Noise Levels in Restaurants

[Zug]

Interesting article about noise levels in restaurants:
http://bloom.bg/1Us19LZ

 

[Flamingo1]

It's not your imagination, noise levels ARE getting louder in bars, restaurants and even stores!! I was in NYC recently and was shocked by how loud it was, from cars honking, doormen blowing whistles to flag down taxis, jackhammers on every corner. Not good for ANYONE'S hearing! I spent 90% of my time in New York in ear plugs. The scary thing is, before getting tinnitus, I never paid attention to noise levels. Now I stay away from any loud venue!! Here's an article about increasing noise levels in restaurants and stores, and how clueless most people are on how damaging it can be.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/...or-noise-goes-unabated.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

 

[Wolfears]

It's not your imagination, noise levels ARE getting louder in bars, restaurants and even stores!! I was in NYC recently and was shocked by how loud it was, from cars honking, doormen blowing whistles to flag down taxis, jackhammers on every corner. Not good for ANYONE'S hearing! I spent 90% of my time in New York in ear plugs. The scary thing is, before getting tinnitus, I never paid attention to noise levels. Now I stay away from any loud venue!! Here's an article about increasing noise levels in restaurants and stores, and how clueless most people are on how damaging it can be.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/...or-noise-goes-unabated.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

That article is actually a perfect example of why tinnitus awareness is virtually zero and why most people never even heard of it.
It is very long and drawn out..it deals with migraine, hearing loss, it talks about damage, but "ear ringing" is only mentioned about half way down in passing.
Average reader will completely miss the main issue.

I would venture to guess, that most people don't really consider some hearing loss as a major threat..especially gradual one.
Instead, this article should have highlighted the fact, that tinnitus (especially the severe kind) could be a life ender.
They should have quoted severe tinnitus sufferers, whom are on brink of suicide.
They should have highlighted the fact, that life with tinnitus will be a brutal, permanent, 27/7 torture consisting of trying to suppress suicidal urges and extreme anxiety with nowhere to turn and no help available.
They should have put emphasis on never being able to relax, focus, sleep normally or hold a job for the rest of their life.

But instead, they wrote another long, boring article, which will leave the reader rather indifferent and he/she still won't know what tinnitus is, or what it can do to them at the end of the day.

 

[Flamingo1]

Yes, I totally agree. There will be a heavily populated generation of tinnitus sufferers with this carefree attitude toward noise levels. Unfortunately, the younger generations won't value < 60 dB levels until they become afflicted with T. It's crazy how loud our society has become and how commercial interests are inflicting insane noise levels on clueless people! I mean, 100 dB in a bar??! Really?! Is that necessary??

 

[GregCA]

It's crazy how loud our society has become and how commercial interests are inflicting insane noise levels on clueless people! I mean, 100 dB in a bar??! Really?! Is that necessary??

Which bar has a sound environment measured at 100 dB?

 

[Wolfears]

Which bar has a sound environment measured at 100 dB?

Enter any sports bar, especially when some important game is on...
There is always music pounding in the background, along with some 20 big screen TV's cranked up, so you can hear the sports commentators, along with the noisy sports crowd..
My guess would be 100 dB easy.

Before tinnitus I would not even register it, but now I would turn around very quickly in the doorway.

 

[Tinker Bell]

Enter any sports bar, especially when some important game is on...
There is always music pounding in the background, along with some 20 big screen TV's cranked up, so you can hear the sports commentators, along with the noisy sports crowd..
My guess would be 100 dB easy.

Before tinnitus I would not even register it, but now I would turn around very quickly in the doorway.

A constant 100dB or occasional fluctuations that register 100dB? There's a difference. A constant would be incredibly concerning for patrons and employees; as well as an OSHA violation since the guideline is no more than 15 consecutive minutes.

 

[GregCA]

Enter any sports bar, especially when some important game is on...
There is always music pounding in the background, along with some 20 big screen TV's cranked up, so you can hear the sports commentators, along with the noisy sports crowd..
My guess would be 100 dB easy.

I didn't really ask for a guess, I asked for measured data:

Which bar has a sound environment measured at 100 dB?

 

[GregCA]

A constant 100dB or occasional fluctuations that register 100dB? There's a difference. A constant would be incredibly concerning for patrons and employees; as well as an OSHA violation since the guideline is no more than 15 consecutive minutes.

