2 Firecrackers Blowing Up Just Now!

[linearb]

for me, worrying about a spike is more likely to cause one than noises under about 115db are.

 

[Jiri]

Dear @Jiri ,
You have been through so much noise related and a emotional breakdown and a car accident so never likely your having an emotional wobble at the moment and noisy ears.
For now do everything you can just to unwind and relax and know your safe in your home.
Keep relaxing music on and think im going fill my day finding nice things to listen too and not think of the loud sounds.
You will get through this when your thoughts become better ones and leave whats in the past as that carn't be changed.
Tinnitus can be mental torture but you will gain strenght from what you have been through and eventually come out the other end smiling .
The crash can cause a added emotional wobble but the wobbles will soon settle and stronger face your future.
Love glynis x

There's a saying, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? I don't think so. There's no question I'm a 'little' mentally unstable now. Everything seems to be falling a part. I returned home from the UK to finish my thesis in peace, get a good grade, get my M.A. and MAY BE one lucky day a Ph.D. so I can make the positive change in the world. I need silence to be able to concentrate and that's the one thing I don't have now. It's ridiculous, really.

Another thing is, I developed a strong hyperacusis. I'm afraid to listen to my once favourite music even on loud volume, I don't watch movies anymore, I'm on a ton of drugs, wherever I go I wear my Peltor earmuffs which amplify the sound of my tinnitus... I just don't see the way out of this vicious circle. I feel like I need someone to show me the right path to walk, the things to do to get out of this. I don't have parents. Just old grandparents. It should be me helping them. They're in their mid 80's I see them slowly leave this world. Gosh, I need a guidence or a miracle. Btw some docs in this counry can be proper a$$*****, as if they don't give a damn and feel bothered by your presence. So what do you do? Hang yourself?

One last "funny" thing to end this, I went to our scientific library and got a book specialy written for the medical personale aiming at Otoneurology and Tinnitology. There is literally a step by step guidence on what to do during the first month of onset of tinnitus with every single procedure explained, all the drugs and their dosings to safe the patient. What to do when and in which order i.v. + also planning HBOT. During my first month of onset I went to see 5 ENT docs in 5 different hospitals, even a uni teaching hospital NOT one of them did what was described in the book. And this book is a Uni study material for ENT medics. *Sigh*

 

[Jiri]

for me, worrying about a spike is more likely to cause one than noises under about 115db are.

Well, that's good for you I guess.

 

[glynis]

@Jiri,
So nice to have grandparents I miss mine so much but treasure all my memories of them.
Try not be to hard on yourself ,I like to think that eeverything works out in the end but some people have a rocky road to get their.
You keep your dreams as a goal and try get support for hyperacusis and build up your confidence because you are as important as everyone else even with our silly ears playing tricks.
Love glynis x

 

[Jiri]

just stop reading bill bauers post, it will be good for you

Why is that so? He's very knowledgeable imo.

 

[Jiri]

@hans799 @Tinker Bell @Tweaker @glynis @Bill Bauer @linearb

Just wanted to thank you all for taking the time reading and replying to my thread. You did provide me with advice that gave me some relieve.

Best wishes,

Jiri

 

[JurgenG]

This is golden. Thanks so much. Is 90 dB safe tho? It can still cause a spike, or not?

I know I am anxcious all the time as well, so I understand your pain. But honestly, how can you not be exposed to periodic spikes of over 90 dB, do you live in an isolated room all the time? No offense, just try to see that this is normal noise, and you were more than enough protected, I'd be only worried if I was outside to be honest, and even than 30 meters is far enough. (But I would be stressed out as well.)

You have to stop feeding the fear, trust me on this one..

 

[Jiri]

I know I am anxcious all the time as well, so I understand your pain. But honestly, how can you not be exposed to periodic spikes of over 90 dB, do you live in an isolated room all the time? No offense, just try to see that this is normal noise, and you were more than enough protected, I'd be only worried if I was outside to be honest, and even than 30 meters is far enough. (But I would be stressed out as well.)

You have to stop feeding the fear, trust me on this one..

I trust you but I also develepod a bad hyperacusis. I still don't know in my 3rd month where my threshold is for a spike to occur. I used to wear both earplugs in and earmuffs on when I left the house. Now I sometimes wear my Peltor earmuffs even at home, when washing the dishes, brushing my teeth, vacuum cleaning (I got the Electrolux Silencer Zen just 58 dB - I still use earmuffs). I'm scared even if someone closes the door loudly. I NEVER leave the house without my Peltor earmuffs on - 27 SNR. Dude, I was in a mental house go figure... just don't know what to do.

