After the Initial Ear Protection: How Far Should I Go?

[Bill Bauer]

That might depend on the type of driving and speed. 25 mph on city street versus 60 mph on highway.

I'm not sure though, I should check next time.

It still had never occurred to me that driving on a highway can be that loud. This might explain why it felt good to be wearing noise-cancelling headphones the last time I had to be on a highway.

 

[Tinker Bell]

I protect at 90 sustained.

Pubs. 15db reduction.

Car rides hit 85. If it's a 90 min plus ride ill wear one plug

Do you have tinnitus in one ear? Just wanted to clarify one plug.

Mine is in one ear, so I only use one ear plug. Except for one time at a recent event that was crazy loud. Then I used both and made a mental note to get ear protection for my kids, too.

 

[TuneOut]

That might depend on the type of driving and speed. 25 mph on city street versus 60 mph on highway.

I'm not sure though, I should check next time.

Yes. It also depends on the car. Lexus's are very quiet cars. My girlfriends old Honda Civic was really loud on the freeways. The condition of the road influences noise alot, too. Trucks tend to be louder than cars.

 

[light rain]

Interesting. I love going for drives often with the windows open. Only traffic or other sounds bother me like motorcycles or horns or sirens. I can't drive long distances though - about an hour is my limit. And oddly super quiet cars add to my motion sickness sensitivity. I find it unnerving and disorienting.

 

[Ed209]

@TuneOut, if you consider me buying an SPL meter, so I could (and still can) measure various different conditions, to see how loud things are, nonchalant, then that's your prerogative. I've spent around £400 or more on ear protection (£250 on moulded ACS pro's with 3 filters and solid caps; £100 on passive headphones for flights; £20 on Alpine classics; £20 on muffs; and around £20 on various different disposable plugs including Hearos xtreme, airplanes and Macks wax plugs).

I'd consider my approach to be more realistic, and less fear based. To begin with, this forum almost made me afraid to step outside of my house, and I realised something had to give because my life was being severely comprised. So yea, on many levels, T can absolutely incapacitate you psychologically if you let it, and it's an easy route to giving yourself a form of misophonia or phonophobia.

I know my limits and I ALWAYS protect in environments where I know I'm going to be exposed to sounds that are SUSTAINED above 80db - 85db. If this level is less for some users then that's fine as well. But, I see far too many people who advise an overzealous approach that certainly doesn't benefit the statistical majority. It can lead to a very unhealthy relationship to sound.

Since I've accepted my T, and adapted my behaviour to sound, I've improved significantly. My perception to the sounds in my head has improved, and I feel like my overall anxiety levels relating to external sound are also much better. The professionals who deal with these cases everyday (audiologists, ENT's etc) also advise this approach. They are very much against overprotection.

 

[maltese]

They are very much against overprotection.

Yes. Mostly because of negative psychological impact of overprotection.

You can't forget about tinnitus if you're afraid of sounds and are wearing plugs all the time.

My T started improving when I stopped overprotection.

 

[Bill Bauer]

The professionals who deal with these cases everyday (audiologists, ENT's etc) also advise this approach. They are very much against overprotection.

The only thing ENTs know about T is that there is no cure. So they tell you - try to get used to it, there is nothing you can do, might as well pretend that you have healthy ears.

However, judging by posts made on this forum, I can see that a number of people eventually get better (not habituate, but actually get lower volume). Many others report permanent spikes as a result of not protecting their ears. Others report T getting louder after not protecting their ears. I don't think that anyone has studied what habits lead to people getting better. So the ENTs wouldn't know, even if they were to care to look into it.

 

[Ed209]

The only thing ENTs know about T is that there is no cure. So they tell you - try to get used to it, there is nothing you can do, might as well pretend that you have healthy ears.

However, judging by posts made on this forum, I can see that a number of people eventually get better (not habituate, but actually get lower volume). Many others report permanent spikes as a result of not protecting their ears. Others report T getting louder after not protecting their ears. I don't think that anyone has studied what habits lead to people getting better. So the ENTs wouldn't know, even if they were to care to look into it.

