SteveToHeal
Member
Thanks for the info. Do you feel that your T has come down since taking part in the trial?
AM-101 TACTT1 Results Released
- Thread starter Hudson
- Start date
Member@benryu: i have a general question and hopefully you or someone else can give me an answer.
It seems that there are many ways to get Tinnitus. Acustic trauma, neck trauma, medications, in my case the ENT tells me that stress may be a reason... because they found nothing else,.
Does all the reasons above lead in the same trouble with excessive glutamate mechanism in the inner ear, so AU00063 helped in any type of chronic T.?
Cheer up!
yeah most T. share the potassium channel issue, only blood circulation related T. and some mechanical T. are the exception.
Feel free to PM if you have more question ! Not to hijack too much this thread
yeah most T. share the potassium channel issue, only blood circulation related T. and some mechanical T. are the exception.
Feel free to PM if you have more question ! Not to hijack too much this thread
@benryu - thanks for your quick answer
@ stevetoheal - sry for hijacking this thread, as a redress i will share my experiences with AM-101 here ;o)
Kind regards
SteveToHeal
Member
No problem mavrik. I don't own the thread. But i also know how irritating it is when other ppl hijack threads with info that belongs in other threads. It can divert original threads completely ... for many pages.... That's why i try not to do it
I think it is a problem with forums in general. However, we have our General Markku searching for hijackers!! So watch out 
yeah most T. share the potassium channel issue, only blood circulation related T. and some mechanical T. are the exception.
Feel free to PM if you have more question ! Not to hijack too much this thread
What is that mechanical T you mention?
He means tinnitus related to the operation of the body.
TMJ is thought to cause tinnitus due to the proximity of auditory nerves to the jaw. Pulsatile tinnitus can be the result of a blood vessel contacting the VIII nerve. Acoustic neuromas can also compress the VIII nerve.
At this point I think it's safe to say my Tinnitus has increased, though I am not *too* worried as this appears to be normal in the immediate aftermath of AM-101 injections. As I posted in another thread, recently I had noticed some new lower tones in my Tinnitus, but since receiving the AM-101 I've noticed some other sensations too. One is like a lower-pitched weak motor sound in my left ear, as well as some accordion-esque tones in my right ear from time to time. Strangely though, there hasn't been much, if any, increase in the volume of my original Tinnitus tones (i.e. the very high-pitched ringing). Who knows what's going on, but I'm optimistic that the AM-101 is doing something due to the activity in my ears.
SteveToHeal
Member
Hi StayPositive. Thanks for the updates. I hope those new tones don't hang around too long and that your T does start coming down as this is the follow up trial and you got the real drug. Congrats on getting through the injections!!!
Yes, but it doesn't mean you can't be helped by new medicines. It's never as simple as, "I have tinnitus because I have TMJ." There's some story there involving nerve irritation and it could very well be that the irritation somehow releases glutamate surges or affects sodium gated potassium channels or..... Just ride it out with the rest of us, my friend.So a TMJ issue (which i might have) is a "mechanical" T? am i right
Okay, at least i have some hope
i still haven't got my jaw (neck as well) and tooth checked.. so i might get some answers there!Ok guys, I have an exclusive information, I am discussing with people working on the AM-101 trial (I won't disclose their names, but if need be I can PM to @Markku to legitimize it).
First information the time frame for the drug efficiency was decreased to 2 months (2,5 max) with the best efficiency in the week after the initial trauma.
Second information, early results are extremly positive, the drug works as expected.
I expect some drama for the people hoping to get in the 12months time-frame, first this is not official, just a discussion so it may change or be moderated, second do not worry about this, the AUT00063 is our solution and the AM-101 proved that the excitotoxicity hypothesis is correct, which is awesome.
First information the time frame for the drug efficiency was decreased to 2 months (2,5 max) with the best efficiency in the week after the initial trauma.
Second information, early results are extremly positive, the drug works as expected.
