Neurologist Requested a 3 Tesla MRI — Given the Loudness, I Decided Not to Go for It

[vermillion]

Dear forum,

As I have already stated previously here: I have worse hyperacusis (thus worse tinnitus) - both fluctuates, weird auditory phenomena such as feedback sounds (aka dysacusis - I posted a video that depicts a simulation of that one here on the forum), visual disturbances (my visual snow is worse in the morning), blurry vision after reading on a computer screen in the night, random flashes during the day, palinopsia (also fluctuates), entoptic phenomenon.

Another awesome symptom I have been getting lately, is morning brain zaps & explosive electric shockwave sounds in my head that are sudden (that one is really "fun"). In addition I did get rid of my sleep paralysis years ago, however I have been getting bouts of it lately.

Anyhow... I decided to go to the neurological hospital. They requested an MRI. The scanner there is not an average one. I have been informed it's a 3 Tesla scanner, which provides pristine image quality (necessary for brain scans). However I read online that those scanners are even louder (up to 130 dB).

After all these years in the shit, one thing I learned is that an MRI would provide zero information for our lovely affliction. So I decided, given the loudness... not to go for it, as I am 100% sure that this would harm me even more (something I can't afford). I mean come on... there are days I am struggling to carry on a convo, let alone going through an MRI such as one?!

What's your take on that one?

 

[valeri]

Unfortunately, as you said it, there's probably a very small chance they would find anything "treatable" that can improve your symptoms and life.

That MRI is VERY loud and personally I wouldn't do it, I could not deal with worse than what I already have.

I may be totally wrong in believing that MRI imaging for neurological conditions is more useful to establish a diagnosis than being helpful in treatment, I mean who ever cured anything neurological?!

 

[vermillion]

Unfortunately, as you said it, there's probably a very small chance they would find anything "treatable" that can improve your symptoms and life.

That MRI is VERY loud and personally I wouldn't do it, I could not deal with worse than what I already have.

I may be totally wrong in believing that MRI imaging for neurological conditions is more useful to establish a diagnosis than being helpful in treatment, I mean who ever cured anything neurological?!

Bingo @valeri.

That's what I thought too. There was that moment of questioning myself whether I should do it or not. I think you are right. Fun fact: When the doctor suggested the MRI (after running through my medical history), I explained that this would be impossible for me due to my hyperacusis. On that moment he went like: "And how are we supposed to examine you? We will give you a Xanax pill and you will do it."

Why did I even bother going to the doctor again?
Why is it so hard for them to acknowledge this disability?

 

[valeri]

Why is it so hard for them to acknowledge this disability?

One thing I don't understand is that all the studies on tinnitus say: tinnitus is a perception of sound bla bla bla... and it can range from mildly annoying to severely disabling bla bla bla...

Now, is it possible that no doctor in the whole wide world, ENTs in particular, read things like that? What's so hard to understand is beyond me!

 

[roy1159]

Avoid it like the plague... They used the same model for my brain MRI, I have brought my best earplugs (34 NRR) and it did nothing because it is the loudest place you will ever be in. My hyperacusis is moderate, can't imagine going through it with worse hyperacusis.

Like the majority, my MRI had no clinical findings so it was futile.

 

[FGG]

Bingo @valeri.

That's what I thought too. There was that moment of questioning myself whether I should do it or not. I think you are right. Fun fact: When the doctor suggested the MRI (after running through my medical history), I explained that this would be impossible for me due to my hyperacusis. On that moment he went like: "And how are we supposed to examine you? We will give you a Xanax pill and you will do it."

Why did I even bother going to the doctor again?
Why is it so hard for them to acknowledge this disability?