 

[Bill Bauer]

how can you not be exposed to periodic spikes of over 90 dB

The number of times I have been exposed to spikes like that over the past 40 years had been really small.

vacuum cleaning

Peltor muffs are not enough protection when it comes to vacuum cleaning. Ask someone else to do this for you.

 

[Rubenslash]

Why is that so? He's very knowledgeable imo.

He has been the creator of what I call the "Anxiety movement" on this forum. He acts as if moderate sounds are damaging whereas this is not true. I mean, can you really take someone serious who is protecting his ears for closing a microwave?

 

[Jiri]

Peltor muffs are not enough protection when it comes to vacuum cleaning. Ask someone else to do this for you.

We already spoke about it - Electrolux Silencer Zen just 58 dB + Earmuffs.

He has been the creator of what I call the "Anxiety movement" on this forum. He acts as if moderate sounds are damaging whereas this is not true. I mean, can you really take someone serious who is protecting his ears for closing a microwave?

He is btw also a professor of a quantitative science at a university and a creator of this thread: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/spontaneous-recovery-stats-many-recover-3-studies.21441/

Have had tinnitus for longer than me, and thus is more experienced. So who else I should listen to? Tell me? Any audilogist or ENT doc that knows actually smth about tinnitus on this forum? Who's right and who's wrong?

 

[Rubenslash]

We already spoke about it - Electrolux Silencer Zen just 58 dB + Earmuffs.


He is btw also a professor of a quantitative science at a university and a creator of this thread: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/spontaneous-recovery-stats-many-recover-3-studies.21441/

Have had tinnitus for longer than me, and thus is more experienced. So who else I should listen to? Tell me? Any audilogist or ENT doc that knows actually smth about tinnitus on this forum? Who's right and who's wrong?

The thing is that a limited amount of people here (probably about 5-10% and especially new joiners) including Bill tell you to protect for all sounds, even moderate 65dbish sounds. The other 95% tell you to get on with your life and just stay away or protect from damaging noise (above 77 to 85 db depending on duration), yet some people here blindly follow the 5%.

I don't understand your point about his experience with tinnitus. He got tinnitus for about 6 months longer than you, but many people from the "95% group" got tinnitus for decades..

I guess the problem is that 50% of the people on this forum have an anxiety problem and therefore will just believe whatever someone says who "plays" on that anxiety without using any common sense.

If Bill's approach was that good, it would be described everywhere on the internet as a cure for tinnitus, no? Yet I have never read a single article from a decent source that recommends to stay away from all noise.

 

[Aaron123]

I went to our scientific library and got a book specialy written for the medical personale aiming at Otoneurology and Tinnitology.

What book?

 

[Bill Bauer]

I mean, can you really take someone serious who is protecting his ears for closing a microwave?

Back when I had serious H, the sound of my microwave operating and its door closing had been bothering my ears. I listened to my body, ensured that my ears could heal without being subjected to noises that felt too loud, and as a result my H is completely gone now and now I can enjoy being around a microwave without any hearing protection.

You have to stop feeding the fear, trust me on this one..

Dude u will be fine, u were inside and 30m away... just stop reading bill bauers post, it will be good for you

He acts as if moderate sounds are damaging whereas this is not true.

Is it Really not true? We get testimony like the one below at least once a week around here (sometimes it happens almost every day).

I got numerous spikes by being at a bar without earplugs, being at a mall without earplugs, walking next to a busy road without earplugs, standing next to a door that slammed loudly, being next to a cryinh baby, being at the library (alarm came on) without earplugs. My Tinnitus has gotten worse and my spikes are more severe now. I didnt think that moderate sounds can hurt me in the beginning, but now I am convinced that moderate sounds can hurt us. I thought if i go to the mall without eaprlugs nothing will happen it is not a club or cinema, well i got a major spike that lasted four days.

I am not sure why you insist on not learning from people's mistakes. I am also not sure why you continue giving advice that has the potential to physically harm people.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I like this Medical Practice guide.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0194599814545325

 

[Bill Bauer]

He is btw also a professor of a quantitative science

Unfortunately, the above implies that my background is neither in biology nor in medicine.

The other 95% tell you to get on with your life and just stay away or protect from damaging noise

As I pointed out (numerous times), 1000 positive experiences don't prove that an activity is safe. One negative experience proves that it is unsafe. Countless negative experiences (of people who assumed that moderate noises are harmless) have been shared on this forum. Now it IS possible, likely even, that moderate sounds can make T worse only for a subset of current T sufferers. One can easily find out which group one belongs to. Expose yourself to some moderate noises. If you get a spike, you are in the group that nobody wants to be part of, and you should act accordingly. If you are ok, then you ought to thank your lucky stars. It does NOT mean that you should tell everyone to be like you and to do things that would be considered reckless if the person doing those things is part of that vulnerable group.

