plus some other mental issue. I had a shitload of obsessions and my mind was playing very disturbing 'movies' all the time. The psychiatrist said: "You sir, has OCD. So take this pill and things will become better". Stupid me refused the pill because it was a TCA class antidepressant and via Doctor Google I learned that they are very bad for tinnitus, so after a week I went home with a prescription for Mirtazapine which I already took because I learned from Tinnitus Talk that it helps with sleep.

Skip 9 weeks and we found out that it does help with sleep but did nothing for OCD... So after trying to kill myself I ended up again in the psych ward. Same psychiatrist, same story, only this time I decided to take the magic pill called Clomipramine. And within a week or four, my obsessions faded away, as did the obsession for tinnitus, and I finally started to habituate to the tinnitus. Within a month or two, the tinnitus was loud as hell but most of the time I didn't give a shit about it.

But I was not there yet. Due to some issues with the level of medication in my blood, I had a few setbacks where tinnitus and other obsessions became an issue again.

However, the last fallback resulted in something very positive. I got a very good psychologist assigned to me and together we made a plan on the things I should work on. Because when I started my medication, things became so good that it was difficult to come up with good therapy.

I basically set one goal for me, learn to deal with my obsessions, including tinnitus. It was time to face them and stand-up against them, not pushing them away and instead of running away just stand still and say: "F*ck off!".

I told her about the habituation theory and also made the comparison with the training one can get to get rid of their arachnophobia. Apparently there is a type of therapy that does more or less what I wanted. It is called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. This therapy fixed me. I learned to accept my obsessions and my tinnitus. I still can have bad days or even weeks, but the things I learned during therapy makes it quite easy to get through those days.

Hmmm, this was more text that I planned to write. So a small TL;DR:

It's not tinnitus that is your issue (most of the time at least) but really it is your reaction to it. In my case tinnitus was not even the issue at all. It was my OCD that was the issue. When my OCD got managed by medication but also equally importantly by therapy, I was able to achieve the magic habituation. It stills helps me on those days that the tinnitus is loud and claiming some attention. I'm just able to calm myself down and say: "Hey tinnitus, you are loud today! What about watching this movie I want to watch together!"

I even make fun of my mild hyperacusis, cars still sound like a Boeing 747 to me, so I just imagine that I'm not driving a simple Ford Fiesta but taking off in a 747 ;-)

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

being stable for almost 2 and a half years

And this is the reason why you can make this post

It's not tinnitus that is your issue (most of the time at least) but really it is your reaction to it.

This generally applies to mild, stable tinnitus (hear it in quiet room), or can easily be masked.

I even make fun of my mild hyperacusis

Hyperacusis is nothing to be laughed about, especially severe/catastrophic hyperacusis or noxacusis. As I see yours is stable/mild as well.

Trust me, if you have catastrophic tinnitus and hyperacusis that gets worse from everything (or for no reason at all), having OCD and "worrying about it" is the absolute least of your worries. I know because I was in your situation, had moderate tinnitus (I would even say severe, I could hear it clearly over the shower or on the freeway). I even got back to normal life after a couple weeks of panicking. I used to think mine was loud/bad, oh how I was wrong.

I generally have no issue with positivity, but telling someone with severe/catastrophic unstable tinnitus that they can "beat tinnitus" because it's just their "reaction" is just plain wrong. It's this mentality that has gaslit severe sufferers and set back tinnitus research by many decades (thanks Jastreboff).

Most people who are mild enough to "beat tinnitus" (or mask it with breathing lol) with stuff like hypnosis or meditation or mindfulness/positivity don't hang around on tinnitus forums, just a heads up.

Cheers

 

[MindOverMatter]

Thanks for sharing your story @MatthijsDJ - no matter what others may think of it.

Acceptance is key factor with many obstacles in life.

 

[MatthijsDJ]

And this is the reason why you can make this post

This generally applies to mild, stable tinnitus (hear it in quiet room), or can easily be masked.

Hyperacusis is nothing to be laughed about, especially severe/catastrophic hyperacusis or noxacusis. As I see yours is stable/mild as well.

