Any Supplement or Medicine That Can Reduce Tinnitus Caused by a "Glutamate Storm"?

[Poyraz]

I have very basic couple of questions to make it clear for the sufferers like my who have no clue about scientific term.

1-Is there any scientific studies on the cure or treatment to reverse the damage from glutamate storm?

2-Does it mean stem cell therapy will work on ototoxic induced T?(ototxicity froms benzos, SSRIs not antibiotics)

3-Is ototoxic induced T the worst case and there is no hope for us?

4-Are we f*cked up?

@Cityjohn I know you are very busy at the moment but I believe these are easy ones for you to relpy.

Thank you

 

[Cityjohn]

I have very basic couple of questions to make it clear for the sufferers like my who have no clue about scientific term.

1-Is there any scientific studies on the cure or treatment to reverse the damage from glutamate storm?

2-Does it mean stem cell therapy will work on ototoxic induced T?(ototxicity froms benzos, SSRIs not antibiotics)

3-Is ototoxic induced T the worst case and there is no hope for us?

4-Are we f*cked up?

@Cityjohn I know you are very busy at the moment but I believe these are easy ones for you to relpy.

Thank you

Oh sh... I didn't see this message, sorry for the late reply.

1; Gene therapy, Light therapy, Stem cell therapy. I'm pretty sure more drugs do more harm than good.
2; Stem cell therapy works on pretty much everything.
3; I don't think so, all tinnitus is equally bad and equally hard to treat. Glutamate toxicity deep in the brain is harder to reach with a treatment but that's only a small hurdle to overcome.
4; Only slightly, but I'm not worried, a cure for tinnitus is around the corner.

@Beste , maybe interesting for you too.

 

[Beste]

Oh sh... I didn't see this message, sorry for the late reply.

1; Gene therapy, Light therapy, Stem cell therapy. I'm pretty sure more drugs do more harm than good.
2; Stem cell therapy works on pretty much everything.
3; I don't think so, all tinnitus is equally bad and equally hard to treat. Glutamate toxicity deep in the brain is harder to reach with a treatment but that's only a small hurdle to overcome.
4; Only slightly, but I'm not worried, a cure for tinnitus is around the corner.

@Beste , maybe interesting for you too.

Yep. Amazing Qs and Answers. Especially for the days like these which I'm starting to hear my tinnitus even when I'm outside.

 

[Hopeful1]

2; Stem cell therapy works on pretty much everything.

I am not sure as hair cells are different to any other cells in that they not regenerated/repaired. Check out the below video.

 

[Alue]

When the synapses in the cochlea or anywhere in between the cochlea and other filtering centers go nuts, the signal will no longer be interpreted as internal noise because a sufficient number of synapses are giving the same signal at the same time. This is why we get a relatively high volume of tinnitus suddenly as opposed to gradually increasing.
The mechanism here is not as sophisticated as it may seem, it emerges naturally from the way the circuit is hooked up. The reason I know this is because as an amateur astronomer and neurology hobbyist I had simulated the optical nerves and calculated the thresholds because we wanted to learn about our limits with the naked eye.

According to that presentation the CNS filters signals by proportion, meaning that when 5% of the signal is a high pitched noise you're fine. Until you lose 90% (arbitrary) of the other synapses, in which case 50% of what is left is creating a noise that your CNS no longer interprets as noise to be filtered.

I'm not sure where to post this question, but something has been on my mind about tinnitus theory. It seems to me that there is more at play than just too many synapses firing making the signal too high to be filtered out by the CNS. Many people have hearing loss and no tinnitus, especially in the very high frequency range, it would seem to me part of the problem is caused by a dysfunction in the signal processing portion of the brain. A signal processing error could explain why many people experience hyperacusis and all sorts of other strange symptoms once tinnitus hits them.

Maybe it's different for each individual, some with tonal tinnitus and no hyperacusis etc. it simply is as you said, the signal has become to large to be filtered out by the CNS, but for others that have not only tinnitus, but hyperacusis, reactive tinnitus, fleeting tinnitus etc. the mechanism used to suppress these signals has stopped functioning properly. Even if you were to restore hearing, and that's a big if, would that necessarily fix the problem?
Another thing that bothers me about that is, if it is a CNS filtering problem, isn't that the same process you are hoping will kick in to allow you to habituate to the sound?

