Noise-Canceling Headphones Making Tinnitus Worse/Flare It Up?

[Methos1979]

Hello again,

Long time no visit/post. I joined some 4-odd years ago to poke around and see what the latest and greatest in research/treatment might be but left when nothing seemed to be promising. Mostly I left because I couldn't identify with the seemingly shrill responses from the newer, younger sufferers that were losing their minds over their tinnitus. I just couldn't relate.

I've had my tinnitus since the '70s courtesy of close proximity to a loud explosion while serving in the military. I was just happy to still be alive so the non-stop loud ringing on both ears (at different and discordant frequencies) was a small price to pay. It never occurred to me that it was something I couldn't live with.

Anyway, like most I have days when I barely notice it as long as I'm not thinking about it. Any raising of my blood pressure via illness or weight gain seems to really exacerbate it so it's a good indication that I'm coming down with something or I'd better start eating better, exercising and drop a few pounds!

I've embraced for several years noise-canceling headphone technology. It allows me to listen to music or podcasts at a lower volume which one would think would be beneficial for people like us. I'll use them when mowing the lawn or flying on the plane for work or any other time I just want to drown out the world.

One thing I have noticed though is that if I'm using them for extended periods like plane flights or even just wearing them at work, the noise-canceling feature itself seems to exacerbate the tinnitus. If I wear them for more than 2-3 hours straight then the next few days my tinnitus seems to spike.

I've been using Bose QC25's for years and just recently upgraded to the new and slick Bose NC700's. Lots of great new features and Bluetooth and all. I like that there are ten different levels of noise canceling. I also feel less 'pressure' from the NC feature with the newest model but after wearing them for a few days on a work trip I still notice the general perceived spike in tinnitus volume and I'm just wondering if anyone else out there that is a regular user of the NC headphones notices this as well.

I should note that although I tend to get spikes/flares of tinnitus from using NC headphones, the increase is never permanent and my 'normal' tinnitus level (pretty freaking loud, anyway) always returns to normal, thankfully!

 

[JohnAdams]

Noise cancelling headphones have a software lag that can cause the inverted waveform to not match up perfectly with higher frequency sounds that can actually add them instead of cancelling them out.

In this animation the two top waves amplitudes sum up and the bottom one is the result. Notice when the two top ones are opposite each other, 180 degrees out of phase, the bottom wave is flat, this is how noise cancelling works. However, notice that when they are matched, in phase, the bottom resulting wave is twice as high. This is what is happening to higher frequency waves in NC headphones because of the lag. So the result can actually be a louder noise than regular headphones. NC headphones are good for medium to lower frequencies that are regular like the hum of jet engines or road noise.

 

[linearb]

Bose NC headphones seemed to annoy my ears; expensive Sony NC ones do not.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I should note that although I tend to get spikes/flares of tinnitus from using NC headphones, the increase is never permanent and my 'normal' tinnitus level (pretty freaking loud, anyway) always returns to normal, thankfully!

@Methos1979

I advise you to be very careful with what you are doing. Your tinnitus is spiking and increasing for a reason. Your auditory system does not like what you are doing using NC headphones. You have been lucky so far but please be aware, if you persist with what you're doing, then your tinnitus is likely to spike on one occasion and it will not reduce to its baseline level.

Tinnitus can be ruthless and very unforgiving so please be careful.

Michael

 

[Methos1979]

Bose NC headphones seemed to annoy my ears; expensive Sony NC ones do not.

Hmm. Interesting. The Sony WH1000XM3's were in top contention and I did a lot of A/B'ing between the two but not enough to notice a difference between the NC affect on the ears. The pronounced bass of the Sony's was one of the reasons I went with the Bose. Along with my tinnitus is a significant hearing loss in the mid-tone 3K range so having accentuated lows or highs makes music sound muddy or shrill. And since I'm not a young person my music tastes don't tend to benefit from that real low, thumping bass that many love/prefer for today's popular music. The Bose seemed to give an overall tone that is better for me. I'll have to see if I can find someone with a set of Sony's to do a temp trade/test. Or maybe I'll just buy a pair to directly A/B them and then either return or sell the ones I like least.

 

[Alue]

Bose NC headphones seemed to annoy my ears; expensive Sony NC ones do not.

I'm curious why that is.

What models where you using?

 

[linearb]

I'm curious why that is.

What models where you using?

I don't remember; whatever was $300 at the time which was a number of years ago. I have found the NC effect from different manufactures and headsets "feels" different; it's a pressure sensation of sorts, and not entirely pleasant. The Sonys do not seem to do this.

I have used more recent Bose sets intermittently in offices and similar.

@Methos1979 you can use the Sony software to reduce the bass, depending what you're listening through...

 

[Alue]

I don't remember; whatever was $300 at the time which was a number of years ago. I have found the NC effect from different manufactures and headsets "feels" different; it's a pressure sensation of sorts, and not entirely pleasant. The Sonys do not seem to do this.

I have used more recent Bose sets intermittently in offices and similar.

@Methos1979 you can use the Sony software to reduce the bass, depending what you're listening through...

I see, well if you find out let me know. I use the Bose QC 25's but if some other model had a better frequency response I'd be willing to try them. I normally use them with earplugs underneath during times when earplugs don't feel like earplugs are enough.

I do wonder if some models attempt to cancel out higher frequency sounds but fail to get the timing right (like @JohnAdams mentioned), and if other models don't bother trying to cancel out past a certain frequency range.

 

[Mal58]

@Methos1979 -
Could the noise cancelling headphones be making things too quiet?