Yup. The show "Disney On Ice" I went to oscillated between 85 dB and 90 dB (I measured). That was uncomfortable enough for me to leave the arena, and it was about the loudness of your "typical sports bar".

There's a massive difference between 90 dB and 100 dB, as well as baseline vs spike.

Some of the music events listed here are ridiculously loud: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudest_band

 

[Flamingo1]

Which bar has a sound environment measured at 100 dB?

At Beaumarchais, a nightclub-like brasserie on West 13th Street, the music averaged 99 decibels over 20 minutes and reached 102 in its loudest 5 minutes. "It definitely takes a toll," a waiter said.

Workers at these places said the sound levels, which were recorded over periods as long as an hour and a half, were typical when they were working.

 

[Wolfears]

I didn't really ask for a guess, I asked for measured data:

Good luck with that one.

 

[Wolfears]

A constant 100dB or occasional fluctuations that register 100dB? There's a difference. A constant would be incredibly concerning for patrons and employees; as well as an OSHA violation since the guideline is no more than 15 consecutive minutes.

Given the nature of what's going on in these places, measuring a constant dB level would be pretty much impossible...
There will be fluctuations depending on what is happening at the time.
Average is the only way to go here.

 

[GregCA]

At Beaumarchais, a nightclub-like brasserie on West 13th Street, the music averaged 99 decibels over 20 minutes and reached 102 in its loudest 5 minutes. "It definitely takes a toll," a waiter said.

Workers at these places said the sound levels, which were recorded over periods as long as an hour and a half, were typical when they were working.

Thanks for the info. I believe it! I'm sure there are a few loud places out there.

Note that this place you mention is qualified as "a nightclub-like brasserie" - which is not your typical bar. The nightclub part of the name already tells you it's going to be "nightclub-loud".

 

[GregCA]

Good luck with that one.

Yup, perhaps the evidence is scarce.
@Flamingo1 did provide an interesting data point, though.

 

[PaulBe]

Which bar has a sound environment measured at 100 dB?

I was performing in one once and the owner spent the whole time running around anxiously with a sound meter. His biggest problem was that his venue, when full, breached Queensland's admittedly pathetic sound mitigation laws even when the band wasn't playing, simply by virtue of the noise capturing design of the building.

 

[Flamingo1]

I was performing in one once and the owner spent the whole time running around anxiously with a sound meter. His biggest problem was that his venue, when full, breached Queensland's admittedly pathetic sound mitigation laws even when the band wasn't playing, simply by virtue of the noise capturing design of the building.

I thought the law was that anything over 80 dB is illegal. I know when I measure sound in a noisy place it usually peaks and stays at 80 dB.

 

[Ed209]

Bars are typically nowhere near a 100dB. None of the bars I've ever been to have hit this level unless there's been a live band performing, and I've been to plenty of sports bars. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but realistically speaking, it would be highly unusual.

To put it into perspective, the loudest game in the premier league so far measured 85dB. I'm not sure if some of you realise just how loud a continuous level of 100dB really is.

https://www.expressandstar.com/spor...wolves-fans-loudest-in-premier-league-so-far/

 

[Tinker Bell]

M

Given the nature of what's going on in these places, measuring a constant dB level would be pretty much impossible...
There will be fluctuations depending on what is happening at the time.
Average is the only way to go here.

No, it's possible. The monitor app I use provides the instantaneous level, average, and peaks. The average may be 70dB but the peak will show spikes from a loud sneeze, plates dropping, etc.

 

[Wolfears]

M

No, it's possible. The monitor app I use provides the instantaneous level, average, and peaks. The average may be 70dB but the peak will show spikes from a loud sneeze, plates dropping, etc.

Lol..yes that is kind of what I meant, but most likely failed to communicate properly.
These places are anything but constant or steady...
With all the fluctuations, average is what matters the most.

 

[Jack Straw]

what I noticed is the music volume that resturants play. They want to play music and have it be audible so they turn it loud enough where you can hear it over the typical restaurants ambiance which is around like 70-75 DB. This causes the patreons to talk louder as well increasing the overall volume again.

 

[Red]

Bars are typically nowhere near a 100dB. None of the bars I've ever been to have hit this level unless there's been a live band performing, and I've been to plenty of sports bars. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but realistically speaking, it would be highly unusual.

To put it into perspective, the loudest game in the premier league so far measured 85dB. I'm not sure if some of you realise just how loud a continuous level of 100dB really is.

