Benzos and Tinnitus: Help or Hindrance?

[fatz1126]

Lisa,
Please don't feel bad about asking the questions at all. And forgive me please if I don't get back sometimes.
I'm away from the computer sometimes for weeks. Here goes:
...First, let me jump forward to the end of my story and what I wholeheartedly believe will be the end of yours as well.......And that is 100% recovery....Not 70% or 90%, 100%. And once you've recovered from these issues you feel better than you ever did.
...I'm telling you this because I believe that you knowing where you are going with all of this is going to make the whole challenge along the way much easier......Now, to you question:
...I was only on Lorazapam a brief time, but being as i was already in my late 50's at the time I had a very swift onset of the negative effects......It was quite frankly horrible. And it was the withdrawal from lorazapam which effectively "trained my focus on tinnitus". Lorazapam or more accurately, stopping usage of it was the very culprit itself, for me. I do not recall the dosage.........These things I know:
1. I'm VERY glad that i decided to get off of it.....I would never have gotten better had I not. It was not the solution, it was the problem.
2. I went cold turkey and that made it much worse for me.....Your approach of a slow taper is much wiser. So go slow, take your time. Be patient.
3. It gets worse before it gets better, prepare yourself for a long haul.
4. But, you will eventually start to "slowwwwwwly heal" Painstakingly so. But in the end you will heal to 100%.
Your old normal before all of this began will be you future as well.
5. I didn't excercise nearly enough.....But I do think that is an excellent route to go. I would have recovered faster had I done that......I have to stress this. Do the things you've enjoyed in the past, even if you aren't enjoying them now.....Keep your feet moving and stay full engaged in life......Do normal things. Do not hunker down. Get out and do things....
6. And i cannot stress this enough. My tinnitus was never the problem. My problem was my reaction to the tinnitus......If you asked my how my tinnitus was 5 years ago, i would have said
A. Loud. and
B. It bothers me 100% of the time.
...If you were to ask me now
A. Loud. as loud as ever. And
B. It bothers me "never"
...And that's where i believe you are going.....I would not worry at all about the volume level of the tinnitus. I was told that the more persistent tinnitus is easier to habituate than the interemittent and I believe from my personal experience this is true....
7. When you are hearing your tinnitus and it is loud just tell yourself that that is good because everytime you hear it and respond to it you are one response closer to a weaker response, followed by another weaker response still.
8. My opinion. You do not need to rid yourself of tinnitus to be whole. You just need to bide your time as your response weakens over time. And it absolute will.........I tell you two things with that i believe with all of my heart to be true.
1. This will take longer and be harder than you care to envision....(Both aspects of it. Getting off of Lorazapam an habituating Tinnitus) (I know because I've been there on both)
2. And you here's the good news..........You will be 100%............Even the painful memories will dissapear over time........
So Hang in there.....
God Bless,
R. David.

This is inspiring R. David. I got teary -eyed reading this.

 

[R. David]

This is inspiring R. David. I got teary -eyed reading this.

Thank you so much for the kind words. I truly appreciate it.
R. David

 

[Lisa88]

Thank you so much for the kind words. I truly appreciate it.
R. David

@R. David Sorry, going through a hard time with this slow liquid taper off of lorazepam. You answered all my questions so beautifully, thank you. And you have given me hope as I continue this taper that t may fade again. I did just want to ask you though - were you on lorazepam for weeks or months? Can you remember? I have been on it for 5 months now. Thanks R. David.

 

[Zimichael]

I'm a 'peripheral' on this thread and just popped in to see it as am tapering off Clonazepam right now as part of my preparation for Retigabine 'trial' (aka "guinea pig"). Sure looks like I have a long haul to get the Benzo out of my system!

Anyway, a couple of things that some of you may find of use (and apologies if already covered but did not see on this thread).

1. This chart of all the Benzos and their time/temporal aspects is 'useful' - and humbling! Like how come docs just hand this stuff out without saying anything about how long they last in the system and how hard to get off!?
http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

2. For the Benryu followers and nueron-ologically inclined, I found this a helpful video of the GABA/Benzo action and what happens on the synaptic level. Mainly the first section is relevant, but also note that Glutamate and K+ comes in at the end (and one of the potential side effects of Retigabine = muscle relaxant = that "urinary retention"?!)

