The U-mark is another test put in the same audiogram (LDL, loudness discomfort levels). There you can see how sensitive I am to certain frequencies.
16 kHz Hearing Loss — Intratympanic Steroids or Stem Cells?
- Thread starter vttbx
- Start date
I mean that, for instance, if you have a dip of lets say 30 dB at 6kHz your tinnitus can get reactive when you are exposed to sounds at 6kHz over 35+ dB, for some people it gets more reactive when the sound is low and constant, for others when it is louder and sudden… it depends. But basically my personal feeling first of all with severe hyperacusis and then with a combination of hyperacusis (or recruitment), tinnitus and some hearing loss is that very often some sounds hit you at a certain pitch and volume and cells on the cochlear ramp fire up really loud. This used to happen to me with certain female voices; it was pleasant, not uncomfortable, the voice was really enhanced. But the negative side of this is that it also happens with nasty sounds like car horns, a power saw, stuff like that, dishes clanking etc And if the sound is objectively loud enough (95+ dB in general) depending on how you are feeling, if your ears are blocked, you have a cold etc etc, inflammation, it may make some damage, that is cumulative over time. This is just personal experience anyway..
Yea sort of, my highest tone is a electric hiss around 16 kHz. But that one is not my most annoying tone. I have a load of other tones.
I must have synapse damage, because my hair cells seem just fine for my age (33 y).
ManagerUncomfortable. Apparently this sort of diagram can be obtained separately and is referred to as UCL (Uncomfortable loudness Level), but in the posted diagram it's overlaid on a pure tone audiogram.
Source: http://dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/hearing/hyperacusis.htm
After the noise trauma I've got really sensitive to noise. I was at my worst when this audiogram was made, back in July 2019. I was literally house bound at that time.
Even if my audiogram looks good I have multiple tinnitus sounds. When I was at my worst I had 10 different tones, high pitched, low pitched, ringing, humming, whistling.
Now I'm left with 3-4 tones. I'm soon 9 months in with this hell.
From my audiogram you can't really see how I'm suffering. My tinnitus ranges between a 3-8. It fluctuates alot. Also my tinnitus is reactive in a way that it buzzes over other sounds. Nothing can mask this, not even the shower, because I hear my tinnitus all the time.
I think that's what he means, yeah. I can tell you I have that now. It's what I referred to as resonance in a recent post. I think that's caused by the internal amplifier ramping up the gain at those missing frequencies. That's plural, because you can hardly be missing one single frequency, but one frequency may be more prominent than others.
I'd say that's around 6 kHz. What do you say @Mymlan ? Am I right?
See I don't normally do planks!
I started exercising regularly in March last year when I became unemployed again, partly because I was bored and wanted to have something to do, partly because I needed to strip off a few kilograms before my abdominal surgery in May. I then got addicted to going to the gym. I started feeling good about myself, even though I was unemployed and felt useless at times. Exercising was a way for me to run away from my troubles. I don't know why but staying physically active somehow kept my mild tinnitus at bay, so there is that as well.
I started getting some nice results too. I lost about 12 kg from March to December last year, and I was slightly overweight when I started. And then... what do you I got hit by this now... by doing a stupid plank.
Walking, jogging and sprinting on the treadmill was my favorite game. I also learned how to skip the rope like a pro, and I went from not being able to do a single pull up to doing 3 in a row by the end of December.I have not been to the gym in a week now. I feel like my whole life is at a pause right now. I will probably not see the gym again in at least a month, if at all.
I just hope this is temporary and that my tinnitus will go back to its baseline...
Haha! I just read "spot on" message next to your cat avatar with open mouth. Great comic effect!
See?! I told you so @HeavyMantra
As I said... "That's plural, because you can hardly be missing one single frequency, but one frequency may be more prominent than others."
Most of us have more than one sound. Even when we think it's one sound, it's really more than that, but we may not become aware of the other sounds until later on. The most prominent noise tends to be centered around 4 to 8 kHz.
I understand. With those LDLs is normal to be house-bound. 9 months is not much time for hearing to heal. Try to be very cautious with sound, but try to have sounds you like around you at home. It will make a difference. I have been where you are, but without bad tinnitus, I had severe hyperacusis, and eventually it changed. I can do more things now, but also got some hearing loss.. you never know with hearing, it is quite unpredictable how it is going to evolve.
Haha niceHaha! I just read "spot on" message next to your cat avatar with open mouth. Great comic effect!
See?! I told you so @HeavyMantra
As I said... "That's plural, because you can hardly be missing one single frequency, but one frequency may be more prominent than others."
Most of us have more than one sound. Even when we think it's one sound, it's really more than that, but we may not become aware of the other sounds until later on. The most prominent noise tends to be centered around 4 to 8 kHz.