Forgive my lack of terminology, I wish I knew more about neurology.

 

[GregCA]

Maybe it's different for each individual, some with tonal tinnitus and no hyperacusis etc. it simply is as you said, the signal has become to large to be filtered out by the CNS, but for others that have not only tinnitus, but hyperacusis, reactive tinnitus, fleeting tinnitus etc. the mechanism used to suppress these signals has stopped functioning properly. Even if you were to restore hearing, and that's a big if, would that necessarily fix the problem?

There is one theory indeed that states every T is somehow rooted to a hearing issue (T being just a symptom). The way it was explained to me is that when you lose hearing, the brain tries to increase the "gain" on the parts of the hearing that it doesn't hear well anymore, and somehow it creates these phantom sounds.
So the theory is that if you restore the hearing, then the brain gets legit signals again and should bring the gain back down, reducing the T (potentially to nothing).

 

[Cityjohn]

Sorry I'm so concise, exams..

Even if you were to restore hearing, and that's a big if, would that necessarily fix the problem?

Good question, I'd like to know too, but I don't believe it does. The experiences of TTalks members confirm that their hearing has improved, but not their tinnitus, even when treated by Dr. Wilden.

Another thing that bothers me about that is, if it is a CNS filtering problem, isn't that the same process you are hoping will kick in to allow you to habituate to the sound?

That's a different system. If the filtration kicks in you would no longer hear it. Habituation is more of a attitude thing :/

There's nothing to forgive, that was very well put.

So the theory is that if you restore the hearing, then the brain gets legit signals again and should bring the gain back down, reducing the T (potentially to nothing).

Yep, that's pretty much how it works. Unless my experiments fail, in which case it's not Keep you guys updated in a few weeks.

 

[Alue]

Sorry I'm so concise, exams..

No problem.

That's a different system. If the filtration kicks in you would no longer hear it. Habituation is more of a attitude thing :/

From talking to other people on TT, and elsewhere, it seems there are different types of habituation, some where people do not perceive the sound at all until it is mentioned, in that case I would expect some CNS activity is involved. That is why some people say the volume goes way down 6 months to a year later. There are others who hear it all the time, and the volume never changes, but they just don't react to it negatively like they used to.

There is one theory indeed that states every T is somehow rooted to a hearing issue (T being just a symptom). The way it was explained to me is that when you lose hearing, the brain tries to increase the "gain" on the parts of the hearing that it doesn't hear well anymore, and somehow it creates these phantom sounds.
So the theory is that if you restore the hearing, then the brain gets legit signals again and should bring the gain back down, reducing the T (potentially to nothing).

I'm familiar with that theory. And there is evidence for that. I also agree that every T is most likely related to some hearing loss even if it's hidden. They aren't mutually exclusive. But I think there are multiple factors at play than just blaming the hearing loss for the T. I believe hearing loss triggers a cascade of events.
I think it is an inappropriate brain reaction to (often sudden) hearing loss that triggers this cascade of neurological changes that creates this hyperactivity. But why then is this hyperactivity so permanent? It's obvious why the damage to the cochlea becomes permanent. This is where a more thorough understanding of neurology would be handy, I wish more neurologists took interest in tinnitus and not just ENT's.

My point is this, hearing loss is probably evident in just about every case of tinnitus, but it's only one piece of the puzzle.

 

[Path Maker]

@Alue Good questions, good thinking. I think like this all the time too, but without sufficient scientific background to do more than muse, intuit, and wrack my brain. I also think that neuroscientists are the ones who I'd hope would take more interest. It's such a compelling challenge, with such a benefit to so many ...

 

[JasonP]

I have very basic couple of questions to make it clear for the sufferers like my who have no clue about scientific term.

1-Is there any scientific studies on the cure or treatment to reverse the damage from glutamate storm?