Bill, it's not just ENTs: audiologists, hearing therapists, professors and researchers almost unanimously agree that overprotecting your ears is a bad idea.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Bill, it's not just ENTs: audiologists, hearing therapists, professors and researchers almost unanimously agree that overprotecting your ears is a bad idea.

I guess it all depends on how one defines "overprotecting". Perhaps what they have in mind is wearing earplugs 24/7. Of course doing that would eventually cause H or even an ear infection.

 

[Tinker Bell]

I guess it all depends on how one defines "overprotecting". Perhaps what they have in mind is wearing earplugs 24/7. Of course doing that would eventually cause H or even an ear infection.

My audiologist and ENT gave me a chart showing decibel volumes and acceptable exposure times. They encouraged me to use ear protection only when everyone else should use it, and then we talked about how people in general really do not protect their ears like they should to prolonged loud noises.

 

[Bill Bauer]

They encouraged me to use ear protection only when everyone else should use it

I think that doing so will result in temporary (hopefully) spikes. I interpret these spikes as a message from my body. I think it makes sense to listen to your body. If you don't get spikes, then I guess it makes sense to not overprotect your ears.

 

[Tinker Bell]

I think that doing so will result in temporary (hopefully) spikes. I interpret these spikes as a message from my body. I think it makes sense to listen to your body. If you don't get spikes, then I guess it makes sense to not overprotect your ears.

By spikes do you mean temporary louder ringing that lasts a few seconds/minutes or louder tinnitus that lasts days? I always get confused on that point.

Mine gets louder to lots of random noises (water running, plastic bags) but it settles down relatively quickly. I feel like it rings louder time wise in relation to however long I was exposed to the noise.

Honestly, it's all confusing and sometimes overwhelming. Right now, I wear an ear plug when I'm exposed to loud environments where I have to raise my voice to be heard. I'm not sure if it helps, but from a psychological standpoint I think it might because I don't worry that I've hurt my hearing so I don't focus on whether my tinnitus has changed.

 

[Bill Bauer]

By spikes do you mean temporary louder ringing that lasts a few seconds/minutes or louder tinnitus that lasts days? I always get confused on that point.

I believe the term for the former is "fleeting T". I used the word "spikes" to mean the latter.

Right now, I wear an ear plug when I'm exposed to loud environments where I have to raise my voice to be heard.

If I were you, I wouldn't be IN environments like that for at least a year, possibly two...

Mine gets louder to lots of random noises (water running, plastic bags) but it settles down relatively quickly. I feel like it rings louder time wise in relation to however long I was exposed to the noise.

My interpretation (that might be completely wrong) is that your body is trying to tell you that those sounds are not ok. Try to stay away from activities that involve those sounds (ask a family member to handle the bags and even wash the dishes for the next 3 months), and if you absolutely can't stay away, then wear ear protection. Get yourself in an environment where your T does not get louder as a result of something you do.

 

[MJv]

I think there must be a reason; we just can't always find it.

Maybe, maybe not. Still if you know the reason a fact is, it got worse.
And no cure for it

 

[Ed209]

My interpretation (that might be completely wrong) is that your body is trying to tell you that those sounds are not ok. Try to stay away from activities that involve those sounds (ask a family member to handle the bags and even wash the dishes for the next 3 months), and if you absolutely can't stay away, then wear ear protection. Get yourself in an environment where your T does not get louder as a result of something you do.

This is not good advice in my opinion. Tinnitus is known to be associated with deeper processing centres of the brain. It's theorised that once signals travel from the ear to the auditory cortex, caudate and putamen, then they make their way to other regions of the brain where more sophisticated processing takes place. This involves memory, and your brain interpreting the meaning of the sound, whilst giving it emotional significance. There are various studies that have been carried out on the brain of people with tinnitus vs people without using MEGs and EEGs. What's usually always apparent, is that the tinnitus brains have other areas activated, with neurons firing in synch with the auditory cortex. It's like a complex web of connections. Many believe that the way we deal with tinnitus (especially early on) has ramifications on how the brain learns to deal with the problem. If the amygdala attaches relevance to it, then it's likely our emotions will also be caught up in it, creating a heightened perception.

