Outdoor Concert & Tinnitus

[ampumpkin]

Coming up June 21st, I have tickets to see Maroon 5 in Montreal at an outdoor concert. It's my favorite band.

In the past, I've been to concerts with earplugs and to the Monster Trucks wearing ear muffs. Since my last exposure to loud noises, my T has increased, like I mentionned before, due to ototoxic meds.

So the concert will be the first time that I'm around very loud noises with my new louder T.

I was thinking of wearing earmuffs again which block most noises but am also wondering if this is enough? Should I wear ear plugs in the ear muffs? Should I just avoid going to the concert altogether?

what is your advice on this?

 

[Grace]

Yeah wear earplugs under the muffs just to be safe, i know alot of people will probably tell you not to go and that decision totally lies within you..we can still enjoy live music just protect your ears and dont be right up by the speakers. Take breaks every 25 minutes or so too. I went to my first karaokee few weekends back for like 4 hours and the dj was pretty loud it was in a lil bar but i wore plugs and took breaks.. It was funn. Just be smart about it and you should bee okayyy

 

[ampumpkin]

is it safe if I wear plugs UNDER the muffs??

 

[awbw8]

is it safe if I wear plugs UNDER the muffs??

I can't imagine that wouldn't be safe. As for the rest, I feel the same as @Grace. I've gone to live music with plugs, but if you're nervous enough that you're wanting to wear muffs and earplugs - that's a lot. Might be more peaceful to skip out, but I think you'll probably be fine if you're careful.

 

[ampumpkin]

I wonder if the plugs under the muffs can cause pressure to my ears or something like that...

sorry, first live show with my new T... don't want to damage my ears even more!

 

[bill 112]

Speaking from personal experience it can be risky...after my first year with T it eventually disappeared so I went to a club with ear plugs and took regular breaks I wasnt even near the music that long and my T came back stronger than ever,but if your careful you should be fine and just try and enjoy the night.

 

[Stina]

As Sheldon Cooper would say, its like with Schroendingers cat. You wont know whether the cat is dead or alive until you let it out of the box. You can ask questions but you wont know whether its safe or not until you try it.

 

[LadyDi]

I think outdoor concerts are a lot easier to deal with than indoor ones. Sound doesn't bounce around as much. I was at a huge festival over the summer, 100,000-plus people. Wore musicians plugs, with ear muffs on top, and sat waaayyy back from the speakers (and still could hear fine). No problems.

 

[ampumpkin]

LadyDi, what is the cause of the T?

 

[LadyDi]

Hi @ampumpkin: My tinnitus is not noise induced. It was caused by barometric trauma that came from taking a long overseas airplane flight while I had an undetected sinus infection. I do have a slight hearing loss at very high frequencies due to inner ear damage.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Either a person is for or against. Which is why I don't normally comment on these kinds of threads (because... it's pointless).

There is only one way to guarantee not to get burnt... and that is by not playing with fire in the first place.

I leave it, as an intellectual exercise, to determine - from the above statement - whether I am for or against.

(In case anyone is still unsure - here's a clue: our inner ears and the stereocilia wihin are a fine piece of biological machinery, and should not be treated like doormats...)

Below, examples of stereocilia and... stereocilia which has been... blown away!

Good luck with the concert...

 

[ampumpkin]

I'm sorry if I offended you @attheedgeofscience ... most people say that people with T should "live a normal life" but protect their hearing... I am still worried and wondering to what extent should one with T live a normal life...

 

[Stina]

I'm sorry if I offended you @attheedgeofscience ... most people say that people with T should "live a normal life" but protect their hearing... I am still worried and wondering to what extent should one with T live a normal life...

A normal life doesnt necessarily have to involve loud music

 

[ampumpkin]

it would be nice to find out if people in my situation went to a concert with hearing protection and everything turned out fine...

 

[citigirl13]

it would be nice to find out if people in my situation went to a concert with hearing protection and everything turned out fine...

Was your T noise-induced? If it is then I would be very careful about going. I am sorry to say I have read stories about people have gone to concerts and suffered from their T. I think you should live your life the way you want it to - but I would consider that your T could get louder from this concert and ask yourself whether you would be able to deal with it. Protect your hearing no matter what. And I would agree with @Stina - living normally does not necessarily mean having loud music in your life.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I'm sorry if I offended you @attheedgeofscience ... most people say that people with T should "live a normal life" but protect their hearing... I am still worried and wondering to what extent should one with T live a normal life...

