Jet Fighters Low Flyover

[Jiri]

Is this even legal??! Sorry if this post comes across as panicky. Here's what happened: I went on a nature walk and left my Peltor ear defenders at home this time. It was pretty peaceful outside and a lovely winter day. I'm constantly being told that I need to fight my hyperacusis and so I do try my best.

Well, on my way back I could only hear dogs barking, and all of the other normal sounds. These type of sounds don't seem to bother me anymore. But what do you know? Half way in an open field, out of nowhere, I can suddenly sense a distant boom coming my way. Overcast late afternoon so it was difficult to see what's going on up in the sky. You'd think it'd go away but nooo. It was quickly getting much MUCH louder. As if our Air Force (JAS-39 Gripen) was just having a training session in the area where I now reside. A sonic boom at high altitude? Maybe. It certainly felt like that. Powerful bursts of sound causing me instant ear pain. I was rushing back home Usain Bolt style but nonetheless, you can't outrun this and nowhere to hide. Of course, as soon as I made it home those noise offenders were gone. Classic. Again, how do they allow this?? So dangerous!

There's pain in my right ear now, and yes intrusive ringing. As if this wasn't enough I went to the dentist yesterday and in 2 weeks time I'm gonna need a drilling (no laser), so stressed about that too.

Getting started on a course of steroids is probably a waste now anyway. I was already down on life with the way things were but this? I'm just so upset right now. Sky assholes.

 

[linearb]

It's definitely legal, and used to happen all the time when I lived in the DC metro area.

I wouldn't be too worried about this. Jets with afterburner are 120db at 50 feet, so 114db at 100ft, 108db at 200ft, 102db at 400ft, 96db at 800ft. Even if they were flying reaaaaally low, I doubt if they were less than 400' off the ground, so you probably got some exposure to something in the 95-100db range for a short period of time, which is "obnoxiously loud" and not something I'd want to deal with on regular basis, but also not particularly worrying in the same way it is if a gun goes off by your head or something.

 

[AZeurotuner]

Is this even legal??! Sorry if this post comes across as panicky. Here's what happened: I went on a nature walk and left my Peltor ear defenders at home this time. It was pretty peaceful outside and a lovely winter day. I'm constantly being told that I need to fight my hyperacusis and so I do try my best.

Well, on my way back I could only hear dogs barking, and all of the other normal sounds. These type of sounds don't seem to bother me anymore. But what do you know? Half way in an open field, out of nowhere, I can suddenly sense a distant boom coming my way. Overcast late afternoon so it was difficult to see what's going on up in the sky. You'd think it'd go away but nooo. It was quickly getting much MUCH louder. As if our Air Force (JAS-39 Gripen) was just having a training session in the area where I now reside. A sonic boom at high altitude? Maybe. It certainly felt like that. Powerful bursts of sound causing me instant ear pain. I was rushing back home Usain Bolt style but nonetheless, you can't outrun this and nowhere to hide. Of course, as soon as I made it home those noise offenders were gone. Classic. Again, how do they allow this?? So dangerous!

There's pain in my right ear now, and yes intrusive ringing. As if this wasn't enough I went to the dentist yesterday and in 2 weeks time I'm gonna need a drilling (no laser), so stressed about that too.

Getting started on a course of steroids is probably a waste now anyway. I was already down on life with the way things were but this? I'm just so upset right now. Sky assholes.

This is common where I live Jiri (Tucson, Arizona), A-10s, F-18s, and F-22s will come out of nowhere, after burners lit, at extremely low attitude and blast the hell out of you. I have grown to hate the airforce. Plugging my tragi is usually enough, but sometimes it seems so loud even with my ears plugged that I do find myself worrying for a little while. I will say that I don't believe fighter jets have caused any permanent damage to my ears. Hopefully your ears feel better tommorow man.

 

[Jiri]

Thanks for responding, guys.

I'm trying to cool my own jets here. My right ear is giving me a hard time now and my head is buzzing. I'm hoping it's just some tension & anxiety overload that's making my tinnitus to spike. It felt like being caught off-guard by a strong thunderstorm.

something in the 95-100db range

Possibly. Without a noise meter I can't tell with my hearing sensitivity. It was pretty intense for about a minute or two.

Plugging my tragi is usually enough

That was the first thing I did, but it was still uncomfortably loud so I decided to leave the scene as quickly as I could. It's complete rubbish, tho. It can wreck your days, weeks, months... This shit should be outlawed.

