High Frequency (>4 kHz) Gaps in Hearing

[SimonRK]

I've been playing around with an online tone generator and realized some things about my hearing.

Pretty sure I can't hear above 15.4 kHz (using high quality speakers at a safe volume), which seems pretty bad at 25 years old.

When doing a frequency sweep from 1-8 kHz using speakers instead of headphones, I have A LOT of narrow dips in hearing above 4 kHz, where the tone disappears or is low and distorted (unless I up the volume) for a few (maybe around 10-30?) Hz. The gaps occur at different frequencies in each ear, so that listening with both ears at the same time makes it sound like the tone is jumping from ear to ear.

When I went to the ENT for tinnitus in 2017, I knew it was because I had abused my ears with earbuds, but it's kind of scary to listen to the damage this way. Good thing I've been very careful about protecting my ears since then despite being told my pure-tone audiogram was within the "normal range".

Does anyone else with noise damage have a similar experience, where frequency sweeps lose their "smooth" quality above 4 kHz when played slowly?

I have started to realize that I have problems following conversations, especially in noise, and that it's not normal to need subtitles for every show I watch. Maybe it's time to get my hearing tested professionally again to see if something has changed, although I suspect hearing aids would not be of any use since I hear most pure tones clearly.

 

[Tau]

I've been playing around with an online tone generator and realized some things about my hearing.

Pretty sure I can't hear above 15.4 kHz (using high quality speakers at a safe volume), which seems pretty bad at 25 years old.

When doing a frequency sweep from 1-8 kHz using speakers instead of headphones, I have A LOT of narrow dips in hearing above 4 kHz, where the tone disappears or is low and distorted (unless I up the volume) for a few (maybe around 10-30?) Hz. The gaps occur at different frequencies in each ear, so that listening with both ears at the same time makes it sound like the tone is jumping from ear to ear.

When I went to the ENT for tinnitus in 2017, I knew it was because I had abused my ears with earbuds, but it's kind of scary to listen to the damage this way. Good thing I've been very careful about protecting my ears since then despite being told my pure-tone audiogram was within the "normal range".

Does anyone else with noise damage have a similar experience, where frequency sweeps lose their "smooth" quality above 4 kHz when played slowly?

I have started to realize that I have problems following conversations, especially in noise, and that it's not normal to need subtitles for every show I watch. Maybe it's time to get my hearing tested professionally again to see if something has changed, although I suspect hearing aids would not be of any use since I hear most pure tones clearly.

I have a similar thing with small dips, the pure tone crackles a bit in those cases. One at 7.4 kHz and one at around 16 kHz. Pure tone audiogram fine, but I have nerve damage (cochlear synaptopathy) and I can't hear complex high notes in music very well. My left ear hears up to and including 16 kHz, my right ear - up to 18 kHz.

Be careful to not increase the volume too much with that tone generator, this is how I injured myself (16 kHz pure tone at 110 dB).

 

[SimonRK]

I have a similar thing with small dips, the pure tone crackles a bit in those cases. One at 7.4 kHz and one at around 16 kHz. Pure tone audiogram fine, but I have nerve damage (cochlear synaptopathy) and I can't hear complex high notes in music very well. My left ear hears up to and including 16 kHz, my right ear - up to 18 kHz.

Be careful to not increase the volume too much with that tone generator, this is how I injured myself (16 kHz pure tone at 110 dB).

Thanks for the reply. I read some of your posts, you seem to be in a lot of pain and I hope your situation improves.

You have only two dips? I have more than I can count, so my ears must be pretty effed up. My audiogram from back then was also all in the 10-20 dB range, ouch. Somehow with all that damage my tinnitus is nowhere near as bad as many people here with nice audiograms, and I've been able to live with it pretty well for the last four years. I can hear it most of the time throughout the day, over the TV etc., but I think that's because of the high frequency and not the volume.

Only just now starting to realize I have hearing troubles. Probably got a lot of nerve/synapse damage as well since it's noise exposure. My dad has the same kind of tinnitus and the same hearing troubles, and he soldiers on without complaining. That keeps me going for now.

 

[Tau]

Thanks for the reply. I read some of your posts, you seem to be in a lot of pain and I hope your situation improves.

You have only two dips? I have more than I can count, so my ears must be pretty effed up. My audiogram from back then was also all in the 10-20 dB range, ouch. Somehow with all that damage my tinnitus is nowhere near as bad as many people here with nice audiograms, and I've been able to live with it pretty well for the last four years. I can hear it most of the time throughout the day, over the TV etc., but I think that's because of the high frequency and not the volume.

