Cochlear Hair Cell Damage Simultaneously in Both Ears — Too Coincidental?

[Dirtworks]

Something just occurred to me and I would really appreciate if anyone has an explanation.

My recent elevated tinnitus volume started exactly the same day in both ears. It seems highly unlikely to me that the cochlear hair cell damage in both ears would reach that trigger point at exactly the same time.

I'm 57 and have worked in noisy environments with noisy equipment for 35 years. I noticed the high frequency static and hearing loss a couple of years ago.
I have hearing loss of 30-40 dB at mid to high frequencies in both ears.

Assuming the cause of tinnitus is damage to cochlear hair cells, it seems awfully coincidental to me both sides would suddenly increase in volume on the same day. There was no particular ear trauma event.

Just seems too coincidental and highly unlikely. Am I missing something here? Can someone please explain this to me?

 

[ajc]

Assuming the cause of tinnitus is damage to cochlear hair cells, it seems awfully coincidental to me both sides would suddenly increase in volume on the same day. There was no particular ear trauma event.

This is a good question....

Why most of the time tinnitus increases affect both ears? Is it because tinnitus is a brain thing?

 

[FGG]

Something just occurred to me and I would really appreciate if anyone has an explanation.

My recent elevated tinnitus volume started exactly the same day in both ears. It seems highly unlikely to me that the cochlear hair cell damage in both ears would reach that trigger point at exactly the same time.

I'm 57 and have worked in noisy environments with noisy equipment for 35 years. I noticed the high frequency static and hearing loss a couple of years ago.
I have hearing loss of 30-40 dB at mid to high frequencies in both ears.

Assuming the cause of tinnitus is damage to cochlear hair cells, it seems awfully coincidental to me both sides would suddenly increase in volume on the same day. There was no particular ear trauma event.

Just seems too coincidental and highly unlikely. Am I missing something here? Can someone please explain this to me?

I have exactly the same audiogram on both sides but i was told this is common with my cause (antibiotic ototoxicity) because each ear essentially gets the same dose.

Were you taking any medication when this happened? Heart meds? NSAIDs? Etc.

 

[AliasM]

I have exactly the same audiogram on both sides but i was told this is common with my cause (antibiotic ototoxicity) because each ear essentially gets the same dose.

Were you taking any medication when this happened? Heart meds? NSAIDs? Etc.

FGG, which antibiotic were you on? I took 2 courses of Amoxicillin which ended 5 days before the tinnitus started.

OP, I have tinnitus in both ears and my hearing is normal. Tinnitus is in my brain, not my ears. Sometimes it doesn't come out of my ears at all. If I bock them they are silent when the back of my head is hissing or ringing. If the sides or top of my head is going off, I can hear it from my ears.

 

[FGG]

FGG, which antibiotic were you on? I took 2 courses of Amoxicillin which ended 5 days before the tinnitus started.

OP, I have tinnitus in both ears and my hearing is normal. Tinnitus is in my brain, not my ears. Sometimes it doesn't come out of my ears at all. If I bock them they are silent when the back of my head is hissing or ringing. If the sides or top of my head is going off, I can hear it from my ears.

Azithromycin. The antibiotic you took, Amoxicillin, is reportedly among the safest antibiotics for tinnitus.

Tinnitus is a reaction to reduced auditory input. So your brain makes that sound (like Phantom Limb but for hearing). I don't think most people perceive it as coming from their ears even if it's from cochlear damage.

That being said, if you don't have a diagnosis, get a better work up. Everything from iron deficiency, Eustachian tube dysfunction, sinus/allergy issues, TMJ etc can cause tinnitus. Not just inner ear issues. Really anything that interferes with normal auditory function.

Sometimes people have better luck with an Otologist than an ENT as well if they don't get answers from their ENT.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

My hearing loss.
(A) Audiogram illustrating a bilateral conductive hearing loss, which... | Download Scientific Diagram (researchgate.net)

 

[Dirtworks]

I had been taking a regular strength Ibuprofen every morning for probably 6 months to help with some back pain. I wasn't taking it when I first noticed my tinnitus about 4 years ago and had stopped taking it for a couple of months before the tinnitus volume increase.

I have been taking medication for asthma all of my life including Prednisone as a child.

So this may be bad news for me. The volume increase I've been hoping was ETD because of the mild headaches and fullness sensation I was getting in my ears. My ears would often feel muffled and this all started at the same time as the tinnitus volume increase.