A similar experience happened to me when I had severe vertigo (this was well before the ototoxicity of antibiotics added hearing issues) and they wanted to do the MRI while I was in the middle of an attack. I begged them not to and told them I can't even move my mouth to talk without triggering vomiting, so please don't wheel me somewhere else. I then started vomiting after explaining that because I moved my head too much talking and what did they do? They gave me IV Chlorpromazine without my consent (because "well we need to rule a few things out and might as well do it while you are in the ER...") which was literally in my records causing severe akathasia, even though it did stop the vomiting. So I had *another* 3 day horrific akathasia event as as result and couldn't get the MRI anyway because now I was twitching uncontrollably (I would argue that the only thing I have ever experienced worse than full rotational vertigo is severe akathasia).

I literally cannot believe how irresponsible doctors are while they go down their flow charts.

 

[RichieTheKid]

A similar experience happened to me when I had severe vertigo (this was well before the ototoxicity of antibiotics added hearing issues) and they wanted to do the MRI while I was in the middle of an attack. I begged them not to and told them I can't even move my mouth to talk without triggering vomiting, so please don't wheel me somewhere else. I then started vomiting after explaining that because I moved my head too much talking and what did they do? They gave me IV Chlorpromazine without my consent (because "well we need to rule a few things out and might as well do it while you are in the ER...") which was literally in my records causing severe akathasia, even though it did stop the vomiting. So I had *another* 3 day horrific akathasia event as as result and couldn't get the MRI anyway because now I was twitching uncontrollably (I would argue that the only thing I have ever experienced worse than full rotational vertigo is severe akathasia).

I literally cannot believe how irresponsible doctors are while they go down their flow charts.

Man that sounds rough.

Sending blessings your way.

 

[FGG]

Man that sounds rough.

Sending blessings your way.

My vertigo *completely* resolved on anti-virals, luckily/thankfully. It's the ototoxocity from the high dose Azithromycin they gave me before they figured out that my vertigo was viral that messed up my cochleas irreparably.

 

[vermillion]

A similar experience happened to me when I had severe vertigo (this was well before the ototoxicity of antibiotics added hearing issues) and they wanted to do the MRI while I was in the middle of an attack. I begged them not to and told them I can't even move my mouth to talk without triggering vomiting, so please don't wheel me somewhere else. I then started vomiting after explaining that because I moved my head too much talking and what did they do? They gave me IV Chlorpromazine without my consent (because "well we need to rule a few things out and might as well do it while you are in the ER...") which was literally in my records causing severe akathasia, even though it did stop the vomiting. So I had *another* 3 day horrific akathasia event as as result and couldn't get the MRI anyway because now I was twitching uncontrollably (I would argue that the only thing I have ever experienced worse than full rotational vertigo is severe akathasia).

I literally cannot believe how irresponsible doctors are while they go down their flow charts.

My vertigo *completely* resolved on anti-virals, luckily/thankfully. It's the ototoxocity from the high dose Azithromycin they gave me before they figured out that my vertigo was viral that messed up my cochleas irreparably.

@FGG, I didn't have any idea about this.

This is so infuriating what those people made you go through. Was the Azithromycin the culprit of your hyperacusis?

 

[Kriszti]

I literally cannot believe how irresponsible doctors are while they go down their flow charts.

I get that they don't have many tools on their hand if they want to examine the brain for tinnitus or other neurological conditions, but how dismissive they can be is unbelievable. Your experience sounds truly horrible, and you are a doctor, you know what you are talking about, and still don't get to be taken serious. I'm glad that your vertigo attacks resolved, you are such a tough person dealing with all the medical issues.

The neurologist I visited thought that it was due to some phobia that I was reluctant about an MRI because "small children go through it often, without any problem". Ok... I don't know why that's an issue for them to acknowledge that if loud noises can cause acoustic traumas, the MRI and other pretty loud testing equipment may also be able to, even if it's not that common among people with healthy hearing.

Are you more susceptible to ototoxocity due to the Azithromycin now?

 

[FGG]

@FGG, I didn't have any idea about this.

This is so infuriating what those people made you go through. Was the Azithromycin the culprit of your hyperacusis?