Trust me, if you have catastrophic tinnitus and hyperacusis that gets worse from everything (or for no reason at all), having OCD and "worrying about it" is the absolute least of your worries. I know because I was in your situation, had moderate tinnitus (I would even say severe, I could hear it clearly over the shower or on the freeway). I even got back to normal life after a couple weeks of panicking. I used to think mine was loud/bad, oh how I was wrong.

I generally have no issue with positivity, but telling someone with severe/catastrophic unstable tinnitus that they can "beat tinnitus" because it's just their "reaction" is just plain wrong. It's this mentality that has gaslit severe sufferers and set back tinnitus research by many decades (thanks Jastreboff).

Most people who are mild enough to "beat tinnitus" (or mask it with breathing lol) with stuff like hypnosis or meditation or mindfulness/positivity don't hang around on tinnitus forums, just a heads up.

Cheers

That is why I made the remark "most of the time", my tinnitus is fluctuating all the time, it can be very loud and almost nothing can mask it. I realize that if it was like this all the time that things would be much harder to deal with.

I also realize that psychological therapy is the magic bullet, but it can really help people who struggling. However, it won't help everyone. I will check later if I can change the 'it's your reaction' part a bit to make it clear that it isn't true for all of us.

However, I have also some issues with the negativity around psychological therapy. At the moment cures are around the corner... But 8 years ago that wasn't the case... The only thing they could do for us chronic tinnitus sufferers was saying: "Just learn to live with it...". So psychological therapy had his place and still has it as long as there isn't a fix for everyone.

 

[MatthijsDJ]

Thanks for sharing your story @MatthijsDJ - no matter what others may think of it.

Acceptance is key factor with many obstacles in life.

It is, learning how to accept things made my life much easier.

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

That is why I made the remark "most of the time", my tinnitus is fluctuating all the time, it can be very loud and almost nothing can mask it. I realize that if it was like this all the time that things would be much harder to deal with.

I also realize that psychological therapy is the magic bullet, but it can really help people who struggling. However, it won't help everyone. I will check later if I can change the 'it's your reaction' part a bit to make it clear that it isn't true for all of us.

However, I have also some issues with the negativity around psychological therapy. At the moment cures are around the corner... But 8 years ago that wasn't the case... The only thing they could do for us chronic tinnitus sufferers was saying: "Just learn to live with it...". So psychological therapy had his place and still has it as long as there isn't a fix for everyone.

Well I wouldn't exactly say cures are around the corner, but possible treatments are definitely closer than 8 years ago.

I agree that your post is valid for people with mild/moderate stable cases.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

The Loyal Habituationist Dave,
Felt His Ego Implode And Then Cave;
When The Loudness Was Such,
That His Brain Said "Too Much";
And Made Him Prepare For The Grave.

 

[makeyourownluck]

Thanks for sharing your personal account, highlighting what helped you specifically.

I'm sure it will help many other people with severe OCD.

 

[InNeedOfHelp]

Happy to hear you are doing better. Still any reactivity to sounds? Can you go out for dinner, take plane flights for holidays?

Bedankt!

 

[MatthijsDJ]

Well I wouldn't exactly say cures are around the corner, but possible treatments are definitely closer than 8 years ago.

I agree that your post is valid for people with mild/moderate stable cases.

Well I know people who are dealing quite well with tinnitus that is even louder than the sirens of a firetruck. The only thing is that people, who say psychological therapy or TRT can cure tinnitus, are wrong.

It's learning to deal with it, and most of us can do that. However, if you are having some mental issues (like me) or your tinnitus is loud as f*ck, some counseling can't harm.

The only f*cked thing here in The Netherlands is that tinnitus alone is not reason enough to get psychological help from the generic mental healthcare whilst any GOOD psychologist/psychiatrist can help you with it.

 

[MatthijsDJ]

Happy to hear you are doing better. Still any reactivity to sounds? Can you go out for dinner, take plane flights for holidays?

Bedankt!