I was hoping I would be able to eventually clear any fluid in the middle ears.

Now I'll have to pin my hopes on FX-322. If cause is ototoxic, then we are talking cochlear hair cell damage, correct?

 

[Dirtworks]

@Greg Sacramento, so when I see the ENT in two months they should be able to determine where in my ear the hearing loss occurs? Are they also then able to determine the most likely cause? Would this then also be the likely cause of the tinnitus?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Dirtworks With use of power tools- was it one day use or over a longer period - month to years?

For a slope - following audiogram
A bone conduction oscillator placed on the mastoid process or forehead. This method evaluates hearing sensitivity of the inner ear and auditory nervous system (or sensorineural system) only, bypassing the outer and middle ear systems. Comparison of air and bone conduction thresholds determines the type of HL sensorineural vs. conductive.

 

[Dirtworks]

@Greg Sacramento, thanks Greg, Now at 57, I've used lots of loud power tools for over 40 years. I've worked in a paper mill (very loud) and a semi conductor test facility with lots of loud fans. I thought I was always very good at wearing hearing protection. I've also done years of carpentry, mechanic, and chainsaw work in the bush. All using loud tools not always wearing protection I'm afraid.

Guess I'm really paying for it now. My 96 year old mother is extremely deaf and my dad, hard of hearing in his later also suffered from tinnitus but had an office job.

 

[FGG]

I had been taking a regular strength Ibuprofen every morning for probably 6 months to help with some back pain. I wasn't taking it when I first noticed my tinnitus about 4 years ago and had stopped taking it for a couple of months before the tinnitus volume increase.

I have been taking medication for asthma all of my life including Prednisone as a child.

So this may be bad news for me. The volume increase I've been hoping was ETD because of the mild headaches and fullness sensation I was getting in my ears. My ears would often feel muffled and this all started at the same time as the tinnitus volume increase.

I was hoping I would be able to eventually clear any fluid in the middle ears.

Now I'll have to pin my hopes on FX-322. If cause is ototoxic, then we are talking cochlear hair cell damage, correct?

It's really hard to say what your cause for the volume increase was for sure given this history. Headaches don't usually accompany ototoxic hair cell loss to my knowledge (fullness can, though).

Either way, if you had say hair cell loss and ETD, treating ETD as a co-factor could make a difference in volume.

 

[Dirtworks]

Starting to really doubt mine is ETD.

Having two teenage daughters can be pretty stressful and create a lot anxiety. Might be stress headaches. It's a tough nut to crack that is for sure. But the fact that both ears have same tinnitus volume and frequency should tell me something...

 

[twa]

It's really hard to say what your cause for the volume increase was for sure given this history. Headaches don't usually accompany ototoxic hair cell loss to my knowledge (fullness can, though).

Either way, if you had say hair cell loss and ETD, treating ETD as a co-factor could make a difference in volume.

Are headaches usually connected to acoustic trauma?

twa

 

[FGG]

Are headaches usually connected to acoustic trauma?

twa

Not that I'm aware of.

They are linked to muscle tightness from clinching, TMJ, sinus issues and inner ear muscle issues though.

 

[Dirtworks]

The headaches were very mild not like the terrible pounders I use to get after an asthma attack as a kid. But I haven't had any kind of headache for 35 years unless a had too much red wine. The headaches that accompanied the loud Tinnitus felt like I had a tight belt around my head sometimes. Kind of a fullness feeling in my head and ears. That's why I figured it was ETD.

I really appreciate the insight from other tinnitus sufferers. ETD appointment in April and with 6 months wait I want to go armed with as much information as possible. Extremely long wait times to see a specialist in Canada due to COVID-19. Some I'm told are 2 years.

I had a 3-4 days in a row last week where it settled down which gave me whole lot of hope. I don't think I did anything different only to have it jump back up again but without the headache or fullness sensation.

 

[Lukee]

The headaches were very mild not like the terrible pounders I use to get after an asthma attack as a kid. But I haven't had any kind of headache for 35 years unless a had too much red wine. The headaches that accompanied the loud Tinnitus felt like I had a tight belt around my head sometimes. Kind of a fullness feeling in my head and ears. That's why I figured it was ETD.

I really appreciate the insight from other tinnitus sufferers. ETD appointment in April and with 6 months wait I want to go armed with as much information as possible. Extremely long wait times to see a specialist in Canada due to COVID-19. Some I'm told are 2 years.