I was about to post this on the Retigabine thread (as had some GABA discussion) but figured it may be useful here too.

Best, Zimichael

 

[Lisa88]

Thanks, @Zimichael
I am also following the thread with Benryu's informative comments.
What dosage are you on? And how long have you been on it for?
Clonazepam is one of the better ones to withdraw from as it has a longer half life.
I am doing the 100ml liquid taper off lorazepam, 5 percent each week. 4 more months taper to go. Have only been on lorazepam for 5 months at .5mg daily, but it is enough to weaken natural gaba.
Trying to cut out nearly all sodium and sugar to help keep the glutamate down during this weaker gaba stage.
Please let us know how you get on with the withdrawal. Make it slow.
Yes, I am considering the potassium opener drugs too. From what @benryu has mentioned, seems that it would have a more positive and longer lasting effect than the terrible benzos.

 

[Lisa88]

Also, just wanted to add - the same doctor who gave me t (through local anesthetic), also prescribed me long term benzos.
If he had explained to me then that these benzos could make t worse in the long term through tolerance, withdrawal, and overall decreasing your own gaba, I would have just gone on them for the 2-4 weeks. I am only finding out the awful truth about benzos months later.
Cannot believe how much I am paying for this negligence.

 

[undecided]

@Lisa88 don't mean to be rude and this is going to be slightly offtopic but...
if a doctor gave you ototoxic meds, why on earth did you trust him to keep treating you?
Then he went on prescribing benzos, you took them for months. As far as I know, the instructions inside the box of every single benzo clearly state that long term use (3-4 weeks) leads to tolerance and dependence issues.

There is a lot that can be said about these drugs, doctors do indeed tend to over-prescribe them.
However, they cannot be held solely responsible for any subsequent use and abuse of these medications.

 

[Lisa88]

I was advised to continue with it to treat t. As many patients in the US are.
At the time, it helped me sleep and halved the sounds.
When a doctor advises you to keep going, and you are in distress, well ...trust him, right?
Guess you're right, will not be making that same mistake again.

 

[Lisa88]

I think the problem is that we don't recognize how they can effect our t long term. Nothing in the directions about benzos treating t can make t worse.

 

[st0rch]

I feel Xanax brought me to the point that I no longer have a desire to live, this is before my tinnitus started (unrelated to the drug). The anxiety I suffer daily after taking this drug is unbearable, I literally drive to work hoping someone will hit me and end the pain I'm in. I'm only 23, but I feel like between Tinnitus and worse, the anxiety, that there really is no hope or point anymore.

I do realize it does not have this effect on everybody, maybe I was a special case, either way I just wish I could go back. Life is no longer enjoyable.

 

[Lisa88]

I feel Xanax brought me to the point that I no longer have a desire to live, this is before my tinnitus started (unrelated to the drug). The anxiety I suffer daily after taking this drug is unbearable, I literally drive to work hoping someone will hit me and end the pain I'm in. I'm only 23, but I feel like between Tinnitus and worse, the anxiety, that there really is no hope or point anymore.

I do realize it does not have this effect on everybody, maybe I was a special case, either way I just wish I could go back. Life is no longer enjoyable.

So sorry to hear that. Can you find a doctor/therapist who will help you taper off the med? Or maybe add an anti depressant? Some people do slow liquid tapers to come off the drug, and some cross over to valium as in the Ashton Manual. Therapy/CBT may also help you.
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

 

[undecided]

I was advised to continue with it to treat t. As many patients in the US are.
At the time, it helped me sleep and halved the sounds.
When a doctor advises you to keep going, and you are in distress, well ...trust him, right?
Guess you're right, will not be making that same mistake again.

I'm just saying that it is wise to exercise caution with any drug that any doctor is willing to prescribe (sometimes just to get rid of you, get paid and move on to the next poor soul sitting in the waiting room).
Most doctors are quite useless and will prescribe a benzo just because they can't be bothered to hear what you are telling them or dig deeper for answers.
The first ENT I went to prescribed me 2x30 packs of Stilnox because I couldn't sleep.
Seriously, what a prick. I bet he might have given me some Veronal had I asked for it.

 

[Lisa88]

It seems that the dots have not been connected yet that benzos to treat t can actually cause worse t in the long term. If doctors who know more than neurobiology have not connected the dots, then new t patients in distress - well it took months of research to get it. Doctors in the US hand out benzos on repeat prescription for t like candy.
Having said all that, some stay on benzos long term without somehow reaching tolerance, and t levels remain calm, but these from what I understand tend to be the minority.
Definitely some studies should be done regarding this connection between benzos and so called long term "treatment" of t. @undecided

 

[Zimichael]

Thanks, @Zimichael
I am also following the thread with Benryu's informative comments.
What dosage are you on? And how long have you been on it for?
Clonazepam is one of the better ones to withdraw from as it has a longer half life.
I am doing the 100ml liquid taper off lorazepam, 5 percent each week. 4 more months taper to go. Have only been on lorazepam for 5 months at .5mg daily, but it is enough to weaken natural gaba.
Trying to cut out nearly all sodium and sugar to help keep the glutamate down during this weaker gaba stage.
Please let us know how you get on with the withdrawal. Make it slow.
Yes, I am considering the potassium opener drugs too. From what @benryu has mentioned, seems that it would have a more positive and longer lasting effect than the terrible benzos.

@Lisa88 ...hey sorry for the tardy response here but as you may have seen if on the Retigabine thread, I have been kinda busy.

Regarding Clonazepam dosage... I have been on 1/2 of a 2 mg tablet, so dose was = 1 mg, with occasional jumps up to 2 mg for a night or two. Has been the case for at least the past 12 months nonstop. This is one of the longest periods I have ever used the stuff as was dealing with a lot of things apart from T and H (divorce for one) and did not want the hassles of dropping it in such multi-fracas flux field.

Prior "drops/quitting" had been more than interesting! A few years back = two bloody weeks without any real sleep...really. I counted about maybe 4-6 hours of "naps worth" in that time. I couldn't believe it but I sort of got used to being awake after around 7 days in. Man was it boring living with myself for that long nonstop. Finally I gave up and re-started and "Gonk", slept for like 12 hours...Sleep can be kind of addictive.

Right now I am going down slow and currently at about 0.75 mg per night...I'm not super fussy about if it's 0.8 mg or 0.7 mg, etc. as it does not seem to make much difference being "exact". It is however, starting to mess with my sleep, even though it hardly does anything for my 'regular' sleep (thus what I termed 'ineffective"). I am waking up about 6 to 10 times a night and no doubt getting poorer quality sleep, but just will have to put up with it. I intend to get to 1/4 tablet = 0.5 mg then maybe hold for a bit there before taking the next step down...especially as I am now (c/o my research that I wrote up) less concerned than I was about mixing a Benzo with Retigabine.
So far the "White Sweat" horse has not come galloping into the picture and the anxiety demons it carries are thankfully pillaging elsewhere...but not sure how long I will remain "unnoticed". [Mmmmm... I don't see a 'finger's crossed' or 'touch wood' icon!]

Lastly, I have to say I agree with you about docs and why we stick with them or do what they say, etc., etc. even if they prescribe things like Benzos to us with total aplomb and semi irrelevance.
When I was so darn sick I could not deal with my deck I did not have the energy to question such things. However, after seeing about 25 docs over a few years, I stuck with my current doc because he is by far the best of the bunch - yeah even though he is the one that also prescribed the ototoxic cocktail that fried my T to 'stage 3' and gave me H for the first time!
I understood why that happened. Docs are just human. He was doing his best. He feels terrible about it. I'm still with him as we have been through a lot together and no way any new doc could come close to that "institutional memory" of me.