 

[coffee_girl]

I know how you feel, when i am walking around in LA there are tons of air traffic...helicopters fly really low over the homes and they are incredibly loud. Hope you feel better soon

 

[Starthrower]

I went on a nature walk and left my Peltor ear defenders at home this time. It was pretty peaceful outside and a lovely winter day. I'm constantly being told that I need to fight my hyperacusis and so I do try my best.

So proud of you for getting "out" there @Jiri !! Don't be discouraged from attempting going for that nature walk again. Just take your Peltor ear defenders with you.

It does happen here also. The military jets and Coast Guard helicopters will fly low. We live along the coast here and the sound waves are increased between the ocean and if it is a foggy day. That loud rumbling sound....

You will be okay at the dentist. If I can do it anyone can....so important before a cavity gets out of control.

 

[Jiri]

I know how you feel, when i am walking around in LA there are tons of air traffic...helicopters fly really low over the homes and they are incredibly loud. Hope you feel better soon

Damn, I bet noise polution over in LA must be off the charts. I'm sorry to hear that, and thanks.

So proud of you for getting "out" there @Jiri !! Don't be discouraged from attempting going for that nature walk again. Just take your Peltor ear defenders with you.

It does happen here also. The military jets and Coast Guard helicopters will fly low. We live along the coast here and the sound waves are increased between the ocean and if it is a foggy day. That loud rumbling sound....

You will be okay at the dentist. If I can do it anyone can....so important before a cavity gets out of control.

Thank you for your kind words @Starthrower I'm trying to follow my ENT's advice and slowly starting to expose myself to normal sounds. No more wearing earmuffs at home. This incident just felt more like a 'shock treatment', tho. I'm sure it's beautiful over at yours but yeah, military jets and choppers are a big no.

As for the dentist, I may ask him to just yank the tooth out. It's the very last one and the cavity is in a bad spot where my back tooth is pressing on to the other and I can't reach there properly with my interdental brush.

This place is amazing. There's no need to overly explain to others what it feels like to have ear pain or struggle with tinnitus. People just get it and offer support. Super nice. My r. ear is still punishing me so I guess I'll just pop half a Mirta and try to sleep it off.

 

[Starthrower]

As for the dentist, I may ask him to just yank the tooth out. It's the very last one and the cavity is in a bad spot where my back tooth is pressing on to the other and I can't reach there properly with my interdental brush.

Yeah that is a decision @Jiri. I had to have my very last molars taken out a while ago. I didn't miss them or find it hard to eat or anything. I have been told it is best to save a tooth (molar) if possible. If the cavity is really bad or hard to get to it may be better to take it out.

The worse part is waiting for the hole to close up. Mine did without incident.

 

[Ken219]

This is sad.
Did you or a loved one serve in the U.S. military between 2003 and 2015 in a combat zone?
Were you or a loved one issued Yellow/Black earplugs during service?

Since serving in the military, were you or a loved one diagnosed with permanent hearing loss?

Since serving in the military, have you or a loved suffered from tinnitus?

The Minnesota-based 3M Company allegedly sold its dual-ended Combat Arms Earplugs, Version 2, to the Defense Logistics Agency without disclosing defects that decreased the actual effectiveness of the hearing protection the device offered.

 

[Michael B]

I live near MCAS Miramar (Marine base) and hear jets daily. Whatever I'm doing, I stop and plug my ears until they fly over. Then they fly over again.

 

[Jiri]

I guess it depends at what altitude they're flying, wind conditions, and if it's just a flyover or they're actually chasing each other..

 

[AZeurotuner]

I guess it depends at what altitude they're flying, wind conditions, and if it's just a flyover or they're actually chasing each other..

Either way, this is insanity (caution: lower your speaker volume, if you're going to watch it):

As loud and ridiculous as that was, there's something oddly satisfying about seeing a massive hunk of metal cut through the sky with such speed and precision.

 

[Jiri]

@AZeurotuner True. Isn't it why Top Gun became so popular? Anyway, I decided to edit the vid out. Just realized it's probably not a good idea to share content like this on a t. forum.

 

[AZeurotuner]

@AZeurotuner True. Isn't it why Top Gun became so popular? Anyway, I decided to edit the vid out. Just realized it's probably not a good idea to share content like this on a t. forum.

You did gave fair warning that it would be loud, and I don't see why anyone would think a video containing fighter jets would be quiet by any means. I thought it was pretty cool, just don't like them flying over my damn house all day!