I had a 3-4 days in a row last week where it settled down which gave me whole lot of hope. I don't think I did anything different only to have it jump back up again but without the headache or fullness sensation.

Hey @Dirtworks, I have almost the exact same symptoms as you but the difference is I know what caused it for me. There is a group of us that have gotten tinnitus and ETD like symptoms by doing the Wim Hof breathing technique.

Unfortunately, something that was supposed to make us 'healthier' backfired and has cursed us.

I got my tinnitus around middle of January and btw I'm a fellow Ontarian so I know all about waiting for ENT appointment. I was able to get into see one through a favor but nothing really came out of it. My Eustachian tubes were clear and everything seemed to be functioning the way it should. My symptoms started like this, first ringing/hissing for about 4-5 days, very mild but got progressively louder then onset of ear pressure and fullness. Occasionally an ache would come and go. Eventually, the ear pressure started to get a little better but I started to get more head pressure and mild headaches. Only one day were they truly debilitating otherwise they like a mild flu headache, you just feel like crap. I also have the occasional ear ache going along with the headache and I find that certain parts of my head are sensitive to touch. Sometimes my temples sometimes the top of my head, it seems to move around but predominantly my temples.

Coincidentally I had an MRI during this time of neck and brain for a bunch of herniated disks but everything came back normal from a headache perspective. The other guys on the thread about Wim Hof don't seem to have the headaches but have gone through the fullness part and seem to be recovering well. I'm wondering if I have done the Valsalva too many times and perhaps it's causing the headaches. I never force it but I do try and hold it gently or try a few times until it pops.

I am thinking of trying your / @engineerLA saline trick as I feel like something going on in my Eustachian tubes or middle ear but I don't want to potentially worsen the situation. Do you now have full remission of the fullness, ear pain and headaches?? Looking forward to hearing back from you.

 

[Dirtworks]

I don't want to encourage it but yes the fullness sensation is gone. I requested some input regarding risk from any experts on this forum but haven't heard much.

From my research it's important to boil the water for 3 minutes and use the right type of salt when using a Neti Pot. Probably even more important if your going to force the solution (cooled to body temp) into your middle ear through the Eustachian tubes. Do so very slowly and gently.

Must tell you I still have high frequency static tinnitus in both ears
(at least it sounds like both ears) but it's not as loud. Yes, fullness and mild headache has not come back. I only did it twice.

Best of luck Lukee from Ontario. Cheers bud! Please keep me posted.

 

[Dirtworks]

Just had a thought. Might be wise to do a regular Neti Pot routine (both nostrils) just to make sure your sinuses are clean and flushed. You don't want to push anything bad into your middle ear. Maybe ask your ENT if it's dangerous. I'll ask mine at my appointment in April. Guessing she will not advise. I don't think doctors will advise anything that is not FDA approved and for good reason.

 

[glynis]

@Dirtworks,

Ibuprofen could be the cause of your tinnitus... It can definitely cause it.

love Glynis

 

[Dirtworks]

@glynis, thanks, yes, I know now that Ibuprofen can cause tinnitus and I assume a tinnitus spike as well. I was taking just one in the morning. I already had tinnitus when I started on the Ibuprofen and I had stopped long before the spike. It's possible I suppose but with my 40 dB mid-high frequency hearing loss, my genetics and my exposure to loud equipment I just don't think it's the main factor. Staying away from the Ibuprofen just in case .

My tinnitus spiked just a few days after threat of COVID-19 helped drive me to quit smoking, drinking coffee (4-6 cups a day) and some anti anxiety med I had been taking for a year. I found out later that I should have reduced the anxiety med slowly .
But I've had the 40 dB hearing loss for 3 years as well as mild tinnitus.

I wasn't bothered by it much when it was mild or may have habituated at the same rate it started. I really hardly noticed I had it. Asking everyone in house to repeat everything is what started bothering me (and them) first.

 

[Lukee]

I don't want to encourage it but yes the fullness sensation is gone. I requested some input regarding risk from any experts on this forum but haven't heard much.

From my research it's important to boil the water for 3 minutes and use the right type of salt when using a Neti Pot. Probably even more important if your going to force the solution (cooled to body temp) into your middle ear through the Eustachian tubes. Do so very slowly and gently.