Our behaviour can be an important factor in how the problem gets handled. Some of the overprotective, and avoidance practices, attach significant weight to the tinnitus signal in your subconscious. The brain is smart, and will learn to ignore it if you don't become highly anxious over it. Loud noise is a common trigger, but the way we deal with the aftermath can lead to further problems if we let it get out of control.

I'll just add that you're all free to do and believe as you wish. I'm only giving my opinions based on my experiences. Do some research into tinnitus; specifically the brain, as there's some interesting information out there.

 

[TuneOut]

My audiologist and ENT gave me a chart showing decibel volumes and acceptable exposure times. They encouraged me to use ear protection only when everyone else should use it, and then we talked about how people in general really do not protect their ears like they should to prolonged loud noises.

That chart doesnt apply to us. We are no longer like "everyone else." They have no clue.

 

[JurgenG]

I protect at 90 sustained.

Pubs. 15db reduction.

Car rides hit 85. If it's a 90 min plus ride ill wear one plug

That's quite a lot. A lot depends on the car, road and tires. My is mostly around 70 but can get 75.

 

[TuneOut]

Bill, it's not just ENTs: audiologists, hearing therapists, professors and researchers almost unanimously agree that overprotecting your ears is a bad idea.

Maybe it's better to be a little too afraid than not afraid enough. How many people have developed tinnitus and just carried on with their lives, only to overexpose their ears again and make things alot worse? Phonophobia isn't permanent.

 

[JurgenG]

Maybe it's better to be a little too afraid than not afraid enough. How many people have developed tinnitus and just carried on with their lives, only to overexpose their ears again and make things alot worse? Phonophobia isn't permanent.

Well in a sense, wish I did, after my first exposure I went to a party. And at some point I even ditchted the earplugs,since it was a lot quieter. Needless to say, I had a huge Spike and setback. I didn't think that I could get worse from the things I did before without earplugs without a problem.

 

[Ed209]

Maybe it's better to be a little too afraid than not afraid enough. How many people have developed tinnitus and just carried on with their lives, only to overexpose their ears again and make things alot worse? Phonophobia isn't permanent.

I disagree completely. Being afraid is a huge part of the problem. If you overexpose your ears knowingly, then it comes down to stupidity (or lack of education). You do not have to be in a constant state of fear to know that you should wear earplugs in a noisy environment (or leave if it's stupidly loud).

Wearing earplugs around the house is asking for trouble. It further anchors your negative emotional attachment to sounds, which can then be associated with your ongoing perception of tinnitus. You will also stress yourself out, making your endocrine system produce more stress hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline, which are also known to negatively impact tinnitus. This in turn can also impact your sleep hygiene which also has an ongoing affect. It's a slippery slope, and anecdotally, I hardly ever see any positive posts from people who are constantly protecting their ears. They seem to stay in a constant state of negativity and only seem to have problems with their T.

But, when all is said and done, it's a free world so you have to make your own choices. I'm only here to try and help others from my own experiences. Many people leave the forum once they get over the initial acute phase, so I think it's vital that new users see the views of more experienced posters. I've already felt enough stress (in the early days) to sink the Titanic, so I don't think some of the advice here will necessarily help new members.

Dealing with severe H is a seperate issue, but it is also recommended that you gradually re-introduce your auditory system to louder and louder sounds. Not to isolate yourself.

 

[JurgenG]

I disagree completely. Being afraid is a huge part of the problem. If you overexpose your ears knowingly, then it comes down to stupidity (or lack of education). You do not have to be in a constant state of fear to know that you should wear earplugs in a noisy environment (or leave if it's stupidly loud).

Wearing earplugs around the house is asking for trouble. It further anchors your negative emotional attachment to sounds, which can then be associated with your ongoing perception of tinnitus. You will also stress yourself out, making your endocrine system produce more stress hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline, which are also known to negatively impact tinnitus. This in turn can also impact your sleep hygiene which also has an ongoing affect. It's a slippery slope, and anecdotally, I hardly ever see any positive posts from people who are constantly protecting their ears. They seem to stay in a constant state of negativity and only seem to have problems with their T.