View attachment 24406

https://www.expressandstar.com/spor...wolves-fans-loudest-in-premier-league-so-far/

Perhaps ground level is quieter than in the stands? I have trouble believing the noisiest sports game is only as loud as a busy street.

But that's not the first time a sound measurement has seemed off to me. @fishbone and I read from a different support group hand dryers measure at 99db. That just doesn't seem right!

 

[Ed209]

Perhaps ground level is quieter than in the stands? I have trouble believing the noisiest sports game is only as loud as a busy street.

But that's not the first time a sound measurement has seemed off to me. @fishbone and I read from a different support group hand dryers measure at 99db. That just doesn't seem right!

That's the leq or weighted average. This gives a figure which represents exposure over a period of time as a single figure and is the industry standard for measuring noise. There would almost certainly be spikes in the 90's.

I've been to loads of sporting events and do not consider them to be in the "immediately dangerous category". Some may be, because there will always be dangerously loud events no matter what they are. However, I never acquired ringing ears after any game when T wasn't a big concern in my life, but I always did after going to clubs and concerts; those are what I'd consider the real dangers along with shooting guns and other activities involving dangerous impulse noises.

With that said, I now where ear plugs to sporting events as I'd rather play it safe, but in the grand scheme of loudness, I still don't consider them to be anywhere near concert level.

 

[fishbone]

That's the leq or weighted average. This gives a figure which represents exposure over a period of time as a single figure and is the industry standard for measuring noise. There would almost certainly be spikes in the 90's.

I've been to loads of sporting events and do not consider them to be in the "immediately dangerous category". Some may be, because there will always be dangerously loud events no matter what they are. However, I never acquired ringing ears after any game when T wasn't a big concern in my life, but I always did after going to clubs and concerts; those are what I'd consider the real dangers along with shooting guns and other activities involving dangerous impulse noises.

With that said, I now where ear plugs to sporting events as I'd rather play it safe, but in the grand scheme of loudness, I still don't consider them to be anywhere near concert level.

On average, a sporting event is around 90dbs. When the fans are cheering and yelling it can easily scale up to 100+ dbs. I would NEVER go to one without ear plugs.

If I get exposed to such levels, I will use sound therapy for a day or two to calm the nasty spikes down...

 

[fishbone]

Perhaps ground level is quieter than in the stands? I have trouble believing the noisiest sports game is only as loud as a busy street.

But that's not the first time a sound measurement has seemed off to me. @fishbone and I read from a different support group hand dryers measure at 99db. That just doesn't seem right!

A busy street is around 85dbs and possibly higher. I have been in bars/sports grills when they had the world series and the screaming/yelling added up to 105Dbs. I was without ear plugs and It was the scariest thing ever. I sure as hell felt the spike and ear pain.

 

[fishbone]

As we are speaking, I am going to a restaurant right now. On average it's around 83Dbs, when people pack it in it gets up to 88-90Dbs. I usually stay for 35-45 minutes and leave. I know my tolerance levels and how much I can handle. That's the key, it's knowing how much YOU can handle, at what noise levels. If the place was above 90dbs, id use ear plugs for sure!

 

[Ed209]

On average, a sporting event is around 90dbs. When the fans are cheering and yelling it can easily scale up to 100+ dbs. I would NEVER go to one without ear plugs.

If I get exposed to such levels, I will use sound therapy for a day or two to calm the nasty spikes down...

Some can reach those levels for sure, but as far as the premier league goes (which I have more experience with), the levels have been professionally measured and the leq for the loudest game averaged 85dB. That is loud. I've used my meter at a few games and it was in the same ball park as the reported figures in the article.

There are two things to consider. Some use phone apps to measure noise which are not very accurate (especially on certain devices) and often over-represent the real world figures. Secondly, 85dB is louder than what most people seem to realise based on what I often read on here. I've trained in sound engineering and have dealt with setting up big rigs for events and also have experience with noise limiters. 105dB is gig territory and I consider this level of noise to be in a completely different league to both bars and sporting events. The difference is night and day.

Another misrepresented medium is the cinema. I've seen silly figures like 130dB mentioned which is nonsense. No one would sit through a film at those levels as it exceeds the pain threshold. I'm a huge movie buff and the average film in the UK measures in the 60 decibel range for dialogue scenes, 70's for musical parts and slight action, and the 80's for action scenes. The leq wouldn't be very high for a drama, for example.