 

[Jiri]

You did gave fair warning that it would be loud, and I don't see why anyone would think a video containing fighter jets would be quiet by any means.

Yea well, I vaguely remember that I once shared a vid on here that had some loud sound in it and then someone messaged me later saying that it was inconsiderate of me or smth. I just don't want anyone to freak out, if he or she accidentaly clicks the link, speaker vol on max, and then be popping Pred pills later bec of it. I could be overthinking it but this a different type of a forum, so I think better safe than sorry?

I thought it was pretty cool, just don't like them flying over my damn house all day!

Looks cool in a vid, and all the people there seemed to have enjoyed it. When I knew zero about T I'd have proly loved it myself. Like the tech behind it and the cool factor and all. Now I hate it. Especially after yesterday. Was chatting today with a friend of mine, and she said that one of her friends has a boyfriend who's a fighter pilot and once did a low fly pass right by her house to greet her.

 

[AZeurotuner]

Yea well, I vaguely remember that I once shared a vid on here that had some loud sound in it and then someone messaged me later saying that it was inconsiderate of me or smth. I just don't want anyone to freak out, if he or she accidentaly clicks the link, speaker vol on max, and then be popping Pred pills later bec of it. I could be overthinking it but this a different type of a forum, so I think better safe than sorry?

An individual like that strikes me as the kind of person that would read the "Caution: Contents Hot" label on their coffee, proceed to drink it right away, burn their mouth, then sue the coffee shop for negligence.

Looks cool in a vid, and all the people there seemed to have enjoyed it. When I knew zero about T I'd have proly loved it myself. Like the tech behind it and the cool factor and all. Now I hate it. Especially after yesterday. Was chatting today with a friend of mine, and she said that one of her friends has a boyfriend who's a fighter pilot and once did a low fly pass right by her house to greet her.

I guess what we have to remember is that these pilots just don't understand what they're doing in regards to potential hearing damage. I think all of us (pre-tinnitus), at some point, have probably done something extremely loud without considering that we might be harming the people around us.

 

[New Guy]

I'm trying to cool my own jets here.

I think that was a joke. If it was I like it. If it wasn't apologies for not taking you seriously.

I had no idea how many low flying planes there were until I got t/h or how loud Peterbuilt trucks are.

 

[Jiri]

An individual like that strikes me as the kind of person that would read the "Caution: Contents Hot" label on their coffee, proceed to drink it right away, burn their mouth, then sue the coffee shop for negligence.

This is different. People here are in emotional distress and oftentimes argue about the smallest of things when we really should be pulling for each other to get better.

I guess what we have to remember is that these pilots just don't understand what they're doing in regards to potential hearing damage.

Yeah, it's ignorance. I don't think they're trying to hurt anyone on purpose, just showing off. I'm still wondering, if it's legal to do low flyby's, tho? Like in the movie Top Gun.

• Maverick: Requesting permission for flyby.
• Air Boss Johnson: That's a negative Ghostrider, the pattern is full.
• Goose: No. No, Mav, this is not a good idea.
• Maverick: Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower.

One thing is to do it during an airshow, but on a normal weekday? I think not. They need a permission at least.

 

[Jiri]

I think that was a joke. If it was I like it. If it wasn't apologies for not taking you seriously.

I had no idea how many low flying planes there were until I got t/h or how loud Peterbuilt trucks are.

Hey no apology necessary and thanks. I was really mad and in pain but sometimes I still joke around. Idk why. Yes, if it gets too loud it's a problem. I'm trying to follow the EPA noise chart but still struggle with noise that's 75+ dB(A).

 

[New Guy]

@Jiri

I've had t for a little less than a year and the h is getting better. My threshold is around 70 for prolonged noise. Reasonable peaks I'm ok with. All we can do is give it time and protect if it's too loud.

Never be afraid to plug your ears with your hands. Something is better than nothing. I will not be within a few feet of my Peltor X5a's in case of a fire alarm, sirens, freakin' helicopter or who knows what else.

I have a hard time reading people I first meet on forums hence my caution. Once I get used to your style I'll understand you better.

Have a great weekend!

 

[Jiri]

I have a hard time reading people I first meet on forums hence my caution. Once I get used to your style I'll understand you better.

I understand. Thanks for checking in and I hope you have a nice rest of the weekend

 

[linearb]

Yeah, it's ignorance. I don't think they're trying to hurt anyone on purpose, just showing off. I'm still wondering, if it's legal to do low flyby's, tho? Like in the movie Top Gun.
One thing is to do it during an airshow, but on a normal weekday? I think not. They need a permission at least.

Pilots don't get to do this because they "want to". They're ordered to do it, to practice various low-altitude maneuvers in friendly airspace in case they are scrambled for a mission. For instance, here's a story about some low-altitude exercises in Florida: https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/fl-reg-low-flying-planes-20180214-story.html

When I lived near DC this happened a lot; of course there's a lot of bases in that area, but I also assumed it was a sort of show of force over the Capital airspace. That article says the Florida exercises were 3500 feet; I think that they fly much lower near DC because it used to make our building literally shake, it sounded like a missile was about to hit us.

It's legal for them to fly much lower than that, given properly filed flight plans with the FAA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_flight_rules

In the US, Part 91 (specifically 91.119[5]) of the Federal Aviation Regulations controls the minimum safe altitudes by which aircraft can be operated in the National Airspace System.

An aircraft must maintain an altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

An aircraft must maintain an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons.

From the numbers above that would imply that the loudest jet, with afterburner, passing right over your head at 500 feet, is around 100db. That's annoying and not a noise level you want to just stand around in, but it's similar to running a blender, being passed by a subway train in a tunnel, or running a chainsaw. For people with normal ears and no history of trauma, OSHA says you can be exposed to that for 15 minutes straight. Even if you assume OSHA is 50% too optimistic, and that us tinnitus folks here are 10 times as vulnerable as the average person, you're still looking at ~40 seconds of exposure before it would move the needle much (and I'm being really pessimistic with these numbers, because actual 500 ft flyovers are probably not very common, given that it's literally the legal limit).

 

[Bill Bauer]

Never be afraid to plug your ears with your hands. Something is better than nothing.

I am actually not sure whether plugging my ears with my fingers provides less protection than Peltor X5A muffs or 3m 1100 earplugs (worn on their own). It is difficult to use experiments to answer this question. When I attempted such an experiment, the impression I ended up with was that all three methods seem to provide similar level of protection.

Using one's fingers to press on one's traguses when one already has 3M 1100 earplugs inserted into one's ears seems to increase the noise reduction.

 

[Bill Bauer]

When I lived near DC this happened a lot; of course there's a lot of bases in that area, but I also assumed it was a sort of show of force over the Capital airspace. That article says the Florida exercises were 3500 feet; I think that they fly much lower near DC because it used to make our building literally shake, it sounded like a missile was about to hit us.

It's legal for them to fly much lower than that

I wanted to visit museums in Washington D.C. sometime in the future, but I guess I will have to pass...

 

[linearb]

I wanted to visit museums in Washington D.C. sometime in the future, but I guess I will have to pass...

I remember getting hit with low altitude flyovers in Arlington about six times and in DC twice, in eight years of living there. If I made it sound like it was more common than that, my mistake; it's simply that it was a thing which happened sometimes, which never happens where I live now.

So, I think you're fine... especially when you consider that you could deal with a flyover like this every day for a 2 week visit and not be harmed as a result

This is hardly unique to DC. My tiny state has an F35 homing program, and people are concerned about serious noise pollution over our one metro area as a result... which is one good reason I live 40 miles away.

 

[Bill Bauer]

especially when you consider that you could deal with a flyover like this every day for a 2 week visit and not be harmed as a result

I disagree.

Thank you for letting giving me a sense of how often these flyovers happen. Looks like it happened about once a year...

 

[linearb]

I disagree.

I can't speak for your ears but I lived in that awful place for a long time, most of it with significant tinnitus, flyovers were the least of the things I had to worry about, but absolutely none of it did anything long term to my ears (and I've got hearing thresholds done yesterday that look identical to 2010). The only thing that has moved the needle permanently in 20 years of tinnitus, was one concert, and it was above and beyond anything else I've ever been exposed to, including guns...

Thank you for letting giving me a sense of how often these flyovers happen. Looks like it happened about once a year...

I think that's about right, for the area over my particular office. It's probably more or less frequent, depending on your proximity to airport bases (as well as your proximity to multimillion dollar estates in Georgetown and Potomac which somehow don't seem to get nearly as much traffic in their airspace.... funny thing, that.... and yet according to one study I saw, people living in those areas are responsible for like 80% of the noise complaints the FAA gets....)