Must tell you I still have high frequency static tinnitus in both ears
(at least it sounds like both ears) but it's not as loud. Yes, fullness and mild headache has not come back. I only did it twice.

Best of luck Lukee from Ontario. Cheers bud! Please keep me posted.

Thanks for this run down. I haven't used a Neti Pot in a while because it always seems that the water gets stuck in my sinus and will sometimes drain up to several hours later. No matter how I position my head and blow for it to all come out, it seems like some part of my sinus anatomy is messed up and retains the liquid. Either way I will give it a try.

These headaches are strange. They started as being more pressure like an elastic band stretched around my head but more recently it's almost like the headaches emanate from my ears and back quarter of my head. My temples are relatively sensitive to a firm touch but recently that has been getting better too.

It's strange that no one really talks about the fullness and headaches that come with tinnitus too often. I feel like there is something physical going on and it's certainly not just a sensation like some articles or doctors claim. I don't think it's ETD particularly but something is definitely going on with the middle ear.

I will try the Neti Pot and report back. Hopefully the fullness and headaches will leave me once and for all.

BTW, good luck at the ENT but I would wager everything comes back 'normal'. Seems like they don't really want to get involved with tinnitus and/or inner ear issues especially when the physical tests and exams come back unremarkable.

Another quick note. I have the same bilateral tinnitus. Super high pitched that is centralized though sometimes I feel like it's more from my left ear but it has moved to my right ear as well. For the most part it's central and more hissing and really high pitched (15 kHz) than anything else.

 

[Dirtworks]

I have described my past mild headaches exactly the same way. Felt like a big elastic band around my head. That is also how stress headaches are described and I was under stress as well. 57 and looking at a career change. Mid life crisis I guess.

ENT left me message this evening "would like to do video conference call". I called back and left message "tinnitus driving me crazy for six months to the point I've considered suicide. Don't think you understand."

Canada's health care?? Seemed to be great until COVID-19 hit. I've since heard a few horror stories. Just seems like tinnitus isn't taken seriously. Once again, pretty difficult to remain positive but I'm trying.

Wishing everyone the best and a return to normal.

 

[Dirtworks]

@Lukee, I'd have to agree on the fullness, headache thing. I still can't explain it. As a life long allergy/asthmatic I shouldn't be surprised if it was some sort of inflammatory reaction but it just isn't a symptom I've experienced before. My asthma and allergies I have pretty much grown out of.

As a child I couldn't drive through the countryside for an hour without my eyes completely swelling shut.

Lots of credit to advances in medications for sure!

God bless the scientists .

 

[Lukee]

I have described my past mild headaches exactly the same way. Felt like a big elastic band around my head. That is also how stress headaches are described and I was under stress as well. 57 and looking at a career change. Mid life crisis I guess.

ENT left me message this evening "would like to do video conference call". I called back and left message "tinnitus driving me crazy for six months to the point I've considered suicide. Don't think you understand."

Canada's health care?? Seemed to be great until COVID-19 hit. I've since heard a few horror stories. Just seems like tinnitus isn't taken seriously. Once again, pretty difficult to remain positive but I'm trying.

Wishing everyone the best and a return to normal.

I spoke to two ENTs like this. Literally a phone call that lasted 5 minutes. COVID-19 has pushed all the doctors into hiding and now they will remain there since they can bill for phone calls just the same way as in-office visits. It's very sad that so many ENTs just brush off tinnitus and related symptoms. They have no compassion and don't even try to help their patient. In my case, both ENTs said ya take some nasal spray and wait it out, go for a hearing test and that's it. One of the doctors told me he was retiring in a few weeks so it was useless talking to him because he wouldn't be around by the time I got my hearing test done. Wow. What a truly messed up medical system we have.

I hope you're doing better. Seems at least like you got the pressure and headaches resolved so that's a big improvement.

 

[Lukee]

@Dirtworks, one more question, Mike. After you forced the saline into the ETs did you have a mild earache? How long did it last?

I tried it last night with a very small amount and I still have a very mild ear ache but the pressure hasn't really come up yet and headaches not so much yet. More than anything I'm anxious about the ear ache and my ear does feel a little gluey and has been popping over night.

 

[Dirtworks]

@Lukee, yes, I did have a mild ear ache on both sides afterwards but it wasn't bad and might have lasted 2 hours maximum but I went to bed, fell asleep and ears felt fine in the morning. I figure it was the salt in the solution with the middle ear being so sensitive. I went for a walk/run in the cold wind just a couple days ago without a hat and had the very same ache in one ear. It lasted several hours.

