Agnostics “R” Us...
- Thread starter Jazzer
- Start date
Member
Elmer B Fuddled
Member
- Feb 11, 2019
- 1,329
- Tinnitus Since
- 2017
- Cause of Tinnitus
- plugged nasal eustachian tube
If the churches were made to pay their fair share of taxes like any other business, no more no less, they would at least be contributing something to society.
- May 16, 2017
- 3,754
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Syringing + Somatic tinnitus from dental work
The only constitutionally valid way of taxing churches would be to tax all nonprofits, which would place undue financial pressure on the 1,000,000 public US charities/services, which would include tinnitus orgs.
Sorry for the dark text, can't see.
- Jun 8, 2018
- 159
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud sound via earbuds from a digital device.
In the past, I thought we should be taxing churches in the USA since that would be real money. Then I found out how the amount of money the governments would get was not much really if they did tax churches. Here is s good article on that if you want to read it:
What If We Taxed Churches?
The employees of churches do pay income taxes and the churches do keep some people employed. Thus I became less upset by their not paying taxes as businesses do. Well, better to say some businesses do since some major corporations manage to pay none or low levels of taxes given the write-offs and loopholes.
If you want to read something somewhat odd with the Catholic Church then read this:
The Catholic Bishops' Brawl Over Denying Joe Biden Communion
You may not know that the USA Catholic Bishops are arguing in public over should they deny Biden (a devout Catholic) and all USA Catholic politicians communion if they support abortion rights. Then this from the article:
"How can it be that the Church here is putting President Biden in the dock, while last month Catholic officials in London abruptly cleared Westminster Cathedral for the wedding of two baptized Catholics, the twice-divorced Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his live-in paramour, who bore their child last year?"
By Catholic dogma, Prime Minister Johnson is quite the sinner at first look. But not so fast maybe all the rules were followed by the Prime Minister and his new wife:
Boris Johnson had every right to be married in the Catholic Church
Got to make one wonder to be sure and in some ways a source of amusement from time to time these churches but I find the Catholics particularly amusing given my past with them.
Here is an excellent argument for taxing the Churches, written by a member of the Roman Catholic Church, on a website that claims to be a continuation of the old Daily Worker newspaper, and very progressive. Interestingly, I agree with the author and I am not politically progressive, a communist, or religious.
Render unto Caesar now: Should we be taxing the churches?
Render unto Caesar now: Should we be taxing the churches?
- May 16, 2017
- 3,754
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Syringing + Somatic tinnitus from dental work
Posting again because I have an interest in social $ economics. I don't want to share thoughts per this subject thread as most have sensitive medical conditions, but most posters are not being manipulative or posting immature insinuations.
If churches lose non-profit status, they will be able to do the opposite of 1-4:
Jeopardizing Tax-Exempt Status All IRC Section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches and religious organizations, must abide by certain rules:
1. Their net earnings may not inure to any private shareholder or individual;
2. They must not provide a substantial benefit to private interests;
3. They must not devote a substantial part of their activities to attempting to influence or manipulate legislation;
4. They must not participate in, manipulate or intervene in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.
If churches lose non-profit status, they will be able to do the opposite of 1-4:
Jeopardizing Tax-Exempt Status All IRC Section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches and religious organizations, must abide by certain rules:
1. Their net earnings may not inure to any private shareholder or individual;
2. They must not provide a substantial benefit to private interests;
3. They must not devote a substantial part of their activities to attempting to influence or manipulate legislation;
4. They must not participate in, manipulate or intervene in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.
- Jun 8, 2018
- 159
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud sound via earbuds from a digital device.
All interesting points Greg.
With points #1 & 2 currently in the USA we have the Internal Revenue Service that oversees those points having been starved for funds by Congress for the last 10 years. They are so starved they don't have enough staff to even answer taxpayer questions by phone or email during the year. The calls literally are unanswered. Here is a good article on that issue:
How the IRS Was Gutted
And another about it here:
Hiding in Plain Sight: A Nonprofit Fraud Story
With points #3 & 4 the law allows the following to happen with churches:
"Federal law does not restrict a church's nonpartisan speech. In practice, this means that a church may freely encourage its congregation to vote. It may also do other things that touch upon political matters, including:
- Providing members of the congregation with nonpartisan information about issues in an election.
- Organizing voter registration drives.
- Hosting candidates as speakers, provided that each candidate on the ballot is given an equal opportunity to participate.
- Holding discussions about the relationship between church doctrine and ballot issues."
Political Activities by Churches: What's Permitted and What's Prohibited
Here is another article on "organizations" not just Churches in the same vein:
Can Nonprofits Be Involved In Political Campaign Activity?
In the USA there is little to no question that Churches and non-profits are involved in political action that impacts elections.
The bottom line being the Churches and non-profits (both right and left-wing) are already politicking all over the place is my take. I would also say the "right-wing" side of the equation is much more organized and energized than the "left-wing" types in these kinds of efforts.
Ah, the joys of being retired. Plenty of time to investigate and contemplate issues.
Elmer B Fuddled
Member
- Feb 11, 2019
- 1,329
- Tinnitus Since
- 2017
- Cause of Tinnitus
- plugged nasal eustachian tube
Elmer B Fuddled
Member
- Feb 11, 2019
- 1,329
- Tinnitus Since
- 2017
- Cause of Tinnitus
- plugged nasal eustachian tube
So did anyone see the amount of paedophiles the French Catholic church discovered? Something like 3000 of them. Fuck it. I'm going to go pray.