Yes I even went to rave parties. On one of them the sound seemed not to be that loud. So I kept my ear protection in my pockets. My tinnitus reacted quite pissed and decided to be louder than the music. Luckily it went back to normal levels after I put in the ear protection.

 

[BuzzyBee]

That is why I made the remark "most of the time", my tinnitus is fluctuating all the time, it can be very loud and almost nothing can mask it. I realize that if it was like this all the time that things would be much harder to deal with.

Thanks for clarifying that you still have bad days. I liked your post because it was realistic. You've learned to accept it and still enjoy life (doesn't mean you have to like it) and you power through the bad days. That's as much as a lot of us can ask for and fits with so many stories from people who say they have loud tinnitus but it doesn't ruin their life.

I also appreciate that you're not some bro who had tinnitus for 2 months and that it got better because of the laundry list of things you did to make it go away. Those are the worst. Thanks for updating and know that some of us appreciated it.

 

[SonOfUhtred]

And this is the reason why you can make this post

This generally applies to mild, stable tinnitus (hear it in quiet room), or can easily be masked.

Hyperacusis is nothing to be laughed about, especially severe/catastrophic hyperacusis or noxacusis. As I see yours is stable/mild as well.

Trust me, if you have catastrophic tinnitus and hyperacusis that gets worse from everything (or for no reason at all), having OCD and "worrying about it" is the absolute least of your worries. I know because I was in your situation, had moderate tinnitus (I would even say severe, I could hear it clearly over the shower or on the freeway). I even got back to normal life after a couple weeks of panicking. I used to think mine was loud/bad, oh how I was wrong.

I generally have no issue with positivity, but telling someone with severe/catastrophic unstable tinnitus that they can "beat tinnitus" because it's just their "reaction" is just plain wrong. It's this mentality that has gaslit severe sufferers and set back tinnitus research by many decades (thanks Jastreboff).

Most people who are mild enough to "beat tinnitus" (or mask it with breathing lol) with stuff like hypnosis or meditation or mindfulness/positivity don't hang around on tinnitus forums, just a heads up.

Cheers

I have noticed you have a constant tendency to come on to any kind of 'positive' post just to bring your negativity to it. You cannot comprehend the fact that people with very bad tinnitus can actually get to a point where they can enjoy their life again. You also cannot comprehend that anyone could possibly have worse tinnitus than you. Just because you cannot get to grip with yours it doesn't mean that others can't. I suggest you keep your negativity to maybe your own posts or the posts that match the same kind of views you have. OP has come on here to try and bring people up. I don't need a run down of how bad your tinnitus is by the way as I have seen it on another post.

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

dealing quite well with tinnitus that is even louder than the sirens of a firetruck

Quite possible, if stable. But I can say with absolute certainty that people with tinnitus truly without exaggeration as loud as this wouldn't be able to deal with it lol.

I have noticed you have a constant tendency to come on to any kind of 'positive' post just to bring your negativity to it. You cannot comprehend the fact that people with very bad tinnitus can actually get to a point where they can enjoy their life again. You also cannot comprehend that anyone could possibly have worse tinnitus than you. Just because you cannot get to grip with yours it doesn't mean that others can't. I suggest you keep your negativity to maybe your own posts or the posts that match the same kind of views you have. OP has come on here to try and bring people up. I don't need a run down of how bad your tinnitus is by the way as I have seen it on another post.

Check my first reply here. I'm not negative everywhere lol.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/656618/

Yeah from I've seen (at least on this forum) the only people with worse tinnitus than me are @Chinmoku, @DocTors_94 and some others.

Who said I haven't gotten a grip of mine? If I wouldn't have gotten a grip I'd be dead right now.

People spewing that they "beat tinnitus" and that they can live life with no limitations has a horrible effect on people with reactive / catastrophic tinnitus by making others believe that tinnitus isn't a big deal. Positivity isn't always good.

Again, someone whose tinnitus doesn't permanently spike and increase in volume/tones from a noise as quiet as crinkling a bag or chewing food (currently at about 20 tones, volume without exaggeration around 65-70 dB) has no right to tell me that it's my fault for "not being able to get a grip". And yes, I try to somewhat enjoy life as much as I can, because I stabilized a bit and don't spike from nonexistent noise anymore. People without stability don't have that luxury.