Thanks. And no need to feel sorry; after all it is your ears - and not mine...

But now you (and others) know where I stand on the matter. Only you can decide for yourself in the end.

If I ever were to become prime minister of some country in the world, the very first thing I'd do, would be to ban all the senseless concerts and impose strict loudness "quotas" on public gathering events such as car shows, cinemas, restaurants, shopping malls, and many other things. In fact, when it comes to noise pollution, the "whole deal" should be run like a dictatorship - because frankly people, doctors, and the general public have no clue until... it is too late. And then they care...!

As I have stated in some of my earlier posts, once I am done with my experimental tinnitus treatments, the very first thing I will do, is to contact EU health representatives and push for noise legislation within the EU. Assuming my treatments go to plan, that is. Otherwise you (and others) can find me at the local cemetery in... Leipzig!

"The day will come when man will have to fight noise as inexorably as cholera and the plague."
--Robert Koch, Microbiologist and Nobel Prize Winner

 

[ampumpkin]

@attheedgeofscience I tried sending you a private message but I don't think you accept those... Wanted to ask you a few questions...

 

[jazz]

@ampumpkin I'm sure ATEOS will give you excellent advice. But let me add that since you recently aggravated your tinnitus, you might have new damage. If you want to return to baseline, I would not risk re-injuring your ear. Your ear is still sensitive and will injure more easily than before.

I'd wait a year before going to a concert with protection.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@attheedgeofscience I tried sending you a private message but I don't think you accept those... Wanted to ask you a few questions...

Ask away...

 

[ampumpkin]

I was just wondering what was the cause of your T. What happened in 2013...

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I was just wondering what was the cause of your T. What happened in 2013...

It is not clear what happened. But I have had three ear infections in my left ear which I have treated with wide spectrum antibiotics (ear drops) of the type called Ciprofloxacin (Ciloxan):



Normally, these ear drops should be safe - provided the eardrum is intact. But it is debatable whether an intact eardrum is sufficient to not cause damage to the inner ear when using ototoxic ear drops. I have significant hearing loss in the higher frequencies (> 8 kHz) which is a strong indication of ear drop ototoxicity.

At least, I feel that this has been a contributing factor; I have not been to a single concert in my whole life...

The ear drops above cost about 5 US dollars. I have now spent in excess of USD 50.000,- to try to repair the damage they caused...

 

[LadyDi]

I know I would support laws that would mandate noise levels in public places. I mean, in the U.S. I can be assured my lungs won't be damaged by someone's second-hand smoke while I am eating dinner in a restaurant, but I can get my ears blown off by the restaurant's "background music." And I'm not talking about night clubs, which I simply avoid.

 

[Grace]

it would be nice to find out if people in my situation went to a concert with hearing protection and everything turned out fine...

Everyones different, and i know everyone with T is scared of loud noise, i was terrified but i learned to not let it scare me to the point where if theres something i wanna do that involves it, i wear earplugs and take breaks. I could stay home but i did that for monthes and got nothing out of it but fear of the unknown... The only thing i wouldnt go to now is a club.. And an indoor concert thats Just asking for louder T... im not constantly around loud noise so if theres something i wanna do or if plans pop up unexpectly that involve loud noise, im not scared anymore. I just will never abuse it again like i did before. Ofcorse if i woke up with louder T tommorrow my attitude would change, id be terrified again in panic.. But then like the last time you slowly come back to not bein afraid again. So it sounds like life with T could be a rollercoaster and ofcorse i dont want my T to get louder but i will protect my ears my bestest and it shouldnt.. And same with you liveeee life and enjoy with caution!!!!!

 

[Grace]

And i agreee also that you dont have to be around loud noise to have funn i love having bonfires and enjoy plenty of stuff that doesnt involve tearing my ears apart!!

 

[MikeA]

Last month I went to a club to see some old friends of mine play a reunion gig. I struggled mightily with the decision whether to go or pass, as I experienced a spike/increase (since abated much) earlier this year. Crazy? Maybe. My strategy? I've purchased a sound meter and repeatedly checked level. Used 33 dB NRR earplugs. I also intentionally planned to arrive halfway through their set, limiting myself to around one hour total time. Hanging out afterward and reminiscing about the good old times is actually more enjoyable. I also stood to side of stage, not out front. Noise level was 95-100 dB. So I figured only 65-70 dB was getting to my inner ear. Doesn't seem like much from what I understand. I can report that everything worked out quite well. Use of a sound level meter along with the most robust ear plugs seems like the way to go. The meter actually fit in my back pocket.