- Jun 8, 2018
- 159
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud sound via earbuds from a digital device.
Yep. Then it is not just Catholics as likely you know:
"The revelations at Oakwood occurred as the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest protestant denomination in the country with 15 million members, faced a crisis over sexual abuse that echoes the scandal in the Catholic Church. After a joint investigation by the Houston Chronicle and San Antonio Express-News last year documented abuse in Southern Baptist churches spanning 20 years and 700 victims, SBC leaders faulted a "culture of casual indifference to predatory sexual behavior."
'The tongue is a fire': Southern Baptist church fractures over secrets and spiritual abuse
Sad situation to be sure.
That's way too drastic. I'd probably just clean up a little around the apartment, and put the kettle on.
- May 16, 2017
- 3,754
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Syringing + Somatic tinnitus from dental work
@Henry Orlando FL, we have lots of agreement.
My first employment was that of a non-profit financial auditor and compliance specialist for federal funds that went to States. My region was the Boston Tea Party State.
Part of my responsibilities was non-profit - Section 501(c)(3) compliance. Lost employment after two years due to federal budget cutbacks. I then decided to go into medical which was my other college major, but I managed stock investments for others as well. I had mentioned this before on this site.
I tested out of high school and went straight to a private college. Then after that, I went to another private college for four years. During college at my young age, I was naive or had a lack of adult experience.
Became wise, during mentioned first employment. I could have written a book on the wrong doings of others. Later, I could had written a second book on games that hospital employees and doctors play.
I find your postings interesting. I liked reading about your experiences. I have been contemplating the two federal government bills. I feel that most of the free money should be given to the disabled and the elderly. Social Security and Medicare need funds.
Sorry for any mistakes - as I can't see what I'm typing. It took me 30 minutes to read your last post.
My first employment was that of a non-profit financial auditor and compliance specialist for federal funds that went to States. My region was the Boston Tea Party State.
Part of my responsibilities was non-profit - Section 501(c)(3) compliance. Lost employment after two years due to federal budget cutbacks. I then decided to go into medical which was my other college major, but I managed stock investments for others as well. I had mentioned this before on this site.
I tested out of high school and went straight to a private college. Then after that, I went to another private college for four years. During college at my young age, I was naive or had a lack of adult experience.
Became wise, during mentioned first employment. I could have written a book on the wrong doings of others. Later, I could had written a second book on games that hospital employees and doctors play.
I find your postings interesting. I liked reading about your experiences. I have been contemplating the two federal government bills. I feel that most of the free money should be given to the disabled and the elderly. Social Security and Medicare need funds.
Sorry for any mistakes - as I can't see what I'm typing. It took me 30 minutes to read your last post.
I cannot engage with you gentlemen on fiscal matters, knowing nothing about such things.
My own experiences relate to life in the jazz world, small business retail, an interest in psychology, occasioned by my own experiences in the field of mental ill-health, and a smattering of philosophy.
- Jun 8, 2018
- 159
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud sound via earbuds from a digital device.
Thanks for the acknowledgement and comment. As I sometimes say indeed "young and dumb" in my 20s and 30s. Don't think I began to even approach being somewhat wise well into my 40s.
As for politicians of all sorts well sometimes this song "God's Away On Business" by musician and actor Tom Waits sums it up see here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM
I always look for the best of two bad options given the binary choice we have in the USA.
It's fascinating to learn that not all of those immigrants in Puritan New England were always reverent towards religion. Below, we have Hugh Tilley/Hyllier of Yarmouth, born before 1613 in England, and three others who were arrested or cited for ridiculing religion. I have early New England Tilley ancestors that arrived on the Mayflower but do not know if Hugh Tilley was related as he came later. Since I have so many hell-raising ancestors that I already know about it would not surprise me if I was related. See the asterisk on the document.
On 1 March 1641/2 "Heugh Tilley" of Yarmouth was one of four men "complained of to be scoffers & jeerers at religion, and making disorders in their town meetings; are to be sent for to answer the next court."
On 1 March 1641/2 "Heugh Tilley" of Yarmouth was one of four men "complained of to be scoffers & jeerers at religion, and making disorders in their town meetings; are to be sent for to answer the next court."
Interesting question.
Perhaps all religious constructs are the stuff of mythology - and human 'Love' is all there is.
Were the Beatles right after all?
So - no Heavenly Father to look after us and no 'big brother' to spy on us, and no day of judgement.
Is the concept of a heavenly afterlife nothing more than comforting wishful thinking?
Are prayers even relevant?
Of course - nobody knows.
People may 'think' they know.
You can probably guess what I think, but what do you think?
(Answers on a postcard.)
Perhaps all religious constructs are the stuff of mythology - and human 'Love' is all there is.
Were the Beatles right after all?
So - no Heavenly Father to look after us and no 'big brother' to spy on us, and no day of judgement.
Is the concept of a heavenly afterlife nothing more than comforting wishful thinking?
Are prayers even relevant?
Of course - nobody knows.
People may 'think' they know.
You can probably guess what I think, but what do you think?
(Answers on a postcard.)
Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!
Similar threads