But, when all is said and done, it's a free world so you have to make your own choices. I'm only here to try and help others from my own experiences. Many people leave the forum once they get over the initial acute phase, so I think it's vital that new users see the views of more experienced posters. I've already felt enough stress (in the early days) to sink the Titanic, so I don't think some of the advice here will necessarily help new members.

Dealing with severe H is a seperate issue, but it is also recommended that you gradually re-introduce your auditory system to louder and louder sounds. Not to isolate yourself.

I think I agree (or want to agree) most with your advise. But I figured, I f*cked up, which got me here, might as well be super protective the first months to be sure. But we need to let go of that, sooner or later.
Frankly it's a normal human reaction, we want to compensate for what we did wrong, and it sounds logical that this could help us.
But the more I read, the more I think that overprotecting doesn't add to anything.

 

[Ed209]

I think I agree (or want to agree) most with your advise. But I figured, I f*cked up, which got me here, might as well be super protective the first months to be sure. But we need to let go of that, sooner or later.
Frankly it's a normal human reaction, we want to compensate for what we did wrong, and it sounds logical that this could help us.
But the more I read, the more I think that overprotecting doesn't add to anything.

How long have you been dealing with T now Jurgen? I totally understand your predicament, because I was in your shoes struggling to cope for a long time.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't protect your ears, that would be crazy.

 

[JurgenG]

How long have you been dealing with T now Jurgen? I totally understand your predicament, because I was in your shoes struggling to cope for a long time.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't protect your ears, that would be crazy.

5,5 months. Things have been up and down, still disbelief most of the time.
Like "the headphone was loud, but could it really gave me permanent T and so on"
"The party was not that loud to give me a permanent worsening or was it?".

So after those things I started protecting like a mad-man. Living like half an hermit, and even today I still refuse to do certain things. I got scared of running, so I stopped after half a running-competition, because I was afraid it could worsen my T. And somehow it did get worse that evening.
Was it because I was afraid of it, or because it's actually bad, who knows.
This thing is so unpredictable and irrational that we tend to be irrational.

I agree that we need to just be logical, but it is sometimes hard in the face of this -thing-, which doesn't want to follow any rules..

You know I've had periods of it almost dissapearing, two weeks ago I had a solid week of it being gone in the morning. "Gone enough"
Only to come back after a while, which makes you wonder. "Where did I f*ck up?"
"Did I click/clear my Eustachian tubes too much, too uncareful" "Was it that loud thing near me a couple of hours ago" "Was it the running" "Was it because I snapped my neck"
And so on..

 

[Ed209]

5,5 months. Things have been up and down, still disbelief most of the time.
Like "the headphone was loud, but could it really gave me permanent T and so on"
"The party was not that loud to give me a permanent worsening or was it?".

So after those things I started protecting like a mad-man. Living like half an hermit, and even today I still refuse to do certain things. I got scared of running, so I stopped after half a running-competition, because I was afraid it could worsen my T. And somehow it did get worse that evening.
Was it because I was afraid of it, or because it's actually bad, who knows.
This thing is so unpredictable and irrational that we tend to be irrational.

I agree that we need to just be logical, but it is sometimes hard in the face of this -thing-, which doesn't want to follow any rules..

5 and a half months is nothing. I was up and down more than a whores panties around this time. Protect your ears, or better yet, avoid loud places until you start to stabilise your emotions. Don't wear earplugs around the house or when you're just out and about. Eat well, exercise, and plough all your energy and motivation into doing something you enjoy. You have to disassociate yourself from your tinnitus, because otherwise you'll be like I was, constantly monitoring it obsessively. I'd wake up in despair every morning because of the noise. The noise would hit me like a ton of bricks (really piercing) and I'd immediately feel depressed. All day tinnitus would be on my mind; it's all I would think about and it took over my life. It takes time to break free of this negative cycle.

 

[Themoon]

Ok, so currently I am protecting my ears from anything above 70 dB. This is getting quite old in the daily live.