 

[makeyourownluck]

I must admit @AnthonyMcDonald, some of your posts make me want to tear my hair out. Although I do appreciate some of your more recent posts.

I understand that stable tinnitus is undoubtedly easier to cope with, but a lot of your posts come across insulting. To say that you got severe stable tinnitus and resumed normal life in a few weeks just seems completely unrealistic. You make it seem like it's a piece of cake, and it's definitely not. People may have other issues like severe OCD that make habituation difficult.

This poor guy even tried to account for severe sufferers by saying 'most of the time', and he defined his hyperacusis as mild.

People spewing that they "beat tinnitus" and that they can live life with no limitations has a horrible effect on people with reactive / catastrophic tinnitus by making others believe that tinnitus isn't a big deal.

As with any condition there are stages. I have lupus with no organ involvement. My friend is partially blind, has kidney failure and intermittently uses a wheelchair (although she looks completely 'healthy' when she's not in a flair). Same disease, different severities. If I was able to cope with my nerve and joint pain better by utilising ACT strategies, why would I not tell other sufferers that it helped me overcome lupus? My friend wouldn't mind, it has no bearing on the severity of her condition.

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand why this is such a prevalent argument in the tinnitus community. No other chronic illness really have this argument, and let's face it, if the meds don't work, most are treated similarly: ADs, physio, psychotherapy, mindfulness, etc.

 

[Damocles]

People spewing that they "beat tinnitus" and that they can live life with no limitations has a horrible effect on people with reactive / catastrophic tinnitus by making others believe that tinnitus isn't a big deal.

As with any condition there are stages. I have lupus with no organ involvement. My friend is partially blind, has kidney failure and intermittently uses a wheelchair (although she looks completely 'healthy' when she's not in a flair). Same disease, different severities. If I was able to cope with my nerve and joint pain better by utilising ACT strategies, why would I not tell other sufferers that it helped me overcome lupus?

Because CBT, nor any other form of psychological therapy, is capable of rectifying an autoimmune condition; therefore you would not have "overcome" Lupus.

My friend wouldn't mind, it has no bearing on the severity of her condition.

If we lived in a world where people were dumb enough to believe an autoimmune condition could be fixed by thinking happy thoughts, then yes, this would negatively affect your friend's prognosis.

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand why this is such a prevalent argument in the tinnitus community.

Because severe tinnitus is frequently made out to be something that doesn't cripple and/or kill the majority of people it afflicts. Which is a massive part of the reason lupus generated 65 times more in funding in the US, than tinnitus did, over the last 20 years.

No other chronic illness really have this argument,

Most other chronic illnesses are detectable (visible/testable) and measurable in their severity.

and let's face it, if the meds don't work, most are treated similarly: ADs, physio, psychotherapy, mindfulness, etc.

Please provide a list of chronic physical illnesses that are effectively treated via these methods.

 

[MatthijsDJ]

Quite possible, if stable. But I can say with absolute certainty that people with tinnitus truly without exaggeration as loud as this wouldn't be able to deal with it lol.

Check my first reply here. I'm not negative everywhere lol.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/656618/

Yeah from I've seen (at least on this forum) the only people with worse tinnitus than me are @Chinmoku, @DocTors_94 and some others.

Who said I haven't gotten a grip of mine? If I wouldn't have gotten a grip I'd be dead right now.

People spewing that they "beat tinnitus" and that they can live life with no limitations has a horrible effect on people with reactive / catastrophic tinnitus by making others believe that tinnitus isn't a big deal. Positivity isn't always good.

Again, someone whose tinnitus doesn't permanently spike and increase in volume/tones from a noise as quiet as crinkling a bag or chewing food (currently at about 20 tones, volume without exaggeration around 65-70 dB) has no right to tell me that it's my fault for "not being able to get a grip". And yes, I try to somewhat enjoy life as much as I can, because I stabilized a bit and don't spike from nonexistent noise anymore. People without stability don't have that luxury.