I expect some drama for the people hoping to get in the 12months time-frame, first this is not official, just a discussion so it may change or be moderated, second do not worry about this, the AUT00063 is our solution and the AM-101 proved that the excitotoxicity hypothesis is correct, which is awesome.
yeah most T. share the potassium channel issue, only blood circulation related T. and some mechanical T. are the exception.
Feel free to PM if you have more question ! Not to hijack too much this thread
Hi benryu! Thanks for providing such great information to this forum!
I just have one question for you, as you seem pretty up to date with the potassium chemistry
As I understand they have now been able to do brain scanning / imaging of the potassium channels, and can actually pinpoint that theres some kind of abnormality going on in those channels compared to people that dont have tinnitus.
What if you had two people, one with tinnitus and one without. If you then replicated the tinnitus sound of this first person and played it through a headset or an earbud into the ear of the other person that originally did not have tinnitus, would it provide the same "abnormality / hyperactivity" in those potassium channels in both individuals?
Hi benryu! Thanks for providing such great information to this forum!
I just have one question for you, as you seem pretty up to date with the potassium chemistry
As I understand they have now been able to do brain scanning / imaging of the potassium channels, and can actually pinpoint that theres some kind of abnormality going on in those channels compared to people that dont have tinnitus.
What if you had two people, one with tinnitus and one without. If you then replicated the tinnitus sound of this first person and played it through a headset or an earbud into the ear of the other person that originally did not have tinnitus, would it provide the same "abnormality / hyperactivity" in those potassium channels in both individuals?
I never though about that actually, it's quite an idea man, I will do some research if from the action potential you can deduce how the signal is interpreted by the brain
Wow actually your idea is mind blowing. (heavy breathing :3 )
If from the bursting activity in principal cells can be corelated by what kind of sound is perceived it could actually be a proof of concept that would revolutionize neuroscience.
I found some people with conceptual ideas:
http://neuronresearch.net/neuron/files/neuralcode.htm
With enough data I could potentially create an algorithm to convert action potential behavior to soundwaves, I am so excited
If anyone finds some data on action potential patterns with high/ low frequency stimulus, I could do a regression and be at least able to reproduce the pitch of sound.
SteveToHeal
Member
Does Markku have a list of names of ppl working on the am101 trial? Sorry - not sure if i understand you right there.
Re the time frames - great for T newbies
Did they say if they had had any +ve results yet for people in the 2 to 12 month window? But good to hear it correlates well with your hypothosis. Roll on AUT00063 and your hypothosis being correct for that too.
I never though about that actually, it's quite an idea man, I will do some research if from the action potential you can deduce how the signal is interpreted by the brain
Wow actually your idea is mind blowing. (heavy breathing :3 )
If from the bursting activity in principal cells can be corelated by what kind of sound is perceived it could actually be a proof of concept that would revolutionize neuroscience.
I found some people with conceptual ideas:
http://neuronresearch.net/neuron/files/neuralcode.htm
With enough data I could potentially create an algorithm to convert action potential behavior to soundwaves, I am so excited
If anyone finds some data on action potential patterns with high/ low frequency stimulus, I could do a regression and be at least able to reproduce the pitch of sound.
Thank you so much for your reply (and your good spirit)!
Im going to check out the link you provided
What bothers me is that I dont have a lot of brain imaging / scanning equipment at home and the depth of knowledge regarding neuroscience (like you seem to have), and theres so many things I would like to dig into regarding tinnitus.
An algorithm for converting action potential (whatever that truly is) to soundwaves should at least in my simple mind be possible. And you are probably the guy that could make it happen
Ill let you know if I stumble upon some data.I just mean I can share with him the mail exchange in case some people doubt of the origin of the information.
SteveToHeal
Member
That is some pretty high level clearance you have there. Way to go Sherlock. Big AM is watching you literally!I just mean I can share with him the mail exchange in case some people doubt of the origin of the information.