Only just now starting to realize I have hearing troubles. Probably got a lot of nerve/synapse damage as well since it's noise exposure. My dad has the same kind of tinnitus and the same hearing troubles, and he soldiers on without complaining. That keeps me going for now.

Stay strong - I'm hoping regenerative medicine can help us. What kind of hearing trouble are you experiencing?

I too can hear my tinnitus noises over almost anything as they're ultra-high frequency. My lowest dip in my audiogram is about 10 dB, and that includes frequencies up to 16 kHz. Yet here I am... I actually have confirmed nerve damage (abnormal ABR results).

No one in my family has hearing problems. My parents are over 65 and have no trouble hearing in noise and their audiograms are within normal range... *Sigh*

 

[SimonRK]

Stay strong - I'm hoping regenerative medicine can help us. What kind of hearing trouble are you experiencing?

I too can hear my tinnitus noises over almost anything as they're ultra-high frequency. My lowest dip in my audiogram is about 10 dB, and that includes frequencies up to 16 kHz. Yet here I am... I actually have confirmed nerve damage (abnormal ABR results).

No one in my family has hearing problems. My parents are over 65 and have no trouble hearing in noise and their audiograms are within normal range... *Sigh*

My problems are with understanding speech, in noise especially but also in quiet conditions. I hope hearing aids will help me when I become completely unable to understand speech at 40 .

I'm a bit doubtful about regenerative medicine, but of course it's nice to have hope. I don't think it's going to happen for decades, and despite what some people around here say, I think many or most of the detached spiral ganglion neurons will be dead or not function at that point if the damage is caused by noise. But hopefully it can help future generations within the therapeutic window.

In case anyone's interested, I scoured the forum and found two people describing the same hearing issues as me when doing sine sweeps, @Tempest and @ChiGuy:

Even though this is an old thread, it's funny to see that @Mic came up with the same solution as I did when I first got my T and hearing loss. By increasing and decreasing the frequencies, I did notice the sound moving from left to right ear and there were some gaps that I didn't hear at all or only by moving my head a little (which was weird, but I guess the sound has to come at the right angle to be noticed by my damaged hair cells).

But yeah, it's absolutely possible to detect so called hidden hearing loss, ENTs are just lazy plus adding the fact that they probably just believe blindly what they're taught in school.

Anyway, I think it should be one of TinnitusTalk's missions to let people know that standard 8KHz hearing tests are pretty useless and if you pass one by flying colors, it still doesn't mean that you have a great hearing, it only means basically that you can get by with it when it comes to everyday noises.

Hi all. I was diagnosed with mild hearing loss and tinnitus 7 months ago. Yesterday, I decided to evaluate my hearing on audio notch (https://www.audionotch.com/app/tune/). I'm not quite sure it was a good idea. Afterwards, I was overwhelmed with emotions and questions. Oh well, what's done is done. As long as all these things are in my head, I just thought I would share them.

1) I checked my hearing by sweeping through the frequencies. I did not use the "slowly increase frequency button" as it moves too slow. Instead, I moved the frequency slider manually. With the app and my pc volume both at 1%, I started evaluating my hearing. I noticed nothing significant when sweeping back and forth from 0 to 3000 Hz. From about 3000 to 4000 I could not hear anything. This matched my audiogram at 30 - 35 db hearing loss bilaterally at those frequencies. So I decided to focus on this frequency range and perform some further tests. I turned up the app volume until I could barely hear the tone and swept from 3000 Hz to 4000 Hz. I found that 3500 Hz was my low point in my bilateral hearing. So if I have mild hearing loss at 3000 Hz, then I probably have moderate hearing loss at 3500 Hz.

2) I set the app volume back to 1% and swept the higher frequencies. I noticed that I have asymmetric hearing in higher frequencies. The tones in the various frequencies were either the same in both ears, higher in left ear, or higher in the right ear. As I swept through these frequencies, I had a panning effect with the sound moving from one ear to the next. What the heck!?!?!?!? This was upsetting to me. What could cause such a hearing loss pattern??? I have always suspected that something "attacked" my auditory system. I just don't know what and neither do the doctors. If my loss is noise related, I would expect a notch at 3000 to 6000 Hz. If it is age (41) / hereditary related, I would expected some symmetry. Although this little test did provide a clearer picture of my hearing, it has dragged me down mentally. My hearing is worse than my audiograms suggest. This leads me to my third point.