You seem to know a lot about tinnitus! I just hope that a recovery is still possible for me, even with that dip at 6 kHz... My tinnitus changes constantly, so it's hard to get used to it. Sometimes it lowers which make me believe that it will fade, and then it's back obviously.
Why is it that the most prominent noise tends to be around 4-8 kHz?
What was the trauma? I know the feeling. I was also more or less house bound when this all started for me, and I am house bound now that it has worsened.
See! That's an improvement.
I can!
That's how I have it now. I can hear it in the shower for example. That's the reactive component of it I think. If I shut the water off I can still hear my tinnitus, but it's different.
It is. Your hearing is still very good. Don't lose that. And don't lose hope.
I know that feeling. I have had episodes where my tinnitus would be all gone in the early mornings during transition between deep sleep and wake state. I would always think that it might stay that way... but then a few seconds later it would start coming back into my head.
That's a good question. One for the researchers to try and answer for sure. It's just a trend I have seen on these forums, just by talking to people and seeing their audiograms. Mine is also between 5 kHz and 6 kHz by the way.
"I just hope that a recovery is still possible for me, even with that dip at 6 kHz."
That sharp dip I think is a signature of tinnitus induced by a loud noise event, like a gun going off close to the ear, or other event that can cause an acoustic trauma.
Mark A
Member
Doesn't pretty much everyone loose hearing at 16 kHz early in life? Even in your 20's 16 kHz begins to fade.
MemberI thought the same and was never tested that high. I'm in my 50s and I'm -40dB at 16k. What was I before? Probably -20dB? I can explain this very easily. Music sounds all mid-range and harsh. I can hear a tone from a space heater that I never heard before because the "air" is gone.
I have super weird music distortions, too. In fact I can't listen to music at all anymore. The only audiogram changes I have are above 12000 Hz.
If you read a lot about monitoring for ototoxicity, they recommend extended audiograms up to 16000 Hz because when your auditory system is damaged, that's usually the most susceptible range. I think it could definitely be true for other etiologies of hearing loss.
I do wonder if in addition to losing the upper end, the extended audiogram is also a "canary in the coal mine" for IHC or synaptic damage that may be occuring further down.
Thank you
My hyperacusis is a lot better now. I work and go on with my life most of the time.
You mean -20 dB in your 40s? I have been doing my own hearing tests with a smartphone for the last couple of days, and yesterday I discovered that it has a feature where it tells you, statistically, how old your hearing is. My hearing is that of a 57 year old. But I do have a sudden onset of very bad hearing loss on my left ear at the moment, all the way down to -45 dB at 1 kHz for example.
@Mymlan I forgot you can actually use a smartphone app to do an extended hearing test at home. It may not be as accurate as a professional hearing tester but it's something, and you can see relative changes in your hearing ability over time if you collect enough data points.
I use one called Hearing Test by "e-audiologia.pl". You can find it here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mobile.eaudiologia
This app is for Android devices and unfortunately it's not available for iOS devices, but I'm sure there is something similar out there for those of you that use iOS devices.
Otherwise your hearing is normal, in the lower frequency range? How do you measure these high frequencies? Is this something you do at home with a smartphone or you found an audiologist that offers extended hearing tests?
I agree.
A: Audiometry up to 8 kHz should be done to test if someone is a good candidate for hearing aid.
B: Auidometry up to 16 kHz should be done to test someone's hearing for the sake of testing hearing ability.
But hey, it's not up to me... if it were, things would be different.
If you use option B, there is no reason why you can't use the collected data to establish if someone is a good candidate for hearing aid (option A) since that test encompasses what is needed (125 Hz to 8 kHz) for that. I guess it all comes down to money and serving an interest group. Doing extended audiograms requires investing in more expensive equipment and calibrating it, and it takes more time to administer the test. Time is money, even if it only takes 5 minutes more per patient to do the test. And if you are just serving the hearing aid industry, what's the point of doing that extra high frequency test?
Thanks for sharing that expression! I learned something new today.
(It means "early warning signal".)I will rephrase what I think you meant to say.
"Besides allowing us to see if there is any hearing loss in the upper end [of hearing spectrum], I do wonder if the extended audiogram could also serve as a "canary in the coal mine" [early warning] for IHC or synaptic damage that may be occurring further down [in the cochlea]."
This is a completely logical presumption. Besides, what do we have to lose not doing extended hearing tests? In any area of medicine, getting diagnosed and catching the early warning signs is the best way to a successful treatment.
Even if there are no treatment options available, I for one don't like to live in oblivion. I would like to know if there is something bad going on, so that I can prevent any further damage.
God I hate those things... how far away were you from it? I just passed by one of those this morning as I was going to see if I can get a doctor's appointment. But I could hear it from the distance. Since my left ear is currently very bad I could not distinguish what it was until I could see it in plain sight. I was like 50 meters away from it. Thankfully I had my ear plugs with me. So I put them in.