Other than causing the initial ear damage (hearing loss, dysacusis, tinnitus) that set me up with ear damage, I don't think the Azithromycin is related.

Well, maybe indirectly. I got noxacusis/acoustic shock/TTTS by putting my phone speaker turned all the way up *right next to my ear* in an attempt to hear something with my bad hearing. It's only been a month for that and I hope it gets better.

 

[FGG]

Your experience sounds truly horrible, and you are a doctor, you know what you are talking about, and still don't get to be taken serious.

Some MDs think they are God-tier. They are absolutely not going to listen to a veterinarian. Even one that has done a lot of homework.

 

[RichieTheKid]

Some MDs think they are God-tier. They are absolutely not going to listen to a veterinarian. Even one that has done a lot of homework.

If treatment comes, and helps you FGG, will you consider being a researcher? You strike me as someone with the potential to help many.

 

[FGG]

If treatment comes, and helps you FGG, will you consider being a researcher? You strike me as someone with the potential to help many.

If it's in the cards for me, I would love to actually.

High dose Azithromycin damages more than hair cells, though. It damages the stria/ vascular layer and brainstem ion channels too. I'm just trying to hold out as long as I can so I can keep fixing things until I can hear normally again. It might be decades. I'm in my early 40s now for reference.

 

[Forever hopeful]

@vermillion, do you have access to a Siemens Open Bore MRI? They are much quieter. And your head isn't stuck in that tiny tube so the machine isn't close to your head. Also, the hearing protection they provide lowers the decibels more. I have read that the Tesla ones are ridiculously loud.

 

[Phi]

@vermillion, do you have access to a Siemens Open Bore MRI? They are much quieter. And your head isn't stuck in that tiny tube so the machine isn't close to your head. Also, the hearing protection they provide lowers the decibels more. I have read that the Tesla ones are ridiculously loud.

Do you know how loud the Siemens open bore MRI is?

Can you bring your own industrial ear protection to an MRI scan?

 

[MaryA]

Hello all,

I just had a 3 Tesla MRI last week in a wide bore machine (vs open bore). I used the orange spongy ear plugs and then they put a headset over. I told them about being sensitive to sound and asked they don't play loud music but make it softer. They turned it down.

I have such panic and anxiety I didn't know how I would get through the test which was brain and C-spine. I spent 40 minutes white-knuckled, then additional 15 minutes after they pull you out and give dye. I made it without any drugs. You will be blindfolded and a cage will go over your head and shoulders. The machine was loud but I've been in louder.

Was worth finding out if there were other causes. For me, I'm pretty certain it was Moderna vaccine but took a shot to find out if it was something else. One thing I learned is that cervical instability can cause tinnitus. I watched videos from a doctor here in Florida talk about Prolotherapy. It might be worth looking into if your tinnitus is related to that. Dr. Ross Hauser, caringmedical.com. I am not affiliated or promoting that in any way, just wanted to share.

Getting the MRI gave me peace knowing I'm exhausting every avenue to take back my life from this horrible affliction! Also relying on prayer and God to help me through. Thanks to everyone who posts here. Its been really helpful. Wish ENTs would take it more seriously. Praying for cure.

 

[vermillion]

Other than causing the initial ear damage (hearing loss, dysacusis, tinnitus) that set me up with ear damage, I don't think the Azithromycin is related.

Well, maybe indirectly. I got noxacusis/acoustic shock/TTTS by putting my phone speaker turned all the way up *right next to my ear* in an attempt to hear something with my bad hearing. It's only been a month for that and I hope it gets better.

Hello @FGG, it saddens me reading that you too have to cope with noxacusis. Digital sound is the worse in that instance. At least for me it is a major trigger. I know that your post is from weeks ago, so I would be glad to hear whether you feel any better.