The fullness feeling in my ears and head, the mild headaches and periodic thick mucous drip down the back of my throat (while lying on my back at night) had me suspecting ETD. I haven't heard much crackling and no other strange noises I've read others mention which makes me a little suspect. I could certainly imagine excess fluid in the middle ear making some strange noises just as pushing the saline solution in there did.

I spoke to my ENT receptionist yesterday. She is working from home and told me all initial appointments now are by phone. What you stated was exactly what I was thinking. Lots of fantastic doctors but there are some callous ones too.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm just realizing that I definitely have hyperacusis. I have been suspect since shortly after the tinnitus spike a few months back and have been trying to avoid loud noises. Dishes in the kitchen smashing together, things dropping into the kitchen sink are bad but the Smoothie processor should come with ear protection.. At least I now have a good excuse for not emptying the dishwasher.

How are your ears feeling now? I hope the ache has subsided. Did it help in any way?

 

[Lukee]

@Lukee, yes, I did have a mild ear ache on both sides afterwards but it wasn't bad and might have lasted 2 hours maximum but I went to bed, fell asleep and ears felt fine in the morning. I figure it was the salt in the solution with the middle ear being so sensitive. I went for a walk/run in the cold wind just a couple days ago without a hat and had the very same ache in one ear. It lasted several hours.

The fullness feeling in my ears and head, the mild headaches and periodic thick mucous drip down the back of my throat (while lying on my back at night) had me suspecting ETD. I haven't heard much crackling and no other strange noises I've read others mention which makes me a little suspect. I could certainly imagine excess fluid in the middle ear making some strange noises just as pushing the saline solution in there did.

I spoke to my ENT receptionist yesterday. She is working from home and told me all initial appointments now are by phone. What you stated was exactly what I was thinking. Lots of fantastic doctors but there are some callous ones too.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm just realizing that I definitely have hyperacusis. I have been suspect since shortly after the tinnitus spike a few months back and have been trying to avoid loud noises. Dishes in the kitchen smashing together, things dropping into the kitchen sink are bad but the Smoothie processor should come with ear protection.. At least I now have a good excuse for not emptying the dishwasher.

How are your ears feeling now? I hope the ache has subsided. Did it help in any way?

Unfortunately not much better. I woke up with very mild ear ache and it's mostly gone now but the pressure is more bothersome than it's been over the last couple weeks. I hope it will go away over the next couple days. My ear was still gluey this morning more than it has been in the past so I'm a little anxious overall but keeping my hopes up that it resolves.

 

[Dirtworks]

I fully understand the anxiousness @Lukee. I have been there. I think it's good sign that it feels like it's due to pressure in the inner ear. That to me it is something that can be resolved.

You've probably read and most are in agreement that stress and anxiety makes tinnitus worse. Not much debate there. You need to try and stay as relaxed as possible and do whatever you need to do to relax.

Think about all the nice weather forecast for Ontario. Weekend looks great. Ontario is finally getting vaccine and has a vaccine schedule.

I'm not quite clear on what you mean by gluey? But it sounds promising to me that your problem isn't long term. I hope tomorrow is better.

 

[Lukee]

I fully understand the anxiousness @Lukee. I have been there. I think it's good sign that it feels like it's due to pressure in the inner ear. That to me it is something that can be resolved.

You've probably read and most are in agreement that stress and anxiety makes tinnitus worse. Not much debate there. You need to try and stay as relaxed as possible and do whatever you need to do to relax.

Think about all the nice weather forecast for Ontario. Weekend looks great. Ontario is finally getting vaccine and has a vaccine schedule.

I'm not quite clear on what you mean by gluey? But it sounds promising to me that your problem isn't long term. I hope tomorrow is better.

I really appreciate the encouraging words. Certainly looking forward to the weather; I went for a nice walk tonight without having to wear 5 layers.

Gluey/sticky is the feeling I get especially when swallowing. It feels like my ET/middle ear have something sticky in them. I think it's literally called glue ear lol. Definitely feeling a bit better tonight than the morning so I hope tomorrow will be better still. Hope you are getting better as well.

 

[Dirtworks]

Gluey/sticky is the feeling I get especially when swallowing. It feels like my ET/middle ear