Clonazepam (Klonopin, Rivotril)

[linearb]

@sakrt I don't think "brand" matters. I grow my own but I was just in SF for a week and I tried all sorts of extracts and edibles and bud. it's all the same thing, ha, some strains are more sedating or more trippy, but if your intake is as high as mine, it doesn't matter.

again, I'm not suggesting this is a particularly good idea, but I enjoy it and it's basically free.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

@sakrt I don't think "brand" matters. I grow my own but I was just in SF for a week and I tried all sorts of extracts and edibles and bud. it's all the same thing, ha, some strains are more sedating or more trippy, but if your intake is as high as mine, it doesn't matter.

again, I'm not suggesting this is a particularly good idea, but I enjoy it and it's basically free.

It doesn't spike your T?

 

[sakrt]

@linearb: Thanks but still confused. If I want to grow my own, what name of seeds to order? This was tried once and it ended up as a hemp type =useless. What would you suggest to try for tinnitus suppression and hopefully sleep? In past with a friend, he shared a specific bud type, which was more of a mind numbing type (that he used to cope with CP). I think that kind would be good at this point to try again for tinnitus/hyperacusis, however, it really gave me a craving for Reeses peanut butter cups and the giggles. So- Good and Bad
No matter, giggles are good, even in sleep.

Would you have an idea what name/type that would be to try again?

 

[linearb]

It doesn't spike your T?

sometimes it does, but with heavy consistent intake it doesn't tend to, if anything it seems to be calming. If I stop using it for a couple weeks and then jump back in, that can cause anxiety which can make it seem louder.

@linearb: Thanks but still confused. If I want to grow my own, what name of seeds to order? This was tried once and it ended up as a hemp type =useless. What would you suggest to try for tinnitus suppression and hopefully sleep?

Some people swear by high CBD strains, but really we're all different and you have to experiment. CBD flower is hemp; the line between hemp and marijuana is whether the THC quantity exceeds 0.3% of the total weight.

I find that weed only helps my sleep if I really commit to it and use it on a very regular basis. If I try to use it infrequently when I'm having trouble sleeping, it just amps me up more.

A friend I saw recently told me that he takes mints that have 2.5mg of THC in them at bedtime and it helps him sleep a lot. That's a tiny fraction of my intake.

 

[gorzakus]

I can only advise not to try weed or ketamine or any hallucinogens when you are under stress and in an anxious state.
Depersonalisation / derealisation disorder is a real thing and can last for years 24/7.
A friend of mine got it from smoking a few joints.

 

[linearb]

I can only advise not to try weed or ketamine or any hallucinogens when you are under stress and in an anxious state.
Depersonalisation / derealisation disorder is a real thing and can last for years 24/7.
A friend of mine got it from smoking a few joints.

reasonable advice in terms of not messing with drugs when under stress, but, as someone who went through a severe period of DP/DR... it's incredibly uncommon, the risks of cannabis but itself inducing a state like that are VERY low, and if people wait until their early 20s or beyond to experiment with such things the risk is close to zero.

Of course there are weird reactions to everything, but, "my friend smoked a few joints and then had problems for years", is, uh, not a common occurrence, I'd say "freakishly unlikely"

 

[Lane]

Of course there are weird reactions to everything, but, "my friend smoked a few joints and then had problems for years", is, uh, not a common occurrence, I'd say "freakishly unlikely"

@linearb -- I just watched a segment on PBS entitled: Scientists race to learn how marijuana affects the brain -- Clip: 07/10/2019 | 9m 19s. It mentions that most serious side effects of MJ occur with young people, but those risks are greatly reduced if the person has a brain that's already fully developed. I've seen recent reports of heavy MJ use causing a higher incidence of neuroses in teenagers.

I don't know the exact incident rate that's been documented, but freakish things can always happen when you're dealing with how various things affect the brain. I met a man once who had a debilitating case of ME/CFS, which he said occurred immediately after snorting some cocaine (for first time in his life). Seems like sometimes a switch can get flipped, and all kinds of havoc can ensue. I think this reflects what often happens with tinnitus.

BTW, the above video mentions that people who are middle-aged often experience any number of benefits, including improved cognitive function, pain relief, alleviation of depression, anxiety, etc. I was waiting for them to say how it improved tinnitus!

 

[gorzakus]

reasonable advice in terms of not messing with drugs when under stress, but, as someone who went through a severe period of DP/DR... it's incredibly uncommon, the risks of cannabis but itself inducing a state like that are VERY low, and if people wait until their early 20s or beyond to experiment with such things the risk is close to zero.

Of course there are weird reactions to everything, but, "my friend smoked a few joints and then had problems for years", is, uh, not a common occurrence, I'd say "freakishly unlikely"

Well around 2 to 5 percent develop DP/DR after using drugs so it's uncommon yes but not extremely rare, but what is common is that people get panic attacks and even develop panic disorder.
That's why I am against people trying certain drugs when they are in an anxious state.
Can I ask how long you had DP/DR before and how did you get rid of it?

