Chickenpox and Tinnitus ...

[Dr. Nagler]

You want to get from Point A to Point B in the worst way. The problem is that there is a huge boulder blocking your path. You can wait for science to create a machine that will allow you to pulverize the builder, so you can continue along your path. Or you can take a detour and walk around the boulder. Sure the boulder will still be there, but what difference does it make?

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[RichL]

I don't understand this. Your mind is always changing. When you have a new idea is that brainwashing? When someone convinces you that hey, you should believe X instead of Y is that brainwashing? Just curious where you draw the line.

For me, I was skeptical of TRT too. I didn't get a whole lot out of the direct counseling session and kind of thought my mind would refuse to allow it to work... kind of like if you know the placebo is a placebo kind of thing. But, I was wrong.

I went along with the program and well it appears your mind can't resist rewiring itself even if you don't think it will. I don't consider it brainwashing at all. It's just the way the human body works.

So what are you saying? your brain is rewired now so you don't hear you T? Well I'm very skeptical of that if that's what your saying but I some how doubt that's what you meant!

When someone convinces you that hey, you should believe X instead of Y is that brainwashing?

Well yes, I'm afraid anything that has instilled the beliefs or ideas of another individual into you and is not your own idea or belief,(like it or not), is a form of brainwashing!

When you have a new idea is that brainwashing?

No, not unless you think of it as brainwashing yourself.

Just read about the rise of Nazi Germany, brainwashing on a major scale!

Rich

 

[RichL]

You want to get from Point A to Point B in the worst way. The problem is that there is a huge boulder blocking your path. You can wait for science to create a machine that will allow you to pulverize the builder, so you can continue along your path. Or you can take a detour and walk around the boulder. Sure the boulder will still be there, but what difference does it make?

Dr. Stephen Nagler

But once you have passed it, even if it's still there, it's behind you and out of your life for good unless you go back that way!
Don't get me wrong @Dr. Nagler , I can see what your getting at but for some it just doesn't cut it!

Rich

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Don't get me wrong @Dr. Nagler , I can see what your getting at but for some it just doesn't cut it!

You are absolutely right.

As far as I know, nobody suggested otherwise.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[nogood]

Yeap true that..@richl
my anuty an ent doctor tried to brainwash me by distracting me saying it's nothing.
if you are not aware you will not be bothered by it, less troublesome for you less distraction in life, easier for habituiation I guess.
I do not know abt CBT or trt nor do I have access to it. I simply learned to live with the t by telling myself endure this until a cure comes up. I guess for many people they will need help with process.
My focus changed from fighting with T to living with T until cure comes up.
Not easy though, my distractions from T are towards making my life better.
@Dr. Nagler
Definition of point a and point b matters doesn't it ?
If point b meaning learning to live with T or does it mean making T disappear.
Or point b meaning simply meaning returning to normal life by choosing a path to ignore the T or curing the T.

You want to get from Point A to Point B in the worst way. The problem is that there is a huge boulder blocking your path. You can wait for science to create a machine that will allow you to pulverize the builder, so you can continue along your path. Or you can take a detour and walk around the boulder. Sure the boulder will still be there, but what difference does it make?

Dr. Stephen Nagler

Yeah, that was my point, you were aware that the noise was there but it was only when you found out what it was that you started worrying about it.
No amount of therapy is going to make anyone's T disappear, only a cure to fix the problem or symptom will do that!

Rich

 

[russiancarl]

So what are you saying? your brain is rewired now so you don't hear you T? Well I'm very skeptical of that if that's what your saying but I some how doubt that's what you meant!

Rich

No, I still hear my Tinnitus tho it is getting better.

What I'm saying is that you can't fight biology.

And this is a far cry from nazi germany brainwashing.

 

[jazz]

But once you have passed it, even if it's still there, it's behind you and out of your life for good unless you go back that way!
Don't get me wrong @Dr. Nagler , I can see what your getting at but for some it just doesn't cut it!

Rich

Hey everyone, let's just agree to disagree and move on! Obviously, many people feel that noise and other factors prevent habituation; other people don't believe this. And I don't believe either side will ever agree with the other.