Some docs* say that developing hearing loss, causing you to lose contact with external sounds, might make you more aware of internal sounds like Tinnitus. Becoming more aware of the tinnitus makes you worried. Being worried makes you focus on the tinnitus more, which makes you even more aware of it, and you become even more worried... and you're caught in a vicious circle.

* "Living with Tinnitus and Hyperacusis" by Dr Laurence McKenna et. al.

 

[John Mahan]

@Methos1979 -
Could the noise cancelling headphones be making things too quiet?

Some docs* say that developing hearing loss, causing you to lose contact with external sounds, might make you more aware of internal sounds like Tinnitus. Becoming more aware of the tinnitus makes you worried. Being worried makes you focus on the tinnitus more, which makes you even more aware of it, and you become even more worried... and you're caught in a vicious circle.

* "Living with Tinnitus and Hyperacusis" by Dr Laurence McKenna et. al.

Possibly. Had an in depth a couple of meetings with my audiologist recently. She wants me to 'push my sound threshold'. I told her...and she measured it...the louder sounds hurt my ears. I recently talked to my older brother and he said the same thing about him. His tinnitus is lower than mine.

My audiologist said, she wants me to push the boundary of dB to desensitize my ears (brain) to louder sound. She said, not doing so, merely prolongs the brains denial of louder sounds.

That said, I tread carefully. I try to avoid loud venues. I do no cover up. When I used to ride motorcycles a few years ago, I always wore ear plugs because the pipes were loud. I have worn foam ear plugs to loud parties which I normally just try to avoid.

Because of what John posted...this is discussed before, I personally would not use noise cancelling headphones. I don't want a metered sound wave which may interact with natural listening. I have no data to support that. I personally have no purpose for noise cancelling headphones and you guys know I am a fan of studio level open back headphones for a variety of music from rock to classical. I like some opera too. John may have posted a plausible thesis of why 'some' noise cancelling headphones may not be good for those with a hearing deficit or tinnitus.

 

[Fangen]

I have the first model of the SONY NC MDX version and I mainly use it just for the NC function and don't have music or any sound on. I had no issues with my tinnitus flaring up, it's obviously louder because the noise from outside is less. Just like having earplugs on.

 

[newbieT]

@Methos1979 I actually returned my Bose QC35s after a month due to aggravated T after extended use. It could just be me being paranoid, but it definitely felt louder. I think the NC is actually TOO good. You can feel a vacuum/pressure change when the NC is on high.

I actually switched to cheaper brand like Anker/Mpow on amazon. They dont filter out the higher frequency like Bose and only reduce the lower frequency by 70% compared to Bose, but you dont get that pressure feeling. And I been using it with no problem for awhile now.

 

[Mal58]

Possibly. Had an in depth a couple of meetings with my audiologist recently. She wants me to 'push my sound threshold'. I told her...and she measured it...the louder sounds hurt my ears...

What *exactly* does she mean by 'push my sound threshold'? Would she recommend, say, going to a performance of Beethoven 9th by a large orchestra & choir, in a small concert hall, and sitting in the "maximum impact" spot? Would she recommend going to a noisy cinema and watching an action movie? Extensive lawn mowing and vacuuming sessions without ear plugs?

Is she actually saying push the threshold until you are feeling pain, and then keep it loud and painful?

The idea of having more natural sound in one's life seems a good one to me - in between my (perhaps) too noisy headphone sessions (a few hours a day at most) I'd be (mostly) sitting & reading, or web browsing, or writing, in silence. If the neighbours started arguing, or the kids started shouting in the street, I'd stick in ear plugs.

Living in the state to which we evolved, people would just be putting up with these sounds in their mud huts.

The last few days I've been putting up with the kids shouting in the street. Because I now think it's doing me some good, I rather like it, nice to hear kids having fun!

 

[John Mahan]

What *exactly* does she mean by 'push my sound threshold'? Would she recommend, say, going to a performance of Beethoven 9th by a large orchestra & choir, in a small concert hall, and sitting in the "maximum impact" spot? Would she recommend going to a noisy cinema and watching an action movie? Extensive lawn mowing and vacuuming sessions without ear plugs?

Is she actually saying push the threshold until you are feeling pain, and then keep it loud and painful?

The idea of having more natural sound in one's life seems a good one to me - in between my (perhaps) too noisy headphone sessions (a few hours a day at most) I'd be (mostly) sitting & reading, or web browsing, or writing, in silence. If the neighbours started arguing, or the kids started shouting in the street, I'd stick in ear plugs.

Living in the state to which we evolved, people would just be putting up with these sounds in their mud huts.

The last few days I've been putting up with the kids shouting in the street. Because I now think it's doing me some good, I rather like it, nice to hear kids having fun!

Um no...not sitting in the high volume area of a concert.

Rather, not letting sound avoidance rule. She believes avoidance is bad to recovery....but of course what you posit about sitting in a high volume section of a concert venue may be harmful to even healthy hearing.

I explained than my hyperacusis seemed to be a companion to my onset of tinnitus now about 3 years ago or so which is commonly reported here. I have improved as many have. I am not as 'afraid of' sound as I was in the early days. But I have some level of hearing loss at high frequency and still have some sound sensitivity.

I can be outside at a street side café. If a big truck rolls by just feet from where I am sitting, this can reach the threshold of pain for me. I sometimes have to cover my ears. Others with more ordinary hearing don't.

But on balance, my life is pretty unaltered by my hearing. I just try to not be in any really loud sound venue as any responsible adult should consider and of course with very healthy hearing with high sound threshold, many harm their hearing by subjecting to high noise level...because they can.

 

[Falchion]

So maybe a silly question, but do you actually listen to music through these or just use them for the ANC?

My ENT recommended against all headphones, and if you have to use them do it overear and low volume.