 

[linearb]

Well around 2 to 5 percent develop DP/DR after using drugs so it's uncommon yes but not extremely rare, but what is common is that people get panic attacks and even develop panic disorder.

Some wrong data here. For one thing you seem to be implying "2 to 5% of drug users go on to develop DP/DR", which is definitely not correct. 2% is about the total lifetime prevalence for depersonalization in all Americans (source); since trauma, war and sexual assault account for some significant percentage of this, the amount caused by drugs is much lower, and cannabis is just a fraction of that. Also, the paper (which is about cannabis-induced DP specifically) states

In general, cannabis-induced symptoms of depersonalization and derealization are time-locked to the period of intoxication, peaking approximately 30 minutes after ingestion and subsiding within 120 minutes of exposure to the drug (12, 13). However, among a subgroup of persons who use cannabis, symptoms of depersonalization or derealization persist for weeks, months, or years (3, 5), even after discontinuation of the substance (2, 11).

So, people who have severe problems tend to:
* have an existing anxiety disorder
* start use young
* even among these people, most recover within hours, and it's a subgroup of people who have more long term problems.

That's why I am against people trying certain drugs when they are in an anxious state.

Granted, that I agree with the general sentiment that people in anxious states and/or below the age of 24-25 shouldn't mess with weed. Happy to discuss this more over in one of the cannabis threads; this is not really the place and I regret the derail.

Can I ask how long you had DP/DR before and how did you get rid of it?

I'd say it bothered me for a year or two. Not sure I "got rid of it" as much as various experiences of meditation, dreams, etc convinced me that all of perceptual reality is pretty subjective and malleable, and therefore it's not worth spending energy getting distressed about the nature of my ontology; these things simply are.

 

[gorzakus]

Some wrong data here. For one thing you seem to be implying "2 to 5% of drug users go on to develop DP/DR", which is definitely not correct. 2% is about the total lifetime prevalence for depersonalization in all Americans (source); since trauma, war and sexual assault account for some significant percentage of this, the amount caused by drugs is much lower, and cannabis is just a fraction of that. Also, the paper (which is about cannabis-induced DP specifically) states


So, people who have severe problems tend to:
* have an existing anxiety disorder
* start use young
* even among these people, most recover within hours, and it's a subgroup of people who have more long term problems.

Granted, that I agree with the general sentiment that people in anxious states and/or below the age of 24-25 shouldn't mess with weed. Happy to discuss this more over in one of the cannabis threads; this is not really the place and I regret the derail.


I'd say it bothered me for a year or two. Not sure I "got rid of it" as much as various experiences of meditation, dreams, etc convinced me that all of perceptual reality is pretty subjective and malleable, and therefore it's not worth spending energy getting distressed about the nature of my ontology; these things simply are.

I don't know the exact numbers but when my friend told me to check out this forum called dpselfhelp.com with thousands of members to understand what was happening to him I was totally scared by the amount of people who got it after smoking cannabis.

When I read the stories these were all normal people living healthy lives who didn't even dare to leave their house for years afterwards and for which there is no cure.

I am not against cannabis but I just think a warning is in place, especially when in an anxious state and when you are prone to having panic attacks.

 

[linearb]

I don't know the exact numbers but when my friend told me to check out this forum called dpselfhelp.com with thousands of members to understand what was happening to him I was totally scared by the amount of people who got it after smoking cannabis.

Self-reported anecdotes aren't useful. Someone smokes weed and then at some point after falls into a DP/DR state. Correlation is not causation.

Again, overall numbers for DP/DR are very low. 2% of Americans will experience it at any point in their lifetime, so that's like 6 million people (and this includes very short term issues). Meanwhile, 55 million people in the US have used pot multiple times in the past year (and we have no reason to think that most of those 2 million cases have anything to do with pot -- quite the contrary, in fact. Severe life trauma, war, etc are generally listed higher as causative factors than drug use of any kind, and then when we get into drugs, neurotoxic or more mind-bending things are more likely to send someone off the deep end than weed).

When I read the stories these were all normal people living healthy lives who didn't even dare to leave their house for years afterwards and for which there is no cure.

This is much the same as any internet health horror story. You never know what's in people's backgrounds or histories, and you really shouldn't accept their version of their own life story, because it's just a narrative they're creating. Actual self-awareness is relatively rare; using it in a way that leads to novel data, even more so.

Basically, pot use has absolutely exploded in recent years, and yet according to CDC's own numbers and various other pot-warrior agencies, we're not actually seeing much in the way of an uptick in actual persistent psychiatric conditions; if anything we're seeing an uptick in people presenting in ERs in panic states and then being fine after someone holds their hand, gives them some Alprazolam and tells them maybe don't go eat 200mg of THC all at once next time.