3) I feel like the hearing test that I performed on myself provided a better picture of my hearing than the tests administered by the audiologists. I understand that I can request for a high frequency exam. Also, I know that my self test cannot provide db levels. However, I have a better picture of my hearing landscape. Clinical audiograms will only test certain frequencies. This leaves huge gaps within the complete picture. There should be a better standard of testing. For those that have tinnitus without "hearing loss", how do doctors know that you don't have a deep and narrow notch at an un-tested frequency?? As with many of you, I feel frustrated.

All of this ultimately leads to one point.... The doctors look at my audiogram, see mild hearing loss at 3000 to 4000 Hz, and tell me, with either their mouths or their facial expressions, that my tinnitus can't be that bad.... Hahaha life can be so cruel sometimes!

I found Tempest's comment about being deaf to some frequencies when turning his head in a certain direction relative to the speaker especially interesting, as I experience the same thing with several frequencies when plugging the other ear. Maybe more volume is needed to activate hair cells in damaged areas, and there is less volume when the sound is coming from the front? Who knows.

 

[Tau]

I found Tempest's comment about being deaf to some frequencies when turning his head in a certain direction relative to the speaker especially interesting, as I experience the same thing with several frequencies when plugging the other ear. Maybe more volume is needed to activate hair cells in damaged areas, and there is less volume when the sound is coming from the front? Who knows.

I experience a similar thing, it might be a volume threshold as you said. I also experience this with my hyperacusis where some things beep at me if I turn my head, like my fridge.

 

[star-affinity]

I'm a bit doubtful about regenerative medicine, but of course it's nice to have hope. I don't think it's going to happen for decades, and despite what some people around here say, I think many or most of the detached spiral ganglion neurons will be dead or not function at that point if the damage is caused by noise. But hopefully it can help future generations within the therapeutic window.

The researchers here are hopeful – "the future looks bright".



Like you say it might take a decade or two. But also looking at how much research there's happening I think it's worth to keep the hope up.

 

[SimonRK]

Don't try this at home. Let the professionals play pure tones, or at least don't increase the volume at all when you can't hear. I didn't set it to max but I guess it was too loud anyway since my hearing above ~13 kHz is already toast.

I've been in denial about this, but since using this tone generator, my tinnitus has been extremely variable. I developed ear fullness after two weeks, which the ENT said was wax caused by earplugs. Then I developed TTTS, which was triggered by dishes and sometimes by people speaking to me. My GP said not to worry about, I was just being sensitive because of anxiety. Then I developed burning pain in my ears, and now I have full blown hyperacusis. Everything is too loud.

I was already depressed and anxious about my hearing difficulties, so everyone around me told me to just relax, and that the perceived increase in tinnitus and ear fullness was caused by my anxiety that it would get worse. Unfortunately, I believed them.

I also have the same reactive morse code as @Tau - it started with the bathroom ventilation beeping at me. It is mostly in my right ear, which also had worse fullness before this started. Now I hear it in the car, over my laptop fan and especially the loud fans in the supermarket. Like for Tau it's also activated by the tap. Yesterday, the morse code became a pure tone when lying down to sleep. Unlike my high frequency tinnitus, it sounds like it's coming from somewhere else, which is very scary to me.

Some of the distortions and hyperacusis symptoms I am experiencing: I suddenly noticed that I could hear a sound from my bedside lamp even when it was turned off. My fridge is making a weird rattle that I can hear from far away but which doesn't get louder when I go near it. I sometimes hear a short, loud clinking sound when walking, I think from the buttons on my pants, that I've never heard before. Car brakes sound much louder than I have ever experienced before.

Why the delay from the trauma? Maybe because I tried to continue living as if nothing happened, blaming fullness and subjective tinnitus loudness on anxiety, although I haven't been exposed to anything particularly loud. I guess it's way too late for steroids now. I have an ENT appointment on December 8th, but I don't have much hope that she can do anything for me.

The worst part is that all of this is coupled with bad speech discrimination. The ENT said nothing could be done because my audiogram is in the normal range (barely) and that I might have auditory processing disorder, even though I didn't have these problems before my initial tinnitus. She even doubted that my tinnitus was noise induced because my high frequency hearing is "better" (according to the audiogram) than my low frequency hearing . No speech discrimination test was performed in either quiet or noise. But what is even the point if I can't be helped by a hearing aid?

I'm on Diazepam now and seriously worried about my future. I can't believe my tinnitus was stable for four years and I had to ruin it in a single evening. Any advice?