There is some miscommunication going on here. My tinnitus is not stable, my OCD is ;-) My OCD was delaying my ability to cope with tinnitus. However I realized that tinnitus got an obsession of itself. Learning how to cope with (far more distressing) obsessive thoughts/images I knew that I had to apply the same towards my obsession for tinnitus.

Did it make my tinnitus better? Not at all. Did it make my life much easier? Yes.

 

[MatthijsDJ]

Because CBT, nor any other form of psychological therapy, is capable of rectifying an autoimmune condition; therefore you would not have "overcome" Lupus.

If we lived in a world where people were dumb enough to believe an autoimmune condition could be fixed by thinking happy thoughts, then yes, this would negatively affect your friend's prognosis.

Because severe tinnitus is frequently made out to be something that doesn't cripple and/or kill the majority of people it afflicts. Which is a massive part of the reason lupus generated 65 times more in funding in the US, than tinnitus did, over the last 20 years.

Most other chronic illnesses are detectable (visible/testable) and measurable in their severity.

Please provide a list of chronic physical illnesses that are effectively treated via these methods.

I think you are missing the point that these methods aren't cures, but might make your ability to deal with shitshows like tinnitus much better. And sometimes that can feel like a cure for some.

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

normal life in a few weeks just seems completely unrealistic.

I suffered through daily suicidal tendencies, every second of every day all I thought about was death for an entire year and have 2 suicide attempts under my belt. What are you talking about "a few weeks"? Why have you discarded the entire past year I've spent fighting death and suffering? I only stated that my stability has improved in the past months and let me breathe a little. I still spike many times a week, but compared to hundreds of permanent spikes a day it is better.

Who said I resumed a normal life? My life is severely limited and I hardly go outside at all. I may allow myself more things like having friends visit me and working again, but my life is definitely not "normal".

 

[makeyourownluck]

I know because I was in your situation, had moderate tinnitus (I would even say severe, I could hear it clearly over the shower or on the freeway). I even got back to normal life after a couple weeks of panicking.

I was talking about this comment. Not trying to offend you @AnthonyMcDonald or minimise your suffering. Genuinely just trying to understand why this issue of severity is so specific to tinnitus.

 

[Damocles]

I think you are missing the point that these methods aren't cures, but might make your ability to deal with shitshows like tinnitus much better. And sometimes that can feel like a cure for some.

I'm not missing any point. I've seen this same argument repeat itself for over a decade now.

So without getting caught in the undertow myself, allow me to just lay down THE FACTS™:

• No psychological therapy is capable of treating any physical illness.
• Tinnitus is a physical illness.
• If you are coping better with your tinnitus now than when it started, this is as a result of your brain adjusting to it over time.
• There is already a word for this; it is called Habituation, and most of us will achieve it eventually (whether we employ psychological therapies or not).
• There is a ceiling with regards to what habituation can accomplish. As has already been pointed out: at a certain severity, the condition can become too disabling for any individual to adjust to.
• Every one of us predisposed to tinnitus is capable of reaching that severity, no matter where we are on the litmus scale at this point in time.

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

I was talking about this comment. Not trying to offend you @AnthonyMcDonald or minimise your suffering. Genuinely just trying to understand why this issue of severity is so specific to tinnitus.

This was before my catastrophic worsening and insane reactivity. And it took about 2 months for me to calm down. Granted I never had anxiety issues previously, so it may have been easier for me.

 

[MatthijsDJ]

I'm not missing any point. I've seen this same argument repeat itself for over a decade now.

So without getting caught in the undertow myself, allow me to just lay down THE FACTS™:

• No psychological therapy is capable of treating any physical illness.
• Tinnitus is a physical illness.
• If you are coping better with your tinnitus now than when it started, this is as a result of your brain adjusting to it over time.
• There is already a word for this; it is called Habituation, and most of us will achieve it eventually (whether we employ psychological therapies or not).
• There is a ceiling with regards to what habituation can accomplish. As has already been pointed out: at a certain severity, the condition can become too disabling for any individual to adjust to.
• Every one of us predisposed to tinnitus is capable of reaching that severity, no matter where we are on the litmus scale at this point in time.

Well, a lot of mental issues have a physical root cause. So one can argue that psychological therapy has never cured a physical illness. Mindfulness, for example, has shown the same "changes" in the brain as antidepressants do. However, like meds, it's not working for everyone. For me mindfulness made me more aware but did nothing for the depression and OCD. Meds did wonders in my case.

Also the habituation process is completely explainable by neurologists or neuropsychology. So, yes, psychological therapy can potentially speed up the habituation process.

People who ignore that and tell new sufferers that psychological therapy won't help are like the antivaxx movement. Declining science etc.

 

[makeyourownluck]

@Damocles, since you are addressing me directly, I assume I am allowed to talk to you now.

As @MatthijsDJ suggested, you seem to have missed our point. I did not say that ACT strategies would cure Lupus, but it may help some sufferers to overcome the pain, and any negative thinking patterns associated with that pain, which in my experience is half the battle. But yes, I do agree, ACT strategies do not CURE Lupus, tinnitus, or any other physical condition, but that's not really what I said, was it?

I would liken a Lupus 'flair' to a tinnitus 'spike', and it's very difficult to stay afloat mentally. The life you had disappears, and you are left a shell of your former self. Thoughts such as, 'if I'm this bad now, what will I be like when I'm 60" are all encompassing, and you feel like you will trapped in a nightmare. I have actually tried ACT and it didn't work for me, but I have heard other sufferers say it helped them, and I'm glad it did, why would I have any issue with them saying that it helped them? At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to tell their story - support forums are not just for severe sufferers, mild cases also need support sometimes, and who are we to judge anyone else's suffering.

Also, there are many chronic conditions that are invisible. Most of the time no cause is found for neuropathy; chronic migraines and cluster headaches can feel like someone is literally hitting the back of your eye with an ice pick; fibromyalgia; etc. I'm 5ft 7, 120 pounds and I look physically fit, nobody would ever think I suffer from any condition, and yet here I am, Lupus, tinnitus, CVI, and a few other less bothersome conditions. If you think tinnitus is the only invisible condition where you are gaslight by doctors then you are wrong. It takes on average 7 years to get an autoimmune diagnosis, I was told all my symptoms were health anxiety.

I actually agree that ADs, physio, psychotherapy, mindfulness, etc, seem to be a coverall for all chronic conditions that do not respond to medication, but it can help some people, like OP. We should aim to keep things positive for the newcomer's who use the success section to get through a very emotionally difficult time. Most cases end up being mild/milder eventually, and the suicidal thoughts pass for the vast majority. These are simply facts, and do not speak directly to, or have any bearing on, the severity of your own particular case.

On a side note, you seem to have an unhealthy fixation on other people being, or potentially being, 'dumb'. It's weird.

 

[Damocles]

Well, a lot of mental issues have a physical root cause. So one can argue that psychological therapy has never cured a physical illness. Mindfulness, for example, has shown the same "changes" in the brain as antidepressants do. However, like meds, it's not working for everyone. For me mindfulness made me more aware but did nothing for the depression and OCD. Meds did wonders in my case.

Also the habituation process is completely explainable by neurologists or neuropsychology. So, yes, psychological therapy can potentially speed up the habituation process.

Listen, if psychotherapy has helped you come to terms with your predicament; that you are stuck with a non-treatable, horrendous condition, the crippling effect of which is only truly recognised by other sufferers, then that is great and I'm real happy for you. But:

1) You did not beat tinnitus. You still have it, and are subject to the increased vulnerability and susceptibility of worsening, that comes with it (like the rest of us).

2) You could have saved yourself a lot of time, travel, and possibly money (I don't know what the situation is for Dutch citizens having to pay for their own healthcare) just by ordering yourself a bottle of Silencil, Synapse XT, Clarisil Pro, Volumil, or Quietum PLUS. Because your ACT is no better than a placebo.