Seriously tho, it's top info that is usable. I've followed your explanation of glutamate blocking and death of the hair cell. If what your insider says is true, then it looks like the hair cell is dead/damaged beyond repair, past two months, after a battering of persistent glutamate excitotoxicity.
AM101 introduced within the first 2 months can stop the deterioration past the the point of no return. It blocks the glutamate and the hair cell, still being usable, is able to function normally again. T goes away.
Past that 2 month point, the hair cell is dead and the next phase of Kv Potassium channel malfunction gets set up which becomes persistent T.
I think i'm getting this. Would still be great if you had some uber strong hair cells that could take a glutamate battering past 2 months. But from that data, it is tending towards AM101 being a treatment for acute T :-(
Looks more and more like AM102 is AUT00063 re-wrapped so that Auris have the full T package.
The way I see it the problem is not the death of hair cells, some people experience it and just have hearing loss. The problem is the chain reaction of an excess of glutamate.
There is no idea of "deterioration" in the sense the auditory system is "broken", it was proven that the auditory system is perfectly healthy. The only problem is as you said the derugalation of some specific potassium channel and to some extent glutamate porters (VGLUT).
I don't think that the AM-101 can totally take tinnitus away (in most case), in fact I think it's very good to contain, but not a perfect protection for the glutamate excess. (Just a personal opinion here)
So yeah, sound like the AM102 could be the other side of the package, and that both together with the right timing will bring an end to T.
That being said, the second type (potassium channel modulators), will also do the trick alone but will probably require much more time than for the lucky people who could do a first "cleaning" pass with AM-101.
SteveToHeal
Member
Thanks benryu for putting me on the right track. When I say deteriorated, I mean, say you have a high frequency hearing loss and T, like me. You have deteriorated, damaged or probably dead hair cells in that region of the cochlea, say the 8Khz region.
Quite right you are = that some people have hearing loss and no T. So obviously its not the hair cell causing the glutamate excess.
Sorry if you have already covered this before but then what causes the derugalation of the extent glutamate porters (VGLUT) or the excess glutamate?
Did you get any info from your insider if AM101 takes T away completely in the first week or < 2 months? Or do you think it still needs to be washed with the second type (potassium channel modulators)? Even for T newbies in the first week? So for all cases it will be your 2 for 1 deal.
It is linked to the hair cell, but what I am saying is that sometimes they die in big number and lead to a hearing loss, but not enough glutamate was released to mess up with the potassium channels. (Hearing loss, no t.)
The other way is that they die in smaller number not leading to a significant hearing loss, but releasing enough glutamate to mess up with T. (No hearing loss, T.)
I covered the derugalation in the retigabine thread I think, it was a conversation with cdog, but I did not explained the VGLUT unbalance, it's quite complex and not essencial in the understanding of the big picture. If we do a tinnitus wiki, I 'll detailed it.
No my contact was quite vague, and of course is not going to tell me too much, I could get the information just because we were talking and I asked it in a very subtle manner. If I have the opportunity I'll try to know more.
But yeah it will be most likely a 2 for 1 deal, the first one (Am101) being the "premium" drug with more confort and faster relief early one before the use of a Potassium modulator. The latter alone will still work but will take more time than with the premium track
haha
SteveToHeal
Member
Excellent. oK so understanding the T chain for noise exposure in simple terms is:
[Noise] --> [Gluatamate over release] -> [P channel mess up]
ok, no probs. I'll take a look there.
Best news ever, both on the subtlety of data extraction and the premium track. Roll on AUT63 and pray for +ve results.No my contact was quite vague, and of course is not going to tell me too much, I could get the information just because we were talking and I asked it in a very subtle manner. If I have the opportunity I'll try to know more.
But yeah it will be most likely a 2 for 1 deal, the first one (Am101) being the "premium" drug with more confort and faster relief early one before the use of a Potassium modulator. The latter alone will still work but will take more time than with the premium track
I decided to take part in AM101 trial. The first injections were this week. Both ears. I am in the 3 to 12 month category. They were really sore, especially day 3. Nobody warned me about that, especially when they push the gel (liquid drug or palcebo) in. I screamed. A real wimp! Not looking forward to that again in 3 months. Did anyone doing the trial have really blocked ears after it? It's two days and the left feels blocked still. Like you need to block your nose and blow. But don't want that with having little holes in the eardrums.