As someone with hearing loss and tinnitus, you get a new perspective on these sort of things. It's interesting to see so many people moving and passing by that thing, without any ear protection (not that I know of). Yet, the two construction workers both had ear muffs on. I just hope they were not listening to music through them... you know the kind that comes with Bluetooth and radio built in.
Also... there never is any "Danger!" sign or a fenced parameter around these things... because people don't perceive sound as being a danger. I mean... would you not want to protect people around loud machines? You know, just as you would want to protect them from falling into an excavated hole in the ground? This just tells you how little people appreciate their ears, and how low the awareness of the dangers of sound is. You know... hammer jack operator playing music in his earmuffs (protecting himself from the loud machine yet having music blare in his ears)... bypassers not being aware of the danger, and bystanders listening to music in their earbuds and these fancy new "AirPods"... that sort of thing. People don't even talk to each other anymore, everyone is obsessed with texting on their smartphones and playing music. Oh well... they will understand what I mean soon enough.
- Oct 19, 2019
- 862
- Tinnitus Since
- 2016/2017/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown
@Samir
People are just not aware or have the "it's not going to happen to me" mindset. My dad watches closely what's happening to me, how very badly I'm affected by tinnitus, and I can't make him to wear ear protection while using power tools, going to concerts. I was the same though, never thought that sounds could be dangerous. Because of genetics, I expected that I'd be loosing some of my hearing by the time I'm 60is, but not this horror.
People are just not aware or have the "it's not going to happen to me" mindset. My dad watches closely what's happening to me, how very badly I'm affected by tinnitus, and I can't make him to wear ear protection while using power tools, going to concerts. I was the same though, never thought that sounds could be dangerous. Because of genetics, I expected that I'd be loosing some of my hearing by the time I'm 60is, but not this horror.
That's the thing. It's not just hearing loss and tinnitus... it's life in general! You don't know what you have until you have lost it. That's the sad truth. Life does not come with a manual. And even if it did, we would not read it. Just like we don't heed other people's advice. We are all flying by the seat of out pants.
@Samir I question that everyday, where was the "danger sign"??
They started that loud machine out of nowhere. I couldn't see anyone, and this happened on the weekend so I thought that no one was there. I think they stood pretty close to were I was walking, maybe just a few meters away. There were a lot of people passing this tunnel, including a friend of mine and her daughter.
It wasn't even my stupid idea to walk down in the tunnel in the first place. It was my friend's idea and she didn't even developed tinnitus, and I hardly believe anyone else did except me.
I never had any problems with my ears before this happened
It's like I died that day. All my dreams got flushed away.
They started that loud machine out of nowhere. I couldn't see anyone, and this happened on the weekend so I thought that no one was there. I think they stood pretty close to were I was walking, maybe just a few meters away. There were a lot of people passing this tunnel, including a friend of mine and her daughter.
It wasn't even my stupid idea to walk down in the tunnel in the first place. It was my friend's idea and she didn't even developed tinnitus, and I hardly believe anyone else did except me.
I never had any problems with my ears before this happened
It's like I died that day. All my dreams got flushed away.
There, there...@Samir I question that everyday, where was the "danger sign"??
They started that loud machine out of nowhere. I couldn't see anyone, and this happened on the weekend so I thought that no one was there. I think they stood pretty close to were I was walking, maybe just a few meters away. There were a lot of people passing this tunnel, including a friend of mine and her daughter.
It wasn't even my stupid idea to walk down in the tunnel in the first place. It was my friend's idea and she didn't even developed tinnitus, and I hardly believe anyone else did except me.
I never had any problems with my ears before this happened
It's like I died that day. All my dreams got flushed away.
This is why I hate tunnels!
You never know what kind of monster will jump out in front of you at the end of the tunnel. What you describe sounds a bit like a prank that went bad, and your friend was in on it. 
Well I never knew her quite well, and we are not friends anymore.There, there...
This is why I hate tunnels!
Prank... this is like a blasting damage.
Sometimes people do reckless things just for some laugh. That reminds me of Judge Rinder and the case where two good friends take their pranks to a whole new level and end up in court.
I know the feeling. But try not to think negatively. You will survive this. It's not the end of the road. And if you do have a dream, something you want to do in life, you hold onto that dream and make it real.
Well she didn't try to prank me. She was just very stupid, because she knew that they were working over there that day. She did put her own baby at a high risk, and so did I. The difference is that she knew, and I did not. I don't hate her and this is my fault as well, but I never want to see her again, ever.Sometimes people do reckless things just for some laugh. That reminds me of Judge Rinder and the case where two good friends take their pranks to a whole new level and end up in court.
I know the feeling. But try not to think negatively. You will survive this. It's not the end of the road. And if you do have a dream, something you want to do in life, you hold onto that dream and make it real.
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