My question to the more "experienced" guys, how much do I need to keep protecting in the near future?

Festivals, bars and other constantly loud situations are pretty easy: yes.

But for instance a situation where the dB peaks from 60 to 90 from time to time.
A car-drive that is around 70 dB.
etc..

My T ranges from 0,5 on the very best days (mostly in the morning) to 3 at the worst.

I would say that you have a good behavior. Protect yourself is the best thing. I should have protected myself at the beginning.

I would say 75 db, protect your hearing from obvious loud sounds. I would never advise someone with T to attend a concert again or going to gigs even with protections. There are so many things to do that are not noisy, meeting your fnds at a coffee, having dinner with friends at home or at quiet restaurants, sport, reading, seeing family, listening to music at a reasonnable volume at home on your PC, going to the beach, etc... So it's not living like an hermit but be careful about your ears is really important. I rather change my life style and find some relaxing hobbies that help letting my mind off than doing like the others and baring the nightmare of a spike or a T getting louder.

As I said in one of my threads, when random spikes coming with no reason, I'm not stressing out that much cause I know that it's maybe due to fatigue or stress and will go down again. But If I have done sthg suscpetible to hurt my ears, my anxiety is jumping t the roof.

I agree with Ed, you have to find moments to relax yourself and enjoying life.

 

[Themoon]

"the headphone was loud, but could it really gave me permanent T and so on"

I hope yo stopped listening with headphones or earbuds. These things are really dangerous and destry the ear. We don't need earphones to listen to music.

 

[JurgenG]

I would say that you have a good behavior. Protect yourself is the best thing. I should have protected myself at the beginning.

I would say 75 db, protect your hearing from obvious loud sounds. I would never advise someone with T to attend a concert again or going to gigs even with protections. There are so many things to do that are not noisy, meeting your fnds at a coffee, having dinner with friends at home or at quiet restaurants, sport, reading, seeing family, listening to music at a reasonnable volume at home on your PC, going to the beach, etc... So it's not living like an hermit but be careful about your ears is really important. I rather change my life style and find some relaxing hobbies that help letting my mind off than doing like the others and baring the nightmare of a spike or a T getting louder.

As I said in one of my threads, when random spikes coming with no reason, I'm not stressing out that much cause I know that it's maybe due to fatigue or stress and will go down again. But If I have done sthg suscpetible to hurt my ears, my anxiety is jumping t the roof.

I agree with Ed, you have to find moments to relax yourself and enjoying life.

Well, my problem is that I loved going to parties and festivals. You won't see me clubbing though.
And adding that to that I sometimes need/like to go to festivals for my job.
That's the most difficult decision.

I hope yo stopped listening with headphones or earbuds. These things are really dangerous and destry the ear. We don't need earphones to listen to music.

I actually almost never listened to music via earbuds. I sometimes need headphones for my job for communication, I only use them very silently though.

 

[Applejuice]

Concerts bring a certain risk and it is up to you but I won't be going to them anymore.

I also don't think it is smart to blast music in the car for example or using power tools. Stuff like that.

How have you been living lately? No tv? No conversations? Don't you have H?

 

[JurgenG]

Concerts bring a certain risk and it is up to you but I won't be going to them anymore.

I also don't think it is smart to blast music in the car for example or using power tools. Stuff like that.

How have you been living lately? No tv? No conversations? Don't you have H?

I don't do anything noisy. I haven't been going to parties, except a wedding last week. I limit my exposure and used my -28 dB plugs.

Sometimes I am in loud places for my job, football-stadiums etc. I try to be extra careful.
I never used headphones except when I need them.

Other than that I try to live normally.

I don't have H.

 

[Applejuice]

I don't do anything noisy. I haven't been going to parties, except a wedding last week. I limit my exposure and used my -28 dB plugs.

Sometimes I am in loud places for my job, football-stadiums etc. I try to be extra careful.
I never used headphones except when I need them.

Other than that I try to live normally.

I don't have H.

Ok then it is good. Really living like a hermit isn't good for H which can worsen T.