REM Sleep & Tinnitus Diminishment

[mrbrightside614]

Watching "The Mind Explained" on Netflix and they explained that REM plays a role in our ability to forget things, which got me thinking—since tinnitus disrupts our sleep architecture, it's possible that REM dysfunction is culpable for chronic tinnitus sufferers' inability to "forget" the signal. It's also possible that REM sleep could be responsible for the subtle decrements in tinnitus perception over time, for those recover/ed/ing.

Lol they're talking about CBT now.

 

[FGG]

Maybe this is a variable, who knows? It would be interesting to see a study if those who slept better had less long term maladaptive plasticity.

I think it would have to be an especially well controlled study because if you just used a retrospective study it would be confounded by the fact that many (most) tinnitus sufferers who suffer from chronic insomnia often take sleep aids and many of these (esp benzos) interfere with slow wave (non REM) deep sleep which is where memory is consolidated.

 

[mrbrightside614]

Maybe this is a variable, who knows? It would be interesting to see a study if those who slept better had less long term maladaptive plasticity.

I think it would have to be an especially well controlled study because if you just used a retrospective study it would be confounded by the fact that many (most) tinnitus sufferers who suffer from chronic insomnia often take sleep aids and many of these (esp benzos) interfere with slow wave (non REM) deep sleep which is where memory is consolidated.

I thought about the benzo angle on REM as well. I think the single most objectively damning factor of tinnitus lies in its role of affecting sleep architecture. I don't care if you're habituated or not, physiological responses don't lie; you're worse off and will age faster with any impediments to restorative mechanisms.

 

[Phat Tuna]

Dunno bout all that. But I do know that sleep is the most important aspect of maintaining good health. So getting good sleep should absolutely help against tinnitus.

 

[Mister Muso]

I always woke several times in the night, but since getting tinnitus my dreams seem more vivid. I was first aware of this whilst on amitriptylene which is known to cause vivid dreams, but I've been off that medication for a few months now and yet my crazy dreams are continuing.

Either the drug has permanently affected the amount and nature of my dreams, or I'm just more aware of it now.

I had the weirdest dream the other night where I was at a bar, and the band was about to come on. So I went out to the car in the parking lot where I'd left my extra earplugs. Tried various different styles of plug. The first set were the exact size and shape of wine glasses. I was somehow able to get the base of each glass inside my eardrum, but I could not force the rest of the glass into my ear! The second type I tried were like normal foam earplugs, but they were attached to a large stuffed monkey that had to perch around one side of my head! I thought nah, too conspicuous. So I just went back inside with my regular musician's earplugs in.

 

[GlennS]

My dreams are also becoming increasingly vivid/lucid, which is really the only upside of my worsened tinnitus.

I don't know all the reasons why but it's probably a combination of me taking a night-time cocktail of supplements and feeling the need to fall asleep to YouTube or the TV, plus the overall rolling insomnia where I typically don't get to sleep until at least 1:30AM. But I usually have the most vivid sleep during my first sleep cycle and my last early in the AM. When I'm almost done sleeping and the sun is already up I'm often in a half-sleep state where I can consciously toss and turn and yet my tinnitus seems low to nonexistent. It's a weird and depressing feeling to finally wake up and the tinnitus sort of fades back in like cranking up a volume knob. If I could only somehow bottle whatever my body does that cuts off the tinnitus...

 

[HeavyMantra]

Weed messed with REM sleep in a big way. Could be interesting to know in the context of this thread

 

[mrbrightside614]

I always woke several times in the night, but since getting tinnitus my dreams seem more vivid. I was first aware of this whilst on amitriptylene which is known to cause vivid dreams, but I've been off that medication for a few months now and yet my crazy dreams are continuing.

Either the drug has permanently affected the amount and nature of my dreams, or I'm just more aware of it now.

I had the weirdest dream the other night where I was at a bar, and the band was about to come on. So I went out to the car in the parking lot where I'd left my extra earplugs. Tried various different styles of plug. The first set were the exact size and shape of wine glasses. I was somehow able to get the base of each glass inside my eardrum, but I could not force the rest of the glass into my ear! The second type I tried were like normal foam earplugs, but they were attached to a large stuffed monkey that had to perch around one side of my head! I thought nah, too conspicuous. So I just went back inside with my regular musician's earplugs in.

My dreams are also becoming increasingly vivid/lucid, which is really the only upside of my worsened tinnitus.

I don't know all the reasons why but it's probably a combination of me taking a night-time cocktail of supplements and feeling the need to fall asleep to YouTube or the TV, plus the overall rolling insomnia where I typically don't get to sleep until at least 1:30AM. But I usually have the most vivid sleep during my first sleep cycle and my last early in the AM. When I'm almost done sleeping and the sun is already up I'm often in a half-sleep state where I can consciously toss and turn and yet my tinnitus seems low to nonexistent. It's a weird and depressing feeling to finally wake up and the tinnitus sort of fades back in like cranking up a volume knob. If I could only somehow bottle whatever my body does that cuts off the tinnitus...

Brahs, if you enjoy dreaming (I usually don't—not exactly nightmares but rather really unpleasant surfacing of deep subconscious anxieties and pleasures that I'll possibly never achieve again) try galantamine. It's supposed to help lucid dreaming. I used it for a couple nights and definitely had more vivid, lengthened, involved dreams. I created some kind of multi-level wall-ball game that was a race against the clock once, which was pretty sweet but I'm pretty sure it took some regenerative quality away from the sleep because of how involved it was.

The best dream I've had since having tinnitus wasn't under the influence of galantamine, though. My brother had dormed with Donald Glover and I remember being in some kitchen smoking weed with DG and remarking how it was amazing that I hadn't noticed my tinnitus at all. I was aware that I had tinnitus in the dream, but that it was gone, and I was carrying on as normal. Only with a megacelebrity.

P.S. Glenn I have that same character to my tinnitus waking volume knob.

Weed messed with REM sleep in a big way. Could be interesting to know in the context of this thread

THC suppresses REM, confirmed. Every time I took a break from my medical (I have UC which is literally the least of my worries now) I had heavy REM rebound and usually unpleasant dreams for the next three days or so. Not a reason to quit, nor a reason to not take breaks from weed, personally. Tinnitus spiking? Absolutely yes. 100% painfully sober in all areas now.

 

[GlennS]

I'm pretty sure it took some regenerative quality away from the sleep because of how involved it was.

Is it really true that lucid dreams are "lower quality" in this way?

 

[mrbrightside614]

Is it really true that lucid dreams are "lower quality" in this way?

It's hard to separate my general fatigue in the earlier days of suffering from the regenerative quality of the sleep overall. Maybe a 5% decrement in energy levels, but it could've been a fluke. I still have a lot of galantamine. Maybe I'll try it again. Trying to string a few good days together and don't want to tamper with any variables.

 

[bobvann]