 

[vermillion]

@vermillion, do you have access to a Siemens Open Bore MRI? They are much quieter. And your head isn't stuck in that tiny tube so the machine isn't close to your head. Also, the hearing protection they provide lowers the decibels more. I have read that the Tesla ones are ridiculously loud.

Thank you for your message. I am aware of that information but this is not available at that clinic. They do want a 3T machine (which they provide) due to better image quality. I am not sure whether 3T comes at open bore type of scanners. Even if that was the case, I highly doubt there's one available here. Surprisingly I read somewhere about MRI that goes up to 7T.

What noise levels those scanners do reach? Who was the guy who posted? I think @asey20. Maybe he knows something more in that regard?

 

[vermillion]

Hello all,

I just had a 3 Tesla MRI last week in a wide bore machine (vs open bore). I used the orange spongy ear plugs and then they put a headset over. I told them about being sensitive to sound and asked they don't play loud music but make it softer. They turned it down.

I have such panic and anxiety I didn't know how I would get through the test which was brain and C-spine. I spent 40 minutes white-knuckled, then additional 15 minutes after they pull you out and give dye. I made it without any drugs. You will be blindfolded and a cage will go over your head and shoulders. The machine was loud but I've been in louder.

Was worth finding out if there were other causes. For me, I'm pretty certain it was Moderna vaccine but took a shot to find out if it was something else. One thing I learned is that cervical instability can cause tinnitus. I watched videos from a doctor here in Florida talk about Prolotherapy. It might be worth looking into if your tinnitus is related to that. Dr. Ross Hauser, caringmedical.com. I am not affiliated or promoting that in any way, just wanted to share.

Getting the MRI gave me peace knowing I'm exhausting every avenue to take back my life from this horrible affliction! Also relying on prayer and God to help me through. Thanks to everyone who posts here. Its been really helpful. Wish ENTs would take it more seriously. Praying for cure.

Thank you for reaching out and for your supportive message. I really hope that after the MRI you've found help and you have improved. Florida is an amazing place, and you deserve to enjoy it. Regarding the treatments you recommend, I can't say that there are legit physicians here who could perform those kind of protocols. There was a physician that offered Prolotherapy, but she was mostly treating musculoskeletal injuries. She's not practicing anymore.

Again thanks for reaching out.

 

[FGG]

Hello @FGG, it saddens me reading that you too have to cope with noxacusis. Digital sound is the worse in that instance. At least for me it is a major trigger. I know that your post is from weeks ago, so I would be glad to hear whether you feel any better.

Yes and no. I'm just as sound sensitive (if not more so) but my pain is less after I started taking Ambroxil. It's been about 2 months so that's usually not enough to start feeling better. Thanks for thinking of me though. I hope you are getting better yourself...

 

[vermillion]

my pain is less after I started taking Ambroxil

That is really good news! I hope you can get rid of the pain once and for all.

Thanks for thinking of me though. I hope you are getting better yourself...

Thank you. Unfortunately not. There are days during which the pain's better but all in all my sensitivity is worse than it was a couple of months ago.

 

[Robin21]

Just had a Tesla 3 MRI (of course they found nothing). I brought my custom made earplugs plus there were earmuffs there that went on top of it.

Even with these, during the scan on 2 occasions for a good 5-6 minutes it was definitely super loud. I almost pushed the panic button.

I was telling myself there is no way it could do any harm, with a 37 dB + a 20-25 dB noise dampening and theoretically it shouldn't. But of course life is different than theory and anything can happen.

After the scan everything was as usual, but 4 days later I got a massive spike. I don't have any ear fullness or perceived hearing changes but the tinnitus is now through the roof and more intrusive.

So I hope it will subside, but over the last few weeks and months I had so much stress and anxiety over my ears that I don't even know what to expect.

Oh and I should get the Pfizer vaccine in 2 days but since it can also make tinnitus worse, and with the 'law of attraction' it will, I'm afraid to take it.