As for the number of people advising one to "live your life" and to "not let T win" - the fact that on this forum (where people whose T hasn't gone away gather) more people recommend one to "live your life" is very informative. It seems to imply that those who chose this strategy are less likely to see their T fade. My T HAD faded when I began protecting my ears. I slid back as a result of secondary acoustic traumas that could have been prevented had my old self been following my current self's advice to be serious about protecting my ears from moderate noises.

If Bill's approach was that good, it would be described everywhere on the internet as a cure for tinnitus, no? Yet I have never read a single article from a decent source that recommends to stay away from all noise.

http://hyperacusisfocus.org/research/earplug-use-2/
"While there are over 2200 posts on hyperacusis setbacks in the patient forum on chat-hyperacusis.net, no academic papers could be found using a pubmed search."
If nobody had ever studied what causes T and H setbacks, nobody will be able to tell you what strategies to follow in order to avoid those setbacks.

 

[Aaron123]

Unfortunately, the above implies that my background is neither in biology nor in medicine.

So is your background in biology or medicine or 'quantitative science'?

 

[Bill Bauer]

So is your background in biology or medicine or 'quantitative science'?

Like I said, it is NOT in biology and it is NOT in medicine. It is in an unrelated, quantitative field.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I like this Medical Practice guide.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0194599814545325

Despite the high prevalence of tinnitus and its potential significant effect on quality of life, there are no evidence-based, multidisciplinary clinical practice guidelines to assist clinicians with managemen

This report is helpful and informative. Thank you, Greg! I will post a quote from this report into my Stats and "What I Learned Thus Far" threads.

 

[Aaron123]

As for the number of people advising one to "live your life" and to "not let T win" - the fact that on this forum (where people whose T hasn't gone away gather) more people recommend one to "live your life" is very informative. It seems to imply that those who chose this strategy are less likely to see their T fade.

It actually doesn't imply that at all.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Now that I think of it, it makes sense for the initial group that chose to protect their ears to be smaller than the group that chose not to protect their ears. People tend to look for the easy way out. They also tend to prioritize their short term well being over their long term well being. If fewer people experiment with protecting their ears from moderate noises to begin with, we would expect for fewer people to be advocating such a strategy. A number of people on this site who have adopted this strategy are graduate students or had earned a doctorate degree. I guess people who are concerned about their long term well-being are more likely to choose to study over partying and to choose to protect their ears over that tempting "live your life!" strategy.

It actually doesn't imply that at all.

Are you saying that even if more people recover in the group that protected their ears from mild noises, what might be driving this are the characteristics of this group that caused them to choose to be more careful around sound in the first place? Is that your critique?

They might be willing to sacrifice more for the sake of their health than the people in the second group. As a result they choose healthier diet, and many other healthy habits.

I can't think of any other relevant characteristics. My advice is to pull out all stops. That includes protecting your ears from even moderate noises. Of course you should also be doing everything else you can do to promote your healing.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Bill Bauer

http://www.counselheal.com/articles...dy-highly-recommends-ear-plugs-loud-areas.htm

then there's this

http://hyperacusisfocus.org/research/earplug-use-2/

 

[Bill Bauer]

@Bill Bauer

http://www.counselheal.com/articles...dy-highly-recommends-ear-plugs-loud-areas.htm

This is an interesting study!

The main outcome of the temporary threshold shift (TTS) after the festival of which the scientific team gauged had a sound pressure level of 100 A-weighted decibels (dBA) for every participant; was that 8 percent of those wearing an ear plug recorded a TTS unlike 42 percent of those non-ear plug wearers.

The above shows that 8% of Healthy people don't get enough protection when wearing earplugs at loud events. Perhaps many of those 8% are T sufferers (about 10% of the population have T)...

I wish they were to repeat this study while focusing only on T sufferers and on places where the noise is only moderate.

 

[Jiri]

What book?

HAHN, Aleš. Otoneurologie a tinitologie. 2., doplněné vydání. Prague: Grada Publishing, 2015. ISBN 978-80-247-4345-5.

 

[Jiri]

Unfortunately, the above implies that my background is neither in biology nor in medicine.

Yes, but it also implies that there is no question about your intelligence.

 

[Jiri]

http://hyperacusisfocus.org/research/earplug-use-2/

I like the second article better. I was overusing earplugs and now my GP wants me to stop using them. They caused some redness and a mild pain in my left ear so I now also have to use ear drops.

"The overuse of hearing protection is almost universally discouraged based on evidence that it will lower loudness thresholds over time. Risks of overprotection include increased auditory gain, anxiety induced hypersensitivity, and reinforcement of negative associations with sound."