I see the doctor next week for a follow up visit so i am hoping all is ok. The phase 1 said that people who had been on it and that it was safe. So I am hoping that it has not affected my hearing. But when i researched it - that was a temporary and not permanenet thing. I had it tested on the 2nd day and it was still the same as the first day. So it has not affected my hearing although it feels like I can not hear. Did anyone else feel like this?
T is still loud and have been putting on the ediary about 7 to 10. I'm hoping it really comes down in time. I thought i needed to let you guys know and give back as this is where i heard about it. I read what benyru said and that it will probably not work :-(
Staying +ve and hoping it will work. I forgot to put ear plugs in this morning in the shower to protect the ears from getting infected. I hope I haven't now created an infection. The whole thing is a bit scary and like attheedgeofscience said it is not for the faint hearted. And I see why people pull out last minute when you see the needle. It was something i did not think would bother me but it was a bit rough.
2 days in and T still hissing like it was if not higher than normal.
I see the doctor next week for a follow up visit so i am hoping all is ok. The phase 1 said that people who had been on it and that it was safe. So I am hoping that it has not affected my hearing. But when i researched it - that was a temporary and not permanenet thing. I had it tested on the 2nd day and it was still the same as the first day. So it has not affected my hearing although it feels like I can not hear. Did anyone else feel like this?
T is still loud and have been putting on the ediary about 7 to 10. I'm hoping it really comes down in time. I thought i needed to let you guys know and give back as this is where i heard about it. I read what benyru said and that it will probably not work :-(
Staying +ve and hoping it will work. I forgot to put ear plugs in this morning in the shower to protect the ears from getting infected. I hope I haven't now created an infection. The whole thing is a bit scary and like attheedgeofscience said it is not for the faint hearted. And I see why people pull out last minute when you see the needle. It was something i did not think would bother me but it was a bit rough.
2 days in and T still hissing like it was if not higher than normal.
Thanks so much for all the 'Intel' Detective BenyruIt is linked to the hair cell, but what I am saying is that sometimes they die in big number and lead to a hearing loss, but not enough glutamate was released to mess up with the potassium channels. (Hearing loss, no t.)
The other way is that they die in smaller number not leading to a significant hearing loss, but releasing enough glutamate to mess up with T. (No hearing loss, T.)
I covered the derugalation in the retigabine thread I think, it was a conversation with cdog, but I did not explained the VGLUT unbalance, it's quite complex and not essencial in the understanding of the big picture. If we do a tinnitus wiki, I 'll detailed it.
No my contact was quite vague, and of course is not going to tell me too much, I could get the information just because we were talking and I asked it in a very subtle manner. If I have the opportunity I'll try to know more.
But yeah it will be most likely a 2 for 1 deal, the first one (Am101) being the "premium" drug with more confort and faster relief early one before the use of a Potassium modulator. The latter alone will still work but will take more time than with the premium track
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Hi Benryu,
Thanks for all your research and information here. This is awesome.
I am still pessimistic. Why should exactly at this time where we live, be something found mankind is suffering with since the beginning? I do not put too much hope into it, although like everyone here, I wish our dreams come true and we hear silence again.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks for all your research and information here. This is awesome.
I am still pessimistic. Why should exactly at this time where we live, be something found mankind is suffering with since the beginning? I do not put too much hope into it, although like everyone here, I wish our dreams come true and we hear silence again.
Keep up the good work.
I just heard the follow up where you get the real drug is 18 injections (9 each ear) !!! 3 rounds of 6 spaced over 3 months. IS that what other people on the follow up have been offered. I'm going to have a pin cushion for an eardrum. Not to mention the pain factor.
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