Career in Music — Now Hearing Loss & Tinnitus — How to Cope

[Bobby B]

@RandomAccess10
Can you pls elaborate on that poisoning ? What happened and how much were you exposed to ?
I didn't know about this potential issue

 

[Reinier]

only difference is you have somehow managed.

Not to discourage you, but I have not managed yet.
Every distortion triggers stress. It is utterly useless for me to "try" to forget.

I consider life before my NIHL and life after NIHL.
I tried CBT, LLLT, Neuromodululation and the usual supplements.

Time will give habituation. Not trying to habituate. That at least is my experience.
What I slowly start to recognise is that the anxiety only wears with time.
I think I have to except it will never go away.

It amazes me after reading all the posts in this thread, experiences are pretty much the same. People that have a special connection with music and/or audio all seem to respond the same to this life changing condition.
Why than is there so much blatant disbelieve in people that do not have this condition? Including some "experts" in the medical community. We are not making this up. If we were, stories would differ. Experiences are practically similar.

Get used to the detriment, use an EQ to deal with the hyperacusis

Unfortunately there is more to it than only hyperacusis. I recognise that definition/resolution in my hearing is lost. An equalizer will not correct this. I always realized that it is amazing what you are able to hear when you learned to listen for it. Perhaps people that used to really listen to sound find it more difficult to adapt to this condition.

Distortion, but also definition/resolution: As you know healthy hearing is able to hear with astounding definition.
I did not use MP3. Always uncompressed. I only used the equalizer to correct acoustics in the room I was listening in. Like I posted earlier I wanted to build a room for listening. That way I would not need an equalizer. I just wanted to change the room if something "coloured" the sound.
I did not see this as an obsession. Just a very gratifying hobby (-;
I can not use the equalizer to "correct" my hearing loss.
Apart from the amount of correction needed.

On a positive note: apparently sometimes, even after years, something can change for the better in effected hearing.
I don't think it is known whether this is because of changes in the inner ear or if it is brain plasticity.

 

[maltese]

@RandomAccess10
Can you pls elaborate on that poisoning ? What happened and how much were you exposed to ?
I didn't know about this potential issue

I don't think it was oxygen that caused tinnitus. Actually, oxygen therapy can be beneficial after tinnitus induced by noise trauma.

I would blame CO poisoning. Larger exposures can lead to toxicity of the central nervous system, and thus to tinnitus.

 

[RandomAccess10]

Bobby can you elaborate on LLLT? I (am/was) an electronics engineer so would try this, whats the method, how does it work?...

Carbon monoxide is ototoxic, it damages the nerves through oxygen deprivation hypoxia... I read a lot about this, although apparently it's not the hypoxia that causes so much damage, but the free radical production and lipid peroxidation when oxygen levels are restored that causes the damage, programmed cell death or something...

In my case it's unbelievable bad luck. I was depressed after some bad life events (partner screwing me over etc) occurring simultaneously so went to my doctor who prescribed antidepressants, I took just one after putting it off for 4 weeks because I was scared of the side effects, but was also taking St Johns wort at the same time and unknown to me this can cause a fatal reaction, i had a FIT and collapsed, it knocked me about and left some serious damage. I thought it was just a bad reaction to the first pill, nope...

When I complained to the doctor he thought I was making it up because I didn't know to tell him about St Johns wort, I was made out to be 'crazy' and then literally forced to take more ADs. Meanwhile I was actually also experiencing low level carbon monoxide poisoning exposure for about 3 months, I had severe headaches, eye problems like double vision, hearing fluctuating, dizziness, I went to my doctor multiple times but he said it was 'anxiety' also, I assumed it was drug side effects and would clear up. As problems got worse it really made my anxiety go out of control, losing vision and hearing freaked me out naturally I became seriously desperate, the doctor thought I was crazy and I was pretty much forced to take seroquel, mirtazapene and benzos all together, this only made things worse. So I was being CO poisoned, and also these drugs are known to cause CNS issues masking it or making it worse. Hypoxia and blood vessel constriction due to drugs isn't a good combo...the more I complained to the doctor, the crazier he thought I was...I eventually managed to break the loop but have permanent damage now...my balance is better but eyesight, hearing and body is f**ked