I am not against cannabis but I just think a warning is in place, especially when in an anxious state and when you are prone to having panic attacks.

I think taking up marijuana of all drugs when already in a state of anxiety or having a history of panic attacks is, in general, monumentally stupid, yes.

Last gentle reminder that this is the Klonopin thread, and there's lots of discussion of weed right here -> https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/marijuana-cannabis-and-tinnitus.1993/

So, if you want to continue this discussion, why don't you bump that thread and quote me from here

 

[gorzakus]

Last gentle reminder that this is the Klonopin thread, and there's lots of discussion of weed right here -> https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/marijuana-cannabis-and-tinnitus.1993/

So, if you want to continue this discussion, why don't you bump that thread and quote me from here

Thanks but I don't need to discuss this any further and I don't want to proof anything, thanks for the detailled info.

 

[David S]

@Telis,

I have been around here for a little longer than you. I consider myself served with all the nasty ingredients.

My first journey took me well over 2 years to get my life back to sort of normal. After that I had two major setbacks and some minor (I am in one now). All were stupid mistakes.

My recipe for getting out is always the same: Escitalopram SSRI (recommend Lundbeck brand), a soft benzo like Oxascand and alcohol in a self medication combination. It is the only way for me to get in control again of my spinning mind and stress related hormones.

My "creeping out of my skin" and easier just feeling a "low level of constant torture" as well as insomnia is more related to the extreme stress than the tinnitus is self.

So far I have had zero problems to quit the medication after getting mind and body under control but I never stop my wine drinking. Half a bottle of a good French wine is my minimum daily dose and I do deserve it so much after conquering another shitty tinnitus day.

Focus on my work is also a good way to get out of the loop. Between my fuck-ups I live a good life. I could never have imagined that once tinnitus first hit me with full power...

Telis, just take day by day. Days will turn into months and years. Your sound sensitiveness will fade, the reactiveness will fade and slowly you will absorb the new sound that you are left with. You and I have been here long enough to not dream about anything close to a tinnitus free life. We just want some dignity once this shit is at its worst.

 

[Bobbette]

Oxascand

I had to google this, it's a Nordic name for the drug Oxazepam? Does it make you sleepy when you take it? Should it be taken in the morning or night and how long does the effect last?

I agree with your lovely post. Setbacks are part of the lives of veteran tinnitus sufferers, but we can conquer those. We shouldn't be too hard on our selves, everyone makes mistakes.

 

[Candy]

@David S I like the frank account of your experience.

Unfortunately my latest spike (after 2 years of an OK life) has left me with more seemingly permanent sounds that are hard to deal with. Did that ever happen to you?

I like your toolkit... I never had one as I was trying not to "catastrophise" as my therapist would say...

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

@David S I like the frank account of your experience.

Unfortunately my latest spike (after 2 years of an OK life) has left me with more seemingly permanent sounds that are hard to deal with. Did that ever happen to you?

I like your toolkit... I never had one as I was trying not to "catastrophise" as my therapist would say...

Feel free to get a tool kit. I feel they are more for bringing confidence in having methods of dealing with certain situations rather than "catastrophising".

Therapists aren't always right. Tony Soprano never took his therapist's advice anyways and he ended up much happier than her at the end of the show.

 

[linearb]

mixing benzodiazepines with alcohol is a bad idea.

alcohol is a dose-dependent carcinogen and neurotoxin at any dose. it's a much nastier drug than benzos in terms of physical damage from simple use, and they do not play well together at all.

 

[David S]

@Bobbette,

Yes it should be the same. Once life was at its hardest I took it like 3-4 times a day (10 mg). Now I just take occasionally. It does not make me too sleepy even if you do sleep better once taking them. Long term Escitalopram was the winner for me. Oxazepam makes you slow and takes away all creativity but you do need it once your body is about to stress.

 

[David S]

@Candy,

I had a lot of setbacks. My spikes always seem permanent or at least takes month to calm down. My nature is to try to fix everything. Even though I have tried all possible treatments i failed this time. I did a lot of things out of desperation. I am so fed up with my own self-pity. I am now just trying to accept things as they are. It takes a moment to understand how important and useful that could be but a lifetime to master.

 

[David S]

@linearb,

I am glad you brought this up. I also know this, but for me taking a small dose of benzos could be the difference between staying home alone or joining my family/friends for a nice dinner with good food and wine. To me it makes all the difference and and I would choose the latter every day of the week. I never had any problems mixing alcohol and benzos but I never abuse and i have no history of addiction. As we all know severe tinnitus could destroy pretty much all what we lived for. Those short moments back then where I felt living again literally saved it. It was very much a happiness based on chemicals and home cooked but so important for my small steps out of this nightmare.