I'm on the brink of my tolerance. I couldn't bear another level shift. I never thought this thing can be worse but it always surprises me.

 

[Matchbox]

Just had a Tesla 3 MRI (of course they found nothing). I brought my custom made earplugs plus there were earmuffs there that went on top of it.

Even with these, during the scan on 2 occasions for a good 5-6 minutes it was definitely super loud. I almost pushed the panic button.

I was telling myself there is no way it could do any harm, with a 37 dB + a 20-25 dB noise dampening and theoretically it shouldn't. But of course life is different than theory and anything can happen.

After the scan everything was as usual, but 4 days later I got a massive spike. I don't have any ear fullness or perceived hearing changes but the tinnitus is now through the roof and more intrusive.

So I hope it will subside, but over the last few weeks and months I had so much stress and anxiety over my ears that I don't even know what to expect.

Oh and I should get the Pfizer vaccine in 2 days but since it can also make tinnitus worse, and with the 'law of attraction' it will, I'm afraid to take it.

I'm on the brink of my tolerance. I couldn't bear another level shift. I never thought this thing can be worse but it always surprises me.

Double hearing protection adds about 5 dB protection on top of the single single hearing protection (an average, so may be less in certain low frequencies especially via bone conduction).

 

[Andrew01]

I have an MRI tomorrow, but think I am going to cancel it.

I've been dealing with my tinnitus really well, and my hyperacusis has improved substantially (but still there, and I have to wear plugs at gym, street, and some other times).

It just seems like a big risk for what I know will be an all clear.

I know people are going to be pissed (doctor, family, partner) but honestly until you have hyperacusis it's hard to understand.

If I go I will be very liberal about the panic button, and stop it if it feels not just painful but too loud, so at least they know I tried.

 

[Brian P]

Cancel.

 

[Andrew01]

Ya, I'm probably just going to cancel.

I can always reschedule if my situation changed in a way that required it, or take time to find a quiet one somehow ect. The one thing is can't do is go back in time and not get an MRI.

I know some people will be annoyed and I'll have to pay a minor cancellation fee, but I need to look out for my own health.

 

[Andrew01]

Cancelled the appointment. My partner was very supportive and understanding which made it easier.

May get a bit of flak from my GP, and I should of cancelled a bit sooner but I wanted to see if my hyperacusis improved even more and honesty was putting it off in my mind.

Ultimately my condition is very livable right now. An MRI won't make me better but could make me worse, however unlikely. There isn't a rush to get one, and I can always get one in the future if my condition changes. Pretty sure any of the rare things it could reveal wouldn't really necessitate treatment anyway considering my current symptoms and their impact on my life.

Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid, but the opportunity cost of being overly cautious here is low.

 

[GeorgeLG]

My medical oncologist wants to do an MRI. I have multiple cancers which put me at risk of an acoustic neuroma to explain my ear pain.

My research suggests that the Toshiba/Canon Vantage machines with Pianissimo technology are the quietest. Any experience with this?

Anybody have luck doing a CT scan instead to get info on the inner ear and rule out a tumor? MY ENT wants a CT scan of the sinuses anyway.

George

 

[Jack Straw]

Cancelled the appointment. My partner was very supportive and understanding which made it easier.

May get a bit of flak from my GP, and I should of cancelled a bit sooner but I wanted to see if my hyperacusis improved even more and honesty was putting it off in my mind.

Ultimately my condition is very livable right now. An MRI won't make me better but could make me worse, however unlikely. There isn't a rush to get one, and I can always get one in the future if my condition changes. Pretty sure any of the rare things it could reveal wouldn't really necessitate treatment anyway considering my current symptoms and their impact on my life.

Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid, but the opportunity cost of being overly cautious here is low.

Look for one of those silent MRIs and make sure the scan is only done with the silent mode. If it can't be done with the silent mode, say you don't want it. But I have seen people discuss MRIs from a certain machine that is always quiet.