 

[RichL]

No, I still hear my Tinnitus tho it is getting better.

What I'm saying is that you can't fight biology.

And this is a far cry from nazi germany brainwashing.

I know it's a far cry, it was just to stress my point about brainwashing and the fact that it happens all the time in everyday life, some of it good some of it bad!

Rich

 

[cullenbohannon]

We can call it brain washing if you'd like, but when your young, at least me , i was afraid of the dark as i grew older my psychological pathways changed and i lost that fear. You can change physiological pathways when your apart of a group like the example you brought up with nazis. I played soccer my whole life and as a team we would practice and devout ourselves to winning we changed our psychological pathways in this regard to. Winning was the only thing that mattered to us. We would never have been so focused and dedicated without one another.

With that said i agree we ought to find a cure, but i don't think its fair to call TRT brainwashing with all its negative connotations. Especially because new sufferers will come , and something like TRT could be what helps them get better but they don't because they see something like this. At the same time we can have someone who comes on the site with hope of getting habituating, but they see all the stuff from people who don't think habituation is real or that its a scam and this and that and they will start to get brainwashed into thinking its either eliminate the noise completely or suffer. ( Not saying your one of them Rich)

Like I said anything that changes a psychological pathway is a form of brainwashing!

 

[RichL]

We can call it brain washing if you'd like, but when your young, at least me , i was afraid of the dark as i grew older my psychological pathways changed and i lost that fear. You can change physiological pathways when your apart of a group like the example you brought up with nazis. I played soccer my whole life and as a team we would practice and devout ourselves to winning we changed our psychological pathways in this regard to. Winning was the only thing that mattered to us. We would never have been so focused and dedicated without one another.

With that said i agree we ought to find a cure, but i don't think its fair to call TRT brainwashing with all its negative connotations. Especially because new sufferers will come , and something like TRT could be what helps them get better but they don't because they see something like this. At the same time we can have someone who comes on the site with hope of getting habituating, but they see all the stuff from people who don't think habituation is real or that its a scam and this and that and they will start to get brainwashed into thinking its either eliminate the noise completely or suffer. ( Not saying your one of them Rich)

Brainwashing doesn't have to be a negativity, there is all sorts of brainwashing some good and some bad.
I didn't call TRT complete brainwashing just that there is a fare amount of it that calls for brainwashing to a certain degree.
How ever it's looked at, changing physiological pathways is brainwashing, not necessarily always in a negative form, there is good brainwashing and bad but, brainwashing all the same!

At the same time we can have someone who comes on the site with hope of getting habituating, but they see all the stuff from people who don't think habituation is real or that its a scam and this and that and they will start to get brainwashed into thinking its either eliminate the noise completely or suffer. ( Not saying your one of them Rich)

I agree and would never indicate to anyone that habituation is not real, I would be the first to say that no matter what the affliction, you can get used to it.
In general I agree with you post @cullenbohannon

Rich

 

[jazz]

Brainwashing doesn't have to be a negativity

Yes, it does, though I'm sure you were not aware of this.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brainwashing​

That said, let's not argue here. Our brain is constantly adapting--for better and for worse. Neuroplasticity refers to this adaption. Specifically, neuroplasticity is our brain's ability to develop new neural pathways in response to stimulation--whether that stimulation is intentional (learning a new skill) or unintentional (developing tinnitus).

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/neuroplasticity?show=0&t=1410668909​

All people who habituate to their tinnitus--regardless of the method employed--form new neural pathways to enable this occurrence.

 

[RichL]

Yes, it does, though I'm sure you were not aware of this.

Just one little argue if I may, There is positive and negative brainwashing.
Like it or not right from the word go we are brainwashed by our parents right through adolescence, (that is why a large percentage of us vote the way our parents do or did!) and share the relatively same ideologies as our parents.

But I'm possibly nit picking here so I will desist!

That said, let's not argue here. Our brain is constantly adapting--for better and for worse. Neuroplasticity refers to this adaption. Specifically, neuroplasticity is our brain's ability to develop new neural pathways in response to stimulation--whether that stimulation is intentional (learning a new skill) or unintentional (developing tinnitus).