 

[linearb]

I do not endorse this for anyone else; the path I walked here is a bit strange. However, the combination of Klonopin, Gabapentin and THC which I've been doing for 9 months now has been a significant game changer in my quality of life, after a decade or so of intrusive tinnitus.

 

[just1morething]

I do not endorse this for anyone else; the path I walked here is a bit strange. However, the combination of Klonopin, Gabapentin and THC which I've been doing for 9 months now has been a significant game changer in my quality of life, after a decade or so of intrusive tinnitus.

THC is only available by prescription in certain states isn't it? I know someone that used it for RA.

 

[JohnAdams]

Why isn't the standard of care to dope us all up on Xanax?

 

[Carlos1]

I do not endorse this for anyone else; the path I walked here is a bit strange. However, the combination of Klonopin, Gabapentin and THC which I've been doing for 9 months now has been a significant game changer in my quality of life, after a decade or so of intrusive tinnitus.

@linearb, I've been telling people here that the combination of Klonopin and Gabapentin has worked for me as well.

It's been 4 years now and although I still have allot of bad days... I have real good days as well. It's giving me my life back... a lot people here, as soon as you mention benzos, frown and give you lectures.

We all need to find what works for us and try to live our lives with this hell and this combo has giving me my life back.

Glad you're having success @linearb.

 

[linearb]

THC is only available by prescription in certain states isn't it? I know someone that used it for RA.

By "THC" I meant cannabis, which is strictly 100% legal for adults where I live. I believe cannabis is more effective than THC isolate, anyway.

Cannabis is very easy to get some places and extremely illegal others; it's changing, but it's dumb.

Why isn't the standard of care to dope us all up on Xanax?

Because in general people become tolerant to benzos, and the withdrawal is possibly the worst withdrawal of any known class of drugs. The fast acting benzos like Xanax are great for short term, acute use but they build tolerance even faster and are almost impossible to maintain a stable blood level on. For long term use the long-acting benzos are a less terrible option. These drugs don't actually work in any meaningful way for tinnitus for a lot of people, either. The overall QoL improvement in studies, in general, may be worse than CBT, hence, not a standard of care.

My brain chemistry is weird and I was on these drugs from a young age which may have done weird things to my wiring. Hence, "this seems to maybe be an okay thing that's helping me, but, probably it's a terrible idea and it might explode in my face".

 

[just1morething]

By "THC" I meant cannabis, which is strictly 100% legal for adults where I live. I believe cannabis is more effective than THC isolate, anyway.

Is THC isolate medical marijuana and cannabis the actual plant? A relative said they could send me some THC that they got in California to try for my tinnitus.

 

[linearb]

Is THC isolate medical marijuana and cannabis the actual plant? A relative said they could send me some THC that they got in California to try for my tinnitus.

No, THC isolate is just THC isolate, you can find it on the recreational markets, too. Cannabis as a noun generally refers to the plant itself, and "cannabis products" or whatever to all this stuff.

I think it works much better as part of the full spectrum of chemicals in the plant.

As far as extracts go, I like heat-pressed rosin more than anything else; what it lacks in concentration strength, it makes up in purity, as far as being something which is made using heat and pressure only and zero solvents or other chemical processing.

 

[CamilleCR]

I took Klonopin for muscle twitches due to stress, and it stopped the muscle twitches, but did nothing about the tinnitus.

I had to stop taking it, though, because I am among the unlucky 10% who develop a severe sinus infection from Klonopin.

As soon as I stopped, the twitches came back. They don't bother me nearly as much as the tinnitus does, though.

I do take Valium at bedtime occasionally, but it doesn't seem to help. My tinnitus, which is related to lying down and sleep, is still off the charts when I wake, Valium or no Valium, so I forego the Valium due to its addictive properties.

It doesn't even seem to make me feel calmer. :-(

 

[Rafa03]

Anyone else having success using Rivotril occasionally?
I've had T for over 12 years, I am 32 years old.
I am currently having a setback and it's being already a month with multitonal tinnitus and H.
Any feedback on this?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Anyone else having success using Rivotril occasionally?

@Rafa03
In 2010 I was prescribed Rivotril also known as clonazepam. It helped a lot by reducing the tinnitus to a very low level over 12 to 24 hours or complete silence. I was advised to only take it when the tinnitus was severe: 2x 0.5 mg tablets. This medication should not be taken too regular as dependency can set in with unpleasant side effects. Plus, it will stop being effective if taken too often at the body will get used to it, so more needs to be taken which isn't advised.

In 9 years of taken Rivotril only when the tinnitus is severe I haven't had any problems. My tinnitus naturally varies in intensity. From, complete silence, mild, moderate, severe and can reach very severe levels.

Michael