2-Does it mean stem cell therapy will work on ototoxic induced T?(ototxicity froms benzos, SSRIs not antibiotics)

3-Is ototoxic induced T the worst case and there is no hope for us?

4-Are we f*cked up?

@Cityjohn I know you are very busy at the moment but I believe these are easy ones for you to relpy.

Thank you

There might be some hope at least to reduce the T. Let's suppose there was a glutamate storm and the glutamate transporters were damaged which "normally serve to remove glutamate from the synaptic cleft and extrasynaptic sites via reuptake" (wikipedia). So if the glutamate transporters are damaged there could be glutamate activating neurons and nothing to "reuptake" it. I am no scientist so I don't know if that is legit or just my ignorant view on things but I wonder if someone was to take a drug that would enhance the glutamate transporters if it would help. Interestingly I found a drug I would really like to try but don't know if I could get it prescribed called Riluzole. It may help, it may not, or may make things worse so I would encourage everyone who would want to try it to look up the drug for yourself and talk with a neurologist or whatever they are called who knows what they are talking about. (Maybe I should too)

No problem.



From talking to other people on TT, and elsewhere, it seems there are different types of habituation, some where people do not perceive the sound at all until it is mentioned, in that case I would expect some CNS activity is involved. That is why some people say the volume goes way down 6 months to a year later. There are others who hear it all the time, and the volume never changes, but they just don't react to it negatively like they used to.



I'm familiar with that theory. And there is evidence for that. I also agree that every T is most likely related to some hearing loss even if it's hidden. They aren't mutually exclusive. But I think there are multiple factors at play than just blaming the hearing loss for the T. I believe hearing loss triggers a cascade of events.
I think it is an inappropriate brain reaction to (often sudden) hearing loss that triggers this cascade of neurological changes that creates this hyperactivity. But why then is this hyperactivity so permanent? It's obvious why the damage to the cochlea becomes permanent. This is where a more thorough understanding of neurology would be handy, I wish more neurologists took interest in tinnitus and not just ENT's.

My point is this, hearing loss is probably evident in just about every case of tinnitus, but it's only one piece of the puzzle.

Oh sh... I didn't see this message, sorry for the late reply.

1; Gene therapy, Light therapy, Stem cell therapy. I'm pretty sure more drugs do more harm than good.
2; Stem cell therapy works on pretty much everything.
3; I don't think so, all tinnitus is equally bad and equally hard to treat. Glutamate toxicity deep in the brain is harder to reach with a treatment but that's only a small hurdle to overcome.
4; Only slightly, but I'm not worried, a cure for tinnitus is around the corner.

@Beste , maybe interesting for you too.

I found the following article:

http://newswire.rockefeller.edu/201...-genetic-changes-thought-to-spur-the-disease/

This is a quote ""In aging and Alzheimer's, the chemical signal glutamate can accumulate between neurons, damaging the circuitry," Pereira says. "When we treated rats with riluzole, we saw a suite of changes. Perhaps most significantly, expression of molecules responsible for clearing excess glutamate returned to more youthful levels."

What do you guys think? I need second opinions.

 

[Cal18]

@Cityjohn Wondering your take on this. I have withdrawal/ototoxic extreme T and H. The ENT told me a I had slight mid level hearing loss. I thought the hearing loss in this case was usually high level. I'm starting to think that the hearing loss is coincidental and not related to my T/H. What's your go on that? Trying to determine if I have hair damage or tinnitus or not.

 

[Cityjohn]

@Cityjohn Wondering your take on this. I have withdrawal/ototoxic extreme T and H. The ENT told me a I had slight mid level hearing loss. I thought the hearing loss in this case was usually high level. I'm starting to think that the hearing loss is coincidental and not related to my T/H. What's your go on that? Trying to determine if I have hair damage or tinnitus or not.

I doubt very much the hearing loss is coincedental. If you have T & H it means your auditory system was recently damaged, it stands to reason you also have hearing damage from the same cause. Especially if the hearing damage location is the same wavelength, or close, as your T or H.

 

[Cal18]

Thanks, I'm not sure if my hearing loss is at the same level as my T. How would one determine that? The H is weird because it comes and goes.