I want to sue the doctor obviously for the misdiagnosis,but the CO is well gone (tho not sure from my body), and I cannot get proof of CO because it's in the past, cannot prove hearing damage because apparently my hearing is fine (upto 8k only counts of course), eyesight is obviously fine because I can still 'see' a chart (despite optic nerve damage), and balance is a 'neck issue' apparently...my life is over...all thanks to one pill. I wouldn't have been fobbed off by the doctor and CO poisoning quickly identified and recovery possible if I hadn't taken the SSRI...such a mess, and now I'm left in hell with no recompensation or support...

The way in which the CO/drugs affected my hearing was simply reduced amplitude, more and more each day, then later on distortion at mid frequency and like midrange was gone, it remained quiet. Then a few weeks later there was a loud noise (rain on a plastic roof), and the whole lot went really really quiet so much I checked into a&e who told me it was mental health issues again, then hearing came back a little slowly unconsciously but never loud, loud sounds are no longer loud just like compressed. I didn't really have tinnitus or anything at that point just quiet hearing. Then I had 1 session of oxygen for 2 hours, and developed tinnitus and high frequency hearing loss, like it was the final straw for already weakened and damaged ears...I think it was oxygen toxicity, I.E. the damage to CNS they say is caused by oxidative stress ROS after the CO poisoning, so taking oxygen I'm sure just added to it . I was scared that might happen, but also scared if I didn't do anything about the CO I would be more damaged...a catch 22, so only did 1 session to see how it went, that was enough to wipe my HF..the doctor wouldn't help me, the literature said oxygen therapy for SSHL so...I literally cannot forgive myself, id rather have full range damaged hearing than HF loss AND TINNITUS in addition...I can't forgive myself for taking the first AD because I never wanted that stuff in my body in the place, how it could of got so out of control to lose my eyesight, hearing etc. I can't even be SURE the CO was the cause, it could have been the drug interactions...

Meanwhile I have to leave my whole career and life behind, I reviewed speakers, designed hi quality audio, I built a Bible of electronic design techniques for the best sound quality, head hunted for my skills by a&h, novation, behringer, etc...now I live debilitated like a tramp just struggling...ppl really don't get what the issue is, I can still hear 'speech' I simply want to disappear and cease to exist, I am not living...

Reinier, with regard the EQing, I think I was trying to suggest deriving an 'acceptable' sound, where it doesn't nag or sound awful, the resolution/definition of course sadly is lost, I understand what you mean about healthy hearing being that sensitive, it's heartbreaking...I'm not sure how your hearing is, my issue is everything sounds TINNY I think due to recruitment, there's no air or atmosphere thus everything sounds dead and emotionless... I tried the EQ thing and it doesn't really make it sound good, but less irritating... I want to kill someone for this horrific loss, me?...

Let's pray for a cure in our lifetimes. I'm not going to hold my breath and not sure if I'll still be around when it happens...

Brain plasticity seems to be helping with balance issues (I cannot keep my eyes on a fixed point due to vestibular damage) tho this is getting better, I think CO targets the inner ear especially well, whence dizziness as a symptom... I might of recovered if I hadn't trashed my ears with oxygen therapy... I'm pretty sure this is a double edged sword.

 

[VRZ78]

When doctors say that it's your anxiety is that they have no idea what's going wrong with you. They screwed me too.

For LLLT I suggest you go to a professional but that's my opinion

The sooner you start the more chances you have to recover

 

[VRZ78]

If you had problems with free radicals that's another reason to take antioxidants like Q10 and NAC they will lower your level of free radicals

 

[VRZ78]

Do you also have some frequencies that stand out of the mix ? When there are some high pitch sounds in song they feel like they are coming from just next to my ears and are really loud compare to the rest even though the speaker is several meters away...

 

[SilverSpiral]

Do you also have some frequencies that stand out of the mix ? When there are some high pitch sounds in song they feel like they are coming from just next to my ears and are really loud compare to the rest even though the speaker is several meters away...