Disagree? Fine, just don't link me the Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center paper from 2015. I've already read it, and not only is it flawed in its reporting that mindfulness exercises were any different than fake mindfulness exercises for pain reduction, in comparison with the findings by the Universities of Sydney, Queensland and Melbourne's ongoing joint study; but Fadel Zeidan is also a mindfulness shill - no different than Jastreboff - siphoning funding out of legitimate medicinal research and into his own pseudo-scientific garbage studies.

Thankfully many prominent psychologists and neuroscientists are currently nonplussed by the quality of the data being used to back up the hype behind mindfulness; thus I predict that in the future there will be several far more credible studies that prove it, and other psychological therapies to be no more effective than an unbranded tube of smarties, for pain management/relief.

People who ignore that and tell new sufferers that psychological therapy won't help are like the antivaxx movement. Declining science etc.

This is such a vague and off-topic comment that I wouldn't even know where to begin.

 

[Damocles]

@Damocles, since you are addressing me directly, I assume I am allowed to talk to you now.

I didn't address anyone, just answered a series of underwhelming questions. (Who posed them was an irrelevance to me).

As @MatthijsDJ suggested, you seem to have missed our point.

No I think it's my point that's been missed, and the points of many others who have been blasting this pseudo-scientific nonsense out of the water for long before those who have had tinnitus no longer than a year ever arrived, or even knew what tinnitus was.

I did not say that ACT strategies would cure Lupus, but it may help some sufferers to overcome the pain, and any negative thinking patterns associated with that pain, which in my experience is half the battle.
But yes, I do agree, ACT strategies do not CURE Lupus, tinnitus, or any other physical condition, but that's not really what I said, was it?

I believe the words were "overcome Lupus". Psychological therapies do not rid you of physical conditions, therefore you cannot use psychological therapies to overcome them.

But then, perhaps we just have a difference of opinion where the definition of "overcome" is concerned, although if that's the case, then I'd say yours leaves a lot to be desired.

I have actually tried ACT and it didn't work for me, but I have heard other sufferers say it helped them, and I'm glad it did, why would I have any issue with them saying that it helped them?

You want medicinal research to find a cure for an illness that can be beaten by psychotherapy?

Makes perfect sense.

*points to thread title*

At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to tell their story - support forums are not just for severe sufferers,

Mild/moderate sufferers want a cure.

Severe sufferers need a cure.

Try to work out: a) the difference. b) which one takes priority (where something like representation is concerned).

mild cases also need support sometimes, and who are we to judge anyone else's suffering.

Perhaps we just (once again) have a difference of opinion where the definition of "severe" and "severity" are concerned, although if that's the case, thank god you do not (I'm assuming) work in medicine. (I'm trying to picture an A&E where they see people in order of distress rather than actual physiological trauma and threat to life... seeing a lot of drunks on the wards).

Also, there are many chronic conditions that are invisible.

If any of these other invisible chronic illnesses are wrecking people's lives; driving them to try dangerous experimental treatments, scam treatments, and suicide, then their communities have my full support in being outraged when medical science and fellow sufferers downplay their plight and suggest they can be overcome with meditation.

I actually agree that ADs, physio, psychotherapy, mindfulness, etc, seem to be a coverall for all chronic conditions that do not respond to medication, but it can help some people, like OP.

There is no credible evidence that any of these - except physiotherapy; which is a legitimate physical therapy (not sure why you're lumping it in with the other pseudo-medicine) - are any better than a placebo.

We should aim to keep things positive for the newcomer's who use the success section to get through a very emotionally difficult time. Most cases end up being mild/milder eventually, and the suicidal thoughts pass for the vast majority. These are simply facts, and do not speak directly to, or have any bearing on, the severity of your own particular case.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/656686/

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/656839/

On a side note, you seem to have an unhealthy fixation on other people being, or potentially being, 'dumb'. It's weird.

Just one post before you made an off-topic, personal comment. *slow clap*

 

[makeyourownluck]

@Damocles, I'm fed up having to read and reply to your posts that change argument over the course of time. First tinnitus is the only invisible disease where severity cannot be detected, next you support all people with invisible diseases? You didn't even recognise their existent a few hours ago. A lot of your argument is about the use of certain words, you take what people are saying, and twist it to make it mean something else.