Take care... Zimichael

 

[Lisa88]

Thanks, @Zimichael
From that, I guess the taper is not making your t go up.
Lucky you!
Thanks for all the posts too on the R thread
Lisa

 

[Zimichael]

Thanks, @Zimichael
From that, I guess the taper is not making your t go up.
Lucky you!
Thanks for all the posts too on the R thread
Lisa

Lisa...No, so far the T is nearly the same though a bit louder perhaps. However, that could also be the fatigue setting in from lack of sleep c/o dropping the dose on the Clonazepam.....Like now = midnight and nowhere near sleepy, but sure am getting tired. Go to bed, toss and turn for an hour or two, get bored, get up, do some minor paperwork, go back to bed, toss and turn, get up check on Telis, go back to bed.....Rinse-wash-and repeat.

Sigh! I could be up a lot in the next month or more, though maybe the Potiga will make me sleepy! (Yeah ordering it tomorrow).

Take care... Zimichael

 

[Lisa88]

@Zimichael
If you have answered this somewhere, please forgive the questions.
But how long have you been on the benzo, and at what dosage?
And how fast are you tapering?
I was on .5mg Lorazepam for 4 months. Tapering at 5% per week via liquid taper (dissolved in water).
At just 25% cut, and my sounds are going through the roof, and waking me out of my sleep.
I find it weird that the taper takes longer than the time I have been on the benzo. All in all, it is just lengthening the time I am on the benzo. So frustrating. Can't talk to any doctors about it either.
Thanks, Z!

 

[Grace]

I take klonopin .5 twice a week.. How is this going to make my T worse? If anything it helps my anxiety big time and less worrying...

 

[Lisa88]

@Grace
I am sure you are safe with that dosage and just twice per week, or when needed. I am trying to get to the "as needed" point.
Looks like we started t around the same time.
I am at 10 months now. Last 4 months or so have been taking .5mg daily.
This has made my natural GABA dependent on the drug. And tolerance set in. I am weaning off very slowly.
Those who started t around the same time, but did not take daily benzos, all have seen a substantial fade in their t, even those on as needed benzos. I am sure you will be fine.
Doctors have told me of this natural fade in the first year with eighty percent of sudden onset cases.
But because my brain cells have been so dependent on the drug, I think I have blown my chances of that happening.
This is all stated above. Along with the very important point that doctors in the US who hand out benzos like candy for t, need to be aware of the long term ramifications.
p.s. part of the withdrawal symptoms from benzos is, you guessed it, t.

 

[Grace]

Ohhh okay.. Yeah i mean i had minor T to begin with when i got it but it deff faded more/kinda almost gone for the most part but idk if im
Wrong but i was always told as long as you withdraw safely then T should not get worse... I was on klonopin daily for 2 years so those gaba things id think would be set in my brain.. Now down to 2 a week but its still in my system and sometimes i take 3 aweek.. When i first came down with T i was just poppin them to feel better and it helped. Wasnt so much my T it was
My anxiety of having something that could get worse. I dont worry bout it tho i just think that it could take time for T to fade.. And yours can too. It just sounds like a lot of hear say, and anythings possible and everyones different. I did an asshole thing of withdrawin from klonopin cold turkey before T and suprisingly had not one withdraw symptom cause my lexapro was helpin my anxiety.

 

[Lisa88]

Thanks, @Grace.
I needed to hear that

 

[Zimichael]

@Zimichael
If you have answered this somewhere, please forgive the questions.
But how long have you been on the benzo, and at what dosage?
And how fast are you tapering?
I was on .5mg Lorazepam for 4 months. Tapering at 5% per week via liquid taper (dissolved in water).
At just 25% cut, and my sounds are going through the roof, and waking me out of my sleep.
I find it weird that the taper takes longer than the time I have been on the benzo. All in all, it is just lengthening the time I am on the benzo. So frustrating. Can't talk to any doctors about it either.
Thanks, Z!

@Lisa88 ...read three posts up from your above post to answer your question. Z.

 

[Lisa88]

Thanks @Zimichael
Losing brain cells with this crazy benzo business Sorry.

 

[David J]

O.K....I read this entire thread and so I should be very aware of the relationship of Benzos and "T". However, I am confused.....Is there evidence that Benzos cause "T" or just make it worse? And/or is it just when withdrawing from Benzos? I am sorry for being so dense.............
I have ben taking 0.5 Xanax at bedtime for more years than I can remember. Once/day.
My "T" started several years ago, but many, many years after I started using Xanax. So I don't think (hadn't thought) that the benzos caused it, but what do I know? I am just trying to determine what the relationship is. I think I have habituated to some extent, but far from completely. The high pitched "eeeeeeeeeeee" still bothers me sometimes.
I will appreciate any insight anyone can provide.
THANKS!
David

 

[Lisa88]

@David J
That is good that the low dose Xanax is helping you. You are one of the lucky ones who have not reached tolerance.
Benzos are indeed on the ototoxic list, but I think really very little is still known about it. There are no formal studies out there re Benzos and T, or long term Benzos to treat t.
Obviously your t was not caused by the Xanax, just because of the mere timing.
But there is lots of evidence that through tolerance or withdrawal from benzos, people have in fact developed t.
My position is that as I am going through the withdrawal process, that benzos in fact masked the problem and did not treat the problem.
Those who had similar timing of sudden onset t without subsequent use of meds, have seen a natural perceived fade of their t in the first year.
The worry in my case, not yours, is that I did not give my natural gaba time to fight t before the year mark of t being coded in the brain (which also has not been proven). Doctors however do set this year time limit. Reasons are still unknown why.
So summary - you are fine. Please don't worry. The other side of the coin is that when the benzos work, it helps us sleep and calms anxiety re t.

 

[Lisa88]

Also, just wanted to mention, as I live in both the US and the UK, I have noticed that in the US, doctors prescribe long term benzos like candy to those with t. But in the UK, initiating a benzo prescription for longer than 4 weeks is so frowned upon that it is almost to the point of illegal.
I would like to see a formal study where long term benzos (i.e. more than 4 week) may effect t, especially within the first year or so re t coding in the brain etc.

 

[David J]

Thanks so much for the explanation. I knew nothing about the ototoxic list, but I do now. I vaguely remember some warnings years ago that aspirin can make your ears ring. I see that it is on the list.
So even though my Xanax dose is really low, I suppose that it could be the cause. I have been thinking lately that I really need to stop taking it anyway. I am no longer O.K. with my dependence. If I stop, I fear that even at a single dose of .5 mg I will suffer withdrawal symptoms. I'll certainly taper slowly over a long time to minimize those effects.

Yeah, in the U.S. some doc.'s do give them out like candy. However, only "some" doc.'s, not all. Same with pain med's, but the trend in the last couple of years has been to move away from pain med's. Seems like it runs in cycles and from one extreme to the other. The theory now is that narcotic pain meds lead to heroin addiction (A serious problem in the U.S.). While that may be true in some people, it isn't always the case. However, because of it conventional wisdom now seems to be that you'd be better to suffer than take the chance of being addicted to heroin.
Again............Thanks!

 

[Lisa88]

@David J
As I understand it, most all drugs have the potential to cause t in those who are vulnerable to it.
Ototoxic means damage in some way to hearing, which most likely refers to inducing hearing loss. This is a smaller list.
But again, we definitely need to see studies done on Benzos and t. Much needed.

 

[Sen]

Without benzos I experience crushing headaches and horrible vertigo/dizziness. Without benzos my tinnitus and hyperacusis symptoms are much worse, as well as my ear pain and fullness.

My life is crappy enough even with benzos. Without them, my life is pure torture.

 

[UserID]

I have T, along witth other health conditions that are pain related, so I take the meds needed to keep my life as close to normal as possible, which includes hydrocodone, one of those ototoxic meds in the list, and xanax, as well as a couple other meds. Fibromyalgia with peripheral neuropathy, a tear in my hip that cannot be repaired, spinal stenosis and other spine issues are a real challenge. And yet, I hold down a fulltime job that is very demanding, perform as a weekend bassist/vocalist, do projects around the house, and take walks with my cat (yea, cat).