All people who habituate to their tinnitus--regardless of the method employed--form new neural pathways to enable this occurrence.

habituate
həˈbɪtʃʊeɪt,-tjʊ-/
verb

1. make or become accustomed or used to something.
   "bears can become habituated to people very easily"
   synonyms:accustom, make used, adapt, adjust, attune, acclimatize, acculturate,inure, harden; More
   

How ever technical one wants to say it, forming new pathways or neuroplasticity is still just getting used to it and accepting it as ones new normal.

Rich

 

[jazz]

There is positive and negative brainwashing.

All brainwashing is negative; but I agree to disagree with you.

 

[RichL]

All brainwashing is negative; but I agree to disagree with you.

Yea we agree then!

 

[valeri]

I personally think that this "old school" of thinking about t is the reason there is still no cure or any meaningful relief.
It's all this habituation BS and "it's just a sound" that probably has never seen t getting a proper attention and realisation how
devastating it can be.
I've never heard of people being suicidal because of an itch.
So comparing t to an itch or a falling tree in the forest is the biggest crap I've heard.

People with influence should put their energy into more research being done, into more awareness of how serious t can be, instead of "brainwashing" about habituation and reaction and playing mind games.

If we didn't have this BS in our heads we would not have anything to react to! FACT!

Habituated or not you are never home free with t! FACT!!!

If medical world was still stuck with the opinion that cancer is incurable, today, 20-30 years later every person who gets it would die.
Thank god that's not the case.
So why do we still talk reaction/habituation when it comes to t?
Maybe it's time to change the tune!

 

[RichL]

Habituated or not you are never home free with t! FACT!!!

Agree!

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Habituated or not you are never home free with t!

Right.

Habituated means you don't care.

And until a true cure comes along, I'll take that every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[valeri]

@Dr. Nagler
If you could choose not to have t would you do it?

 

[RichL]

T worries some people, yet others seem to be able to just shrug it off and carry on, your either one or the other!
personally I don't believe you can be trained to ignore it if you are not that way to begin with!

Rich

 

[Dr. Nagler]

@Dr. Nagler
If you could choose not to have t would you do it?

Of course.

But here's the thing. Back in 1994, I would have cut off my right arm for a cure. Literally. Now? Now if a cure came along but there were only a million doses, I'd say give it to those who are suffering. I still have tinnitus, but I no longer suffer - so I'll wait. My tinnitus is incredibly loud and surely distracts me on occasion, but it causes me no distress.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[Dr. Nagler]

T worries some people, yet others seem to be able to just shrug it off and carry on, your either one or the other!
personally I don't believe you can be trained to ignore it if you are not that way to begin with!

Rich

Rich, my tinnitus pretty much put me in bed for a year. I was never a "shrug it" off kind of guy. I was a cancer surgeon, for goodness' sakes. That's the antithesis of "shrug it off." What I had to learn to do is see the world in shades of gray instead of all black and white.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[RichL]

Of course.

But here's the thing. Back in 1994, I would have cut off my right arm for a cure. Literally. Now? Now if a cure came along but there were only a million doses, I'd say give it to those who are suffering. I still have tinnitus, but I no longer suffer - so I'll wait. My tinnitus is incredibly loud and surely distracts me on occasion, but it causes me no distress.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

I can only take you from your word but I really do admire your attitude if your T is as loud as you say.
Me personally, my T now fluctuates between 15 to 19 db which to most would not be that loud but I am suffering from it and am having trouble coping.
Before my horrible spike in April it was probably half that in loudness and could cope after a few years of habituation!

I was probably one of the worst individuals to get this horrid affliction, I have a tendency towards paranoia of anything medically going wrong with me, I go into a panic about it very easily, hence why I am suffering with this T now!
It's weird actually I am very calm with most other facets to life and can easily work my way through most challenges, it's just my health that I am so paranoid of.
I don't think any amount of therapy would change my reaction to this T, not after 24 years!

Rich

 

[RichL]

Rich, my tinnitus pretty much put me in bed for a year. I was never a "shrug it" off kind of guy. I was a cancer surgeon, for goodness' sakes. That's the antithesis of "shrug it off." What I had to learn to do is see the world in shades of gray instead of all black and white.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

Like I said, (believe it or not), I really do admire your attitude towards it!

Rich

 

[T-Saiyan]

@ valeri
OMG
thank you, took the words right outta my freaking mouth brother.
its this " it doesnt bother me" carefree so called habituation non sense" that has these scientists and other doctors over in the medical field thinking tinnitus is a condition thats not that serious, which is SOOOOO far from the case.
I understand theres nothing we can do but acting like T isnt a big deal , better yet TELLING PEOPLE THAT T ISNT A BIG DEAL, is doing more harm then good. I already had a conspiracy thats been plaguing the back of my mind and its that if the people who had T 30-10 years ago had a more serious attitude about T, and went at doctors more aggressively that a cure / treatment already would have been made along long time ago.
but hey who am i to say.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I don't think any amount of therapy would change my reaction to this T, not after 24 years!

OK.

I'm not about to argue with you about something that personal.

But I implore you not to discount the experiences of others or in some way denigrate them like you did earlier in the thread just because they do not share your vision of the world.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[Dr. Nagler]

its this " it doesnt bother me carefree habituation non sense" that has people over in the medical field thinking
this is a condition thats not that serious. which is SOOOOO not the case. i understand theres nothing we can do but acting like T isnt a big deal if you ignore it is not only dumb but Damaging.

How is the fact that some folks have managed to overcome their tinnitus damaging? I should think you'd be happy for them instead of resenting them.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[RichL]

How is the fact that some folks have managed to overcome their tinnitus damaging? I should think you'd be happy for them instead of resenting them.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

Come on @Dr. Nagler , even I can work out what he meant, obviously getting at the fact that most in the medical field are not treating Tinnitus as serious as they should be and it doesn't help when the attitude is not to even care about a cure and put all efforts into TRT and the such!
Have they really got over there Tinnitus? I think not, it is still there!
Might I add too @Dr. Nagler , you say you were bed ridden with yours, well you had two choices as far as I can see!
1. Get out of bed, get over yourself and start to live again!
2. like it or not number 2 is kill yourself!
So really you can die or learn to live with it! that was your only two choices so it's not surprising that you chose the first one!
I don't think anyone is resenting people like yourself that can get over it and not give a shit, just the fact that you and the medical community seem so relaxed about a cure being found!
Nothing personal at all!

Rich

 

[cullenbohannon]

Just one observation, TRT came about because there were no treatments, and there were people suffering. There was a demand for it. I see this a lot on here that TRT and habituation related topics are what has kept and what is keeping a real cure. I did a search, and found research dating back to the 1980s about non habituation related theories and trials. None worked obviously.

I respect everyone right to have an opinion, but with all do respect to everyone i only care about facts. I don't know how we can conclude we would have a cure already if it were not for TRT. I dont live my life thinking what if this or what if that. Its useless to us all, but we are closer then ever and hope the cure will come about soon.

 

[RichL]

I think @cullenbohannon is right this is a fruitless argument that probably won't go anywhere so I will sign off on it.

Rich

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Come on @Dr. Nagler , even I can work out what he meant, obviously getting at the fact that most in the medical field are not treating Tinnitus as serious as they should be and it doesn't help when the attitude is not to even care about a cure and put all efforts into TRT and the such

The reason there is no cure for tinnitus has nothing to do with "TRT and the such."

Just out of curiosity, @RichL, how many letters have you written so far this year to various members of congress explaining the physical, psychological, social, and economic impact of tinnitus on you personally and on society as a whole, imploring them to fund research towards a cure. If it's ten, then I commend you. If it's any less, then before you blame habituation for the lack of a cure, take a look in a mirror.

No, of course I'm not blaming you. But what I'm saying is that it's one thing to point fingers and talk the talk; it's quite another to walk the talk.

Dr. Stephen Nagler