Anytime you overstep the mark and someone responds to you highlighting how your thinking is wrong, you just change your argument to sound more reasonable. You cannot be wrong.

OP has just came on here to help others who are suffering, you have come on here to chastise him, why?! His testimony is not stopping people from finding a cure, what's stopping people find a cure is the complexity of tinnitus, and the fact the most cases are eventually mild. There are many diseases that cause a high death rate, severe suffering, and that cannot be avoided, which are still underfunded with no real treatment.

I think the worst thing about tinnitus is that for the vast majority it is avoidable. The lack of awareness about hearing protection is shocking, and more focus should be put on preventing it from even happening in the first place.

Also commenting on your incessant need to suggest others are dumb is appropriate as you have alluded to it yet again in your previous post. Give me a break.

 

[MatthijsDJ]

Listen, if psychotherapy has helped you come to terms with your predicament; that you are stuck with a non-treatable, horrendous condition, the crippling effect of which is only truly recognised by other sufferers, then that is great and I'm real happy for you. But:

1) You did not beat tinnitus. You still have it, and are subject to the increased vulnerability and susceptibility of worsening, that comes with it (like the rest of us).

Tinnitus had a big impact on my life and thoughts, now it's just a minor issue. So yeah, I did beat tinnitus. The risk that it's getting louder is not on my mind regularly. I only take care that in some situations I protect my ears, like normal people should do as well. I don't even check anymore if tinnitus is on the list of side effects medications that I use... I just will see...

2) You could have saved yourself a lot of time, travel, and possibly money (I don't know what the situation is for Dutch citizens having to pay for their own healthcare) just by ordering yourself a bottle of Silencil, Synapse XT, Clarisil Pro, Volumil, or Quietum PLUS. Because your ACT is no better than a placebo.

Wow, are you a Scientologist or something? Your view on psychological therapy is at least the same as those idiots. There is such a good deal of scientific evidence that shows the benefits of psychological therapy for chronic pain and conditions like tinnitus. Maybe not that much on ACT yet because it's the latest iteration of CBT.

However, I agree on the mindfulness part. That won't work without the addition of a CBT based therapy. It didn't help my OCD, depression or tinnitus, but I had some noticeable other benefits.

Disagree? Fine, just don't link me the Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center paper from 2015. I've already read it, and not only is it flawed in its reporting that mindfulness exercises were any different than fake mindfulness exercises for pain reduction, in comparison with the findings by the Universities of Sydney, Queensland and Melbourne's ongoing joint study; but Fadel Zeidan is also a mindfulness shill - no different than Jastreboff - siphoning funding out of legitimate medicinal research and into his own pseudo-scientific garbage studies.

Thankfully many prominent psychologists and neuroscientists are currently nonplussed by the quality of the data being used to back up the hype behind mindfulness; thus I predict that in the future there will be several far more credible studies that prove it, and other psychological therapies to be no more effective than an unbranded tube of smarties, for pain management/relief.

Mindfulness != psychological therapy! It might be used as an addition to CBT based therapies. But I guess you already knew that because you seem to know everything about psychological therapies, or...???

This is such a vague and off-topic comment that I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Well you are using the same tactic as them. Calling people that state contrary to you dumb and only agree with paper/research that fits your opinion... In the meanwhile ignoring all the other papers and research.

P.S. Stop being the asshole that is stealing the hope from new sufferers that there is actually something that won't cure your tinnitus, but can make your life with tinnitus acceptable again. I'm pretty clear in my OP and replies that it isn't a cure, that it won't work for everyone... But giving it a try won't harm.

I personally have issues with people like you, I started far too late with antidepressants because all the negativity you can find on the internet about them.

But hey... Antidepressants only saved my life.

 

[Johan001]

@MatthijsDJ, thanks for sharing your personal experience and congrats on getting all these health issues under control. We all have our unique ways to deal with them and you have found yours and restored your life, which is great. Goed gedaan man!