I get this too, but they aren't the actual sounds from the source, I don't actually hear the definition of the sound at certain frequencies and it gets replaced by a puretone/resonant/whistle however to describe it, always the same sound, except interestingly that sound can be modulated depending on the nature of the source sound. And like you said it is like it is coming from closer to you than the actual source sound.

@RandomAccess10 What was the cause of the CO poisoning?

 

[3ri0w]

I get this too, but they aren't the actual sounds from the source, I don't actually hear the definition of the sound at certain frequencies and it gets replaced by a puretone/resonant/whistle however to describe it, always the same sound, except interestingly that sound can be modulated depending on the nature of the source sound. And like you said it is like it is coming from closer to you than the actual source sound.

@RandomAccess10 What was the cause of the CO poisoning?

Maybe we can form a band together.... The Whistlers

 

[RandomAccess10]

I find it sounds like I'm listening through a low quality stream, there's a hard cut off at 12k and nothing above and yes a high frequency resonance/hiss where all the highs seem combined. Although that doesn't seem so bad, it makes listening to music horrible, no air or depth, like a sharp, low quality sibilance. It makes me constantly subconsciously unblock my ears, but obviously that's pointless... I wish it wasn't true where am I going to find peace and happiness, music was my only source, I'm still in denial

My story is horrific I know, the CO poisoning was actually from heavy smoking, I was so depressed and then I was being forced to take medication I stopped taking care of myself... I didn't think it would harm me in the short term. I was getting dizzy etc and all sorts of stuff happening I attributed to drug side effects, but in retrospect that couldnt have been... I'm not sure even if the drug interaction I had damaged the blood brain barrier, allowing toxins to damage my CNS. Who has ever known eyesight/ hearing damage from smoking over a period of days... I hate myself for it, I literally killed myself, and feel like it's karma and I now must finish the job... I was DEPRESSED, forced onto drugs against my own will, signed off work, locked in a hospital, and being told all my problems were anxiety when I knew they weren't, what else am I going to do but smoke, there was nothing else to do but smoke and panic the forced medication would cause another fit...a horrific trap. This life is too cruel sometimes, I literally took care of myself all my life for 40 yrs, smoke only occasionally, then this happened after taking one pill from the doctor, I think my body wasn't used to the drugs and toxins...

 

[Bobby B]

I work a lot around old cars with fairly high level of CO when the engine is running not sure if this may be a factor in hearing issues..

for LLLT there is a whole thread going on have a read - its cheap, safe and best for acoustic trauma at the acute stage

When doctors say that it's your anxiety is that they have no idea what's going wrong with you. They screwed me too.

For LLLT I suggest you go to a professional but that's my opinion

The sooner you start the more chances you have to recover

The only reason to go to a "professional " was because they use much more powerful and wide light sources which are far more effective than the low power "home devices" lasers.
This is no longer the case - you can have the same or even higher power device for under 100 dollars ready to be used.

As far as what they do, there isn't any secret or special tricks the protocol has been discussed in depth in our LLLT threads

Restoring some hearing using light is a 3 to 4 years process according to Wilden and one other study - doing it at home makes sense, not only for cost but also convenience , a single session isn't going to the same impact unless it's done in the few days after acoustic trauma perhaps

 

[RandomAccess10]

I'll look into that thank you, I'm sceptical how it could work however? I honestly just feel like ending it, everyday I wake up in physical pain, I just don't know how ppl cope with such a loss, how can I stop the Suicidal thoughts, life is now without colour it's hell

 

[VRZ78]

I'll look into that thank you, I'm sceptical how it could work however? I honestly just feel like ending it, everyday I wake up in physical pain, I just don't know how ppl cope with such a loss, how can I stop the Suicidal thoughts, life is now without colour it's hell

Yeah I feel like that to but I tell myself I should try everything available at least.
Today is awful, I got a bad cold and some distortions / tinnitus tones that went away are now back.... Ears are full too and can not pop

 

[VRZ78]

Also I tell myself that if I end it all and they come up with a treatment soon after I'll feel silly.

At least for now I can sing and listen to some songs in my head... Hope I won't forget them.

 

[RandomAccess10]

Do you think 3 weeks is too late to do anything about this dxcess oxygen I took, did I kill the cells or are they shocked. Coming to terms with this is impossible, music was literally my life and although some ppl can accept it, I can't see me eber being happy again without some sort of strategy... I was depressed and then the doctors do this....its incomprehensible how cruel life can be strategies to cope are there any??

 

[RaZaH]

I was musician , acoustician as well , I can relate .
All my life is built around audio , all my friends , connections , musicians.
No one "knows" why i disappeared from the scene, I cant handle telling anyone.

Now I repair analog synths ,, but that is also hard as I have to meet and deal with musicians all day.
I have never envied anyone in my life , now I am dying of envy of all my musician friends who take music life for granted. Having said that , this has ruined my life to the point that now all i ask for is not to suffer, dropping music out of my life is a side issue at this point.

 

[Sebastians]

The distortions, sensitivity to higher frequencies as well as mild H did go down a lot for me over the course of one year. I am currently building a small home recording studio in the guest room so i can at least write, compose and record at sensible volumes in the comfort of my own appartment.
Besides from not playing live (probably ever again) as well as ditching my headphones, i have rekindled my love for music and am back to a good routine for practising guitar (lower volumes, 30-60 mins daily). It will never be the same, but there's ways to work around it.

Moreover, quite a few 'famous' musicians with T are still performing. No idea how they do it, but it's not entirely impossible.

 

[RandomAccess10]

RaZaH I see a few of us in the same boat, I was offered a job working on designing the latest analogue synths and didn't take the job, but went to doctor for antidepressants instead to try and get myself in a better frame of mind before doing it, then this happens. I literally hate myself, hate the doctors who did this to me, and the emotion is that powerful I want to murder them, they murdered me... I also think about just pretending, and carrying on, even tho I'll never get to hear the results I understand the process, all my contacts are music lovers too - when my friend a speaker builder told me he was bored of music I literally wanted to punch him...my only relief is I can listen to low quality classic music OK on a crappy system, but my life was electronic music, total atmospheric soundscapes from some of the most cutting edge and deepest artists on the planet, it's like the water has dried up, I can't bear not having such a personal thing, it was just me, Dali's, a roskan and 120,000 music collection all I ever needed in life, now it's like a struggle to find joy in anything and seems futile, I guess more socialising is the positive... It's such early days, I.want to write out what those favourite tracks meant so I don't forget myself and die. I just pray to God there are solutions in the future.

 

[RaZaH]

Yes, in the early days there is a lot of blame and regret. That will pass somewhat as with time all you really care about is having a healthy non-siren life. So there´s that , I guess if I could give any advice then its to try and move as quickly as possible through the grief and regret, time will definitely fix that a bit ...but yeah.

Sucks....

 

[racerfish]

Very sorry to hear about your experience. I'm a big music buff and used to love going to concerts and such. I also use to play piano and saxaphone. Concerts now are a big no for me. Some classical music I can handle, but anything with amplified sound is absolutely out of the question for me. I've tried on more than one occasion to push my luck and regretted it. It's an adjustment for sure, but most people do habituate to their T. As for not being able to pursue what you love, that's a tough one. Do you have other passions that you could pursue, or could you continue doing something different with music but still leverage your talents in a different way?

You're the person I've heard of who's gotten T from carbon monoxide. What did your doctor say in terms of managing your symptoms or any kind of treatment?

 

[RandomAccess10]

The doctors told me i was making it up...it's too late to treat, I keep meaning to give blood but I don't know if this will help, i already screwed up badly doing the oxygen therapy, I cannot believe that, I'm going to try to get some steroids from the doc but think it's far too late, life is now with the treble off...how did you get your T? How bdoes it stop you from playing? Mine is wide-band hiss, if it were just a single tone I think I could drown it out and carry on. My hearing goes to 12k that's it, nothing beyond. 12-16k is a wall of hiss i just put the radio on now...

 

[RandomAccess10]

Im trying Prednisone, probably way too late but I'll try anything my T is bad now, a hiss, wakes me up at 5am and I can't sleep. Has to be the worst year ever I would rather have died

 

[Jason C]

Im trying Prednisone, probably way too late but I'll try anything my T is bad now, a hiss, wakes me up at 5am and I can't sleep. Has to be the worst year ever I would rather have died

My hearing goes too 13.5k and that's all, I know I could hear up to and past 18k before.
I know what you mean about the worst year of your life. I feel the same.

 

[RandomAccess10]

It's impossible isn't it. This morning, starting 2017 with no hope, I had this inflicted on me with the fear of drugs and noone is accountable... Suicidal today, what is there in life without music or sound... How does one cope that's my question. I feel like hiding in a cave until it's better just madness of emotions.

 

[RaZaH]

you still have a pretty good chance of this going away.
in fact I would say , more of a chance if you try and not obsess too much , if it turns out to be permanent you will have a lifetime to obsess about this, seriously it is very important to reduce stress, obsessive thinking etc,

 

[Jason C]

It's impossible isn't it. This morning, starting 2017 with no hope, I had this inflicted on me with the fear of drugs and noone is accountable... Suicidal today, what is there in life without music or sound... How does one cope that's my question. I feel like hiding in a cave until it's better just madness of emotions.

I know, problem is you can wait forever and it won't get better, we just hope it won't get worse.
I made a wish that I could wake up and it would be 1st January 2016 as everything was perfect and everything was too play for. Not really sure how I been about the new year. I usually love it as it's like a whole new fresh start with new plans and adventures. Dunno how this ones gonna pan out though.

How long have you been dealing with this??

 

[RandomAccess10]

Same here, exactly 1 year ago I was in perfect health, all started after taking ONE antidepressant pill, I just can't handle it, all my life music non stop now I'm struggling to hear across the table...like a perpetual cold blocked ears. Been like this only for a few months but T only for a month or so... How do you remain positive?

 

[Jason C]

I am far from positive. The self hate is killing me. My problems started when I went too shut off a powerful external sounder! I knew the dangers and still did it!! I have no answers for what made me do it, complete madness. All I had too do was do nothing and everything would be fine.
I try and keep things the way they where, I get up and go too work, go too gym, try and be normal but it's so hard, it's on my mind all the time, my balance is affected, the ringing and hissing really gets me down. Apart from that though I would say my hearing is still pretty good although I can't hear past 13.5k but I never find myself saying what.

 

[RandomAccess10]

Life sucks doesn't it, all I had to do too was nothing, I was adamant I wouldn't take antidepressants because of the side effects then take one, guided by family and friends and now here I am 8 months later with eyesight, hearing and balance problems, my quality of life now is so poor I know I feel obliged to end it somehow, finding the courage is impossible, it would be irrational to go on with these problems. The cascade of events, ADs are evil... I was so healthy for 40 years and now I'm a write off, I can't accept being 'broken'. If I was born like this maybe but having known 40 years of involvement in pro -audio and leading research in electronic arts, f**k that...
Your sounder is probably like my tinnitus, it's similar, a hi FREQ hiss and tones at about 10k for me, it's loud enough to fill the space in my hearing in normal daily activities...What do you find helps with the T? Playing sounds at the same frequencies? I was listening to river sounds last night, sort of helped, tho listening to music is depressing, I don't know wether to try and move on from my past music interests and start a new chapter just accepting that's gone, and move onto low fi radio instead...

What happened with your balance??
Did you try Prednisone??
I find on a hearing test my hearing looks normal to 13.5k like you, except I get peaks now at 4-6k which ruins listening, id be fine if it were flat...did you notice this happening initially, any improvements with time?

 

[RandomAccess10]

you still have a pretty good chance of this going away.
in fact I would say , more of a chance if you try and not obsess too much , if it turns out to be permanent you will have a lifetime to obsess about this, seriously it is very important to reduce stress, obsessive thinking etc,

It's been a month now, sure obsessive thinking isn't helping, it's just new to me and catastrophic, I took oxygen to try and cure hearing loss and it wiped out my high frequency response and gave me T... how did you handle it's progress?