 

[Ken219]

Either a person is for or against. Which is why I don't normally comment on these kinds of threads (because... it's pointless).

There is only one way to guarantee not to get burnt... and that is by not playing with fire in the first place.

I leave it, as an intellectual exercise, to determine - from the above statement - whether I am for or against.

(In case anyone is still unsure - here's a clue: our inner ears and the stereocilia wihin are a fine piece of biological machinery, and should not be treated like doormats...)

Below, examples of stereocilia and... stereocilia which has been... blown away!

Good luck with the concert...

View attachment 1907

Okay now you scared me. Is that actual pictures of inner ear cells?

 

[Ken219]

Thanks. And no need to feel sorry; after all it is your ears - and not mine...

But now you (and others) know where I stand on the matter. Only you can decide for yourself in the end.

If I ever were to become prime minister of some country in the world, the very first thing I'd do, would be to ban all the senseless concerts and impose strict loudness "quotas" on public gathering events such as car shows, cinemas, restaurants, shopping malls, and many other things. In fact, when it comes to noise pollution, the "whole deal" should be run like a dictatorship - because frankly people, doctors, and the general public have no clue until... it is too late. And then they care...!

As I have stated in some of my earlier posts, once I am done with my experimental tinnitus treatments, the very first thing I will do, is to contact EU health representatives and push for noise legislation within the EU. Assuming my treatments go to plan, that is. Otherwise you (and others) can find me at the local cemetery in... Leipzig!

"The day will come when man will have to fight noise as inexorably as cholera and the plague."
--Robert Koch, Microbiologist and Nobel Prize Winner

Can you imagine a weapon that destroys the cholera. Scary!

 

[Ken219]

Last month I went to a club to see some old friends of mine play a reunion gig. I struggled mightily with the decision whether to go or pass, as I experienced a spike/increase (since abated much) earlier this year. Crazy? Maybe. My strategy? I've purchased a sound meter and repeatedly checked level. Used 33 dB NRR earplugs. I also intentionally planned to arrive halfway through their set, limiting myself to around one hour total time. Hanging out afterward and reminiscing about the good old times is actually more enjoyable. I also stood to side of stage, not out front. Noise level was 95-100 dB. So I figured only 65-70 dB was getting to my inner ear. Doesn't seem like much from what I understand. I can report that everything worked out quite well. Use of a sound level meter along with the most robust ear plugs seems like the way to go. The meter actually fit in my back pocket.

95 100 DB you are assuming your earplugs were inserted to their optimum. Me no thank you.

 

[Ken219]

ampumpkin, I think with your doubt you answered your own question.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Okay now you scared me. Is that actual pictures of inner ear cells?

Yes; Stereocilia = inner ear hair cells.

Admittedly, the picture previously shown depicted ototoxicity induced inner ear damage, but the difference between that and noice is pretty much the same. Proof? Well, here you go:

One of things I absolutely will be taking up with health officials in the EU is the distribution of free earplugs at concerts/festivals. The fact that condoms are handed out for free at (some) festivals tells me that health officials are actually present in making health decisions, but that their focus is not in the right place; because the very first thing that should be handed out at festivals is free earplugs! Then, they can start handing out condoms, free water bottles, set up first aid tents, and whatever else...

Here is a sample of stereocilia while still in pristine condition (the kind most of us on this board don't have):

While still in pristine condition, hair cells will move as a bundle (you can see how they are connected to to each other in this excellent photo):

When completely damaged, hair cells will not regrow; only in birds and fish is regrowth possible - but even for fish and birds, the regrown hair cells are not of the same quality as the ones we are born with, see picture essay B below, far right (hearing threshold starts at about 20-25 db; the equivalent of stage I hearing loss):

The implication of the above information is that even if we manage to harness the power of gene therapy - such as the research undertaken by GenVec - we will not restore our hearing to what it was. Only some yet-to-be-developed embryonic stem cell therapy would be able to achieve that; and trust me - it will be many, many years before we ever get to a stage where (1) the research has been done and (2) developed for human use. Many years...!

So in a nutshell, that's why it is important to protect the hearing we have, while we have it. And it is also the reason why doctors and health officials have absolutely no clue about the dangers of hearing loss and the impact on society; because if they did, they would already have taken "quick-win" steps to create public awareness, enforce noise quotas, ensure free earplugs at festivals, etc. These are such simple and cost effective steps that could be taken!

And here is the consequence: