Can Ketamine Infusion for Depression Worsen Tinnitus?

[Grand05]

I have severe depression from having visual snow and tinnitus, and I'm considering either suicide or Ketamine infusions for depression. From what I've read, Ketamine acts on NMDA receptors, thus raising Glutamate in the brain. Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter and possibly (?) can lead to worsening of tinnitus.

Any thoughts on this, guys? If there are any evidence it can worsen tinnitus, I'm not going to do it, but I want to be sure.

 

[ajc]

I have severe depression from having visual snow and tinnitus, and I'm considering either suicide or Ketamine infusions for depression. From what I've read, Ketamine acts on NMDA receptors, thus raising Glutamate in the brain. Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter and possibly (?) can lead to worsening of tinnitus.

Any thoughts on this, guys? If there are any evidence it can worsen tinnitus, I'm not going to do it, but I want to be sure.

Why are you worried about it?

If suicide is your alternative option, why not give Ketamine a try no matter how risky it is?

 

[Grand05]

Why are you worried about it?

If suicide is your alternative option, why not give Ketamine a try no matter how risky it is?

Easier said than done, my friend. I am considering suicide, but what if Ketamine will make me unable to do even that?

 

[Grand05]

Anyone has any insight into this type of treatment?

 

[Michael B]

It's a drug that's gotten a bad rap of late due to its illegal use. It's been around since the '60s but only more recently been considered for major depression when other medications fail to help. The FDA has yet approved it for depression but some psychiatrists are trying it experimentally with their patients. You may want to consult your physician.

 

[TealD]

I also would like to know if Ketamine makes tinnitus worse. I tried TMS therapy to treat depression and about two weeks in my tinnitus has gotten louder. This was after months of barely even hearing the tinnitus and forgetting I had it for the most part. I am pretty sure it's not from anxiety either. I may start Ketamine to treat depression but I have to know if it can cause a permanent tinnitus spike.

 

[GBB]

There was someone on reddit who claimed he got rid of his tinnitus via ketamine and pramipexole - he said he was a biology student/researcher. I tried to get more information from him but never heard back, unfortunately.

Either way I would say it could have a significant effect as it clearly seems to touch on those receptors.

 

[Matthew Dean]

Ketamine should help improve tinnitus because it's an NMDA antagonist.

 

[GBB]

I have severe depression from having visual snow and tinnitus, and I'm considering either suicide or Ketamine infusions for depression. From what I've read, Ketamine acts on NMDA receptors, thus raising Glutamate in the brain. Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter and possibly (?) can lead to worsening of tinnitus.

Any thoughts on this, guys? If there are any evidence it can worsen tinnitus, I'm not going to do it, but I want to be sure.

Where have you read that it raises glutamate? I've seen that it competes with glutamate, thereby blocking it from binding to NMDA receptors.

 

[GBB]

I have severe depression from having visual snow and tinnitus, and I'm considering either suicide or Ketamine infusions for depression. From what I've read, Ketamine acts on NMDA receptors, thus raising Glutamate in the brain. Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter and possibly (?) can lead to worsening of tinnitus.

Any thoughts on this, guys? If there are any evidence it can worsen tinnitus, I'm not going to do it, but I want to be sure.

Did you ever try it?

 

[Paul Walter]

Yes, Ketamine does make tinnitus much louder. I had it and wish I never had. The same goes for all antidepressants. I can't take any of them. They just blow my tinnitus through the roof.

 

[Chris Goodman]

Yes, Ketamine does make tinnitus much louder. I had it and wish I never had. The same goes for all antidepressants. I can't take any of them. They just blow my tinnitus through the roof.

Would you mind elaborating on the type of tinnitus you have. Is it ring or hiss? Noise induced, trauma, or medication? I'm about to start Ketamine treatment and very curios. I would really appreciate it.

 

[GBB]

Would you mind elaborating on the type of tinnitus you have. Is it ring or hiss? Noise induced, trauma, or medication? I'm about to start Ketamine treatment and very curios. I would really appreciate it.

Just wanted to see if you had tried this as I am also considering it.

 

[Matchbox]

Everyone is different.

I've read of people whose tinnitus disappeared after Ketamine, and others where their tinnitus became wavering with distorted robotic hearing.

The worsenings "SEEMED" to be temporary from what I've read. Still, it's a gamble.

So basically flip a coin. It's either some pathway is too inhibited or another is too excited. The Ketamine will tone all of them down, so it's a crap shoot as to did it get the right one (or the wrong one).

 

[Lukee]

Everyone is different.

I've read of people whose tinnitus disappeared after Ketamine, and others where their tinnitus became wavering with distorted robotic hearing.

The worsenings "SEEMED" to be temporary from what I've read. Still, it's a gamble.

So basically flip a coin. It's either some pathway is too inhibited or another is too excited. The Ketamine will tone all of them down, so it's a crap shoot as to did it get the right one (or the wrong one).

I agree with this. It really is a flip of the coin. The Arizona clinic says it works for a portion of tinnitus patients and the results can be permanent. As you mentioned, worsening seems to be temporary but it's always a risk I suppose. I don't know much about the science of neurotransmitters, only that it's next to impossible to measure them in the brain (currently). If we could know someone's chemical makeup, I guess we could figure out which treatments might be beneficial. I've also heard that IV infusion is the only ketamine therapy that works for tinnitus.

 

[Matchbox]

I agree with this. It really is a flip of the coin. The Arizona clinic says it works for a portion of tinnitus patients and the results can be permanent. As you mentioned, worsening seems to be temporary but it's always a risk I suppose. I don't know much about the science of neurotransmitters, only that it's next to impossible to measure them in the brain (currently). If we could know someone's chemical makeup, I guess we could figure out which treatments might be beneficial. I've also heard that IV infusion is the only ketamine therapy that works for tinnitus.

And I was told steroids can't possibly make it permanently worse. I asked twice.

Guess what happened when the steroids finished?

I must be special.

There's posts of people getting permanent tinnitus after tripping hard on DXM.

DXM, for your information, has a VERY similar mechanism to Ketamine (blocks glutamate receptors with pretty high affinity), just a shorter half life (which to me means safer) and easier to get (side effects obviously of high doses, oral ingestion, like x4 above regular dose).

I tried DXM. Yes, the "ringing" can go away (blew my mind), but trust me, you don't want what it gives in return for noises (thank god "most" of that faded). Think carol of the bells with only bells, it is almost indescribable. A very interesting experience, but likely what hell on earth is if it stuck around (it's the kind of wavering low frequency intrusive garbage that would make anyone jump into a train, trust me, ringing is the tip of the iceberg to this and it can be SO much worse).

Every drug I've tried DOES something, and I ALWAYS pay for it. Feels zero sum and unfair.

 

[Paul Walter]

My tinnitus is noise induced - a loud pitched constant ring. Be careful or should I say give it serious thought. I had Ketamine and it caused a permanent spike it did not go away or reduce after procedure.

 

[Lukee]

My tinnitus is noise induced - a loud pitched constant ring. Be careful or should I say give it serious thought. I had Ketamine and it caused a permanent spike it did not go away or reduce after procedure.

Thanks for the heads up. Did you notice the spike immediately after?

 

[Paul Walter]

Did you notice the spike immediately after?

Yes it was immediate.

 

[ChristianEsco]

There was someone on reddit who claimed he got rid of his tinnitus via ketamine and pramipexole - he said he was a biology student/researcher. I tried to get more information from him but never heard back, unfortunately.

Either way I would say it could have a significant effect as it clearly seems to touch on those receptors.

I have 4.5 grams of 95.5% pure mass spectrometer tested Ketamine. What should I do with it? I usually just snort it.

 

[VeganJS]

I know this is an old post, and I hope you're doing well with whatever you decided.

The short answer is Yes! My tinnitus was barely noticeable until after probably close to 100 hours of Ketamine infusions over 2.5 years. The last treatment sent it to a level I never knew existed. It happened during the treatment, which was at the same very high dose I'd had for the last 5 or 6 treatments.

A couple things were different, which the doctor knew about. I'd changed benzos, hadn't taken any in about 36-48 hours (extremely long half life, but apparently it didn't matter, benzos block Ketamine, thereby making it less effective) and the doctor administered Propofol and a numbing agent.

This is a rare side effect, but if I already had the tinnitus I have now and I knew it could make it worse, I would stay away, and I am now, but it's too late for me.

 

[TomBradyGOAT]

I know this is an old post, and I hope you're doing well with whatever you decided.

The short answer is Yes! My tinnitus was barely noticeable until after probably close to 100 hours of Ketamine infusions over 2.5 years. The last treatment sent it to a level I never knew existed. It happened during the treatment, which was at the same very high dose I'd had for the last 5 or 6 treatments.

A couple things were different, which the doctor knew about. I'd changed benzos, hadn't taken any in about 36-48 hours (extremely long half life, but apparently it didn't matter, benzos block Ketamine, thereby making it less effective) and the doctor administered Propofol and a numbing agent.

This is a rare side effect, but if I already had the tinnitus I have now and I knew it could make it worse, I would stay away, and I am now, but it's too late for me.

There are so many factors. I still don't know if you are saying it is definitely the Ketamine? Changing benzos can have the effects of withdrawal. That is why if someone is to move from Klonopin to Valium, it is a slow adjustment over.

Having had tinnitus for five years and having had my fair share of Ketamine (most was 600 mg IV with Propofol), I can attest to it making it louder for a day at most. Also sensitivity, distortion and low rumbling noises happen. I never freak out as it will pass and it does. But causing it to be permanent, before never having it or a permanent increase, I just really haven't seen much of.

There are a few. One being a person who snorted five grams. But man at that point it could have been laced, people do Ketamine at raves, so it is most likely the music, or some form of HPPD.

I am definitely not calling you a liar. Just want to know when benzos are notorious for inducing tinnitus, especially as a cross taper can induce withdrawals.

What was the numbing agent? What was the IV amount?

 

[VeganJS]

There are so many factors. I still don't know if you are saying it is definitely the Ketamine? Changing benzos can have the effects of withdrawal. That is why if someone is to move from Klonopin to Valium, it is a slow adjustment over.

Having had tinnitus for five years and having had my fair share of Ketamine (most was 600 mg IV with Propofol), I can attest to it making it louder for a day at most. Also sensitivity, distortion and low rumbling noises happen. I never freak out as it will pass and it does. But causing it to be permanent, before never having it or a permanent increase, I just really haven't seen much of.

There are a few. One being a person who snorted five grams. But man at that point it could have been laced, people do Ketamine at raves, so it is most likely the music, or some form of HPPD.

I am definitely not calling you a liar. Just want to know when benzos are notorious for inducing tinnitus, especially as a cross taper can induce withdrawals.

What was the numbing agent? What was the IV amount?

It happened within 10 minutes after the infusion began. So, yes, I'm sure.

I've been on benzos for years. They never were a problem, and still don't affect my tinnitus.

I never have withdrawn from benzos, so I don't know what you're talking about. I always skipped them for a day or two before my treatments.

How many mg I was on is irrelevant. I had higher doses than that one, but for MH, they were much higher than normal protocol.

 

[xerpes]

I've had a lot of the high dose IV and oral Ketamine. Oral temporarily made my tinnitus more noticeable, but the IV actually made it all but disappear.

 

[Barb S]

I have done several rounds of at-home Ketamine therapy (troches/lozenges that you dissolve under your tongue rather than infusions).

I perceived a spike in the volume of my tinnitus during more than one session, but it didn't stay that way - it returned to the baseline after I returned to real life. I found it to be helpful in lifting my mood and I felt I gained a lot of insight through journaling and talking with a guide afterward.

I was actually hoping the neuroplasticity that Ketamine creates might help me habituate - that didn't happen for me.

 

[Nannie]

I had only one Ketamine treatment and had immediate spike in tinnitus to the point of being light headed. I am scheduled for my second dose in two days but am so scared it will get even worse. I had been taking Klonopin and having deep tissue work on my neck that had reduced the sound to a level I barely noticed. Now it is back with a vengeance.

I need advice on whether to continue the Ketamine treatment. My anxiety is also way worse. The issue could be that I only stopped the benzo 24 hours prior to the first treatment.