Precisely. Now, how do you get rid of hyperacusis and find the right balance between over- and underprotection?

 

[Bill Bauer]

Yes, but it also implies that there is no question about your intelligence.

My guess is that my IQ is normal at around 100. As a result, being successful in grad school required a lot of effort on my part. In any case, my background allows me to use that Google Scholar tool to find papers relevant to our condition. I also have had a lot of experience looking for useful information in published papers in the fields that I am not familiar with.

Now how do you get rid of hyperacusis and find the right balance between over- and underprotection?

What had worked for me was protecting my ears whenever I was outside, and watching TV while setting the volume to the Loudest level I could comfortably listen to for several hours without getting a spike.

 

[Jiri]

He has been the creator of what I call the "Anxiety movement" on this forum. He acts as if moderate sounds are damaging whereas this is not true.

Ok, fine define please in dB what a moderate sound is? Just to get a better picture.

I don't understand your point about his experience with tinnitus. He got tinnitus for about 6 months longer than you, but many people from the "95% group" got tinnitus for decades..

Yes, but his tinnitus has actually improved over the time. After suffering 2 bad acoustic traumas within 3 months time span. I know we're all individuals and suffered from different type of traumas but I want to listen to those who have some advice to share on how to improve your T over time. And if overprotection is the way to let your ears relax as much as possible and it worked for some then so be it... you know what I mean. Then you get hyperacusis ofc.

There should be some guidelines somewhere for different types of tinnittus sufferers on how they should lead their lives what to do, what to avoid, what noise is too much, and etc.

Otherwise you just listen to the more experienced members with a similar trauma to yours on this forum seeking help and an advice. Especially if their avatar says "hall of fame" I assume.

 

[Aaron123]

Are you saying that even if more people recover in the group that protected their ears from mild noises, what might be driving this are the characteristics of this group that caused them to choose to be more careful around sound in the first place? Is that your critique?

They might be willing to sacrifice more for the sake of their health than the people in the second group. As a result they choose healthier diet, and many other healthy habits.

I can't think of any other relevant characteristics. My advice is to pull out all stops. That includes protecting your ears from even moderate noises. Of course you should also be doing everything else you can do to promote your healing.

You said:

As for the number of people advising one to "live your life" and to "not let T win" - the fact that on this forum (where people whose T hasn't gone away gather) more people recommend one to "live your life" is very informative.

You've made assumptions about the likelihood that tinnitus does or doesn't go away based on whether someone posts to this site with no evidence to support these assumptions. There are millions of people whose tinnitus "hasn't gone away" who don't "gather" here. My guess is the vast majority of them go about their lives and are doing just fine, but of course the statistics to track this over time do not exist.

In terms of your discussion of some underlying characteristic, I don't accept your premise. There's no evidence that the degree of protection you advocate is helpful in the long term. I think it's entirely possible that some of the folks with repeated so-called acoustic traumas and resulting spikes have set themselves up for this through a cycle of increasing over-protection.

 

[Bill Bauer]

You've made assumptions about the likelihood that tinnitus does or doesn't go away based on whether someone posts to this site with no evidence to support these assumptions.

What I had in mind is described by a simple model below.

time = 0
the population of new sufferers who join this forum is split between two groups - one protects against mild noises, the other one doesn't. If the number of people in the population is T, and a and b are the numbers of people in the two groups, then T = a + b.

time = 1
Let the fraction that don't recover in the first group be y, and let the fraction that don't recover in the second group be z. Suppose x<z. People who get better tend to leave the forum. For simplicity, assume that 100% of those who recover leave the forum.

It is likely that a<b, as people tend to maximize their short term well being over their long term well being (the evidence for this is that most people don't strive to get an A+).

So at t=2, the number of people from t=0 cohort that are still around is given by T(ay + bz). The fraction of people from the first group is ay/(ay+bz). The fact that a<b, and y<z implies that ay<<bz.

The model above is consistent with what an observation that we have been trying to explain.

Of course what we really care about is whether y is less than z. The greater is y compared to z, the less likely we would be to observe what we have been observing.

But you are right, "implied" was not the right word to use. I wrote "seems to imply" as I tried to convey that there is a hint at a possible link, and not a proof of a link.

There's no evidence that the degree of protection you advocate is helpful in the long term.

The countless people who regret not protecting seem to be providing evidence that Not protecting will lead to a worsening. Protection might or might not make you better, but it will reduce the possibility that you will be worse.

I think it's entirely possible that some of the folks with repeated so-called acoustic traumas and resulting spikes have set themselves up for this through a cycle of increasing over-protection.

I got most of my secondary acoustic traumas before I began protecting against moderate noises, or soon after. After I have been protecting for some time, I experienced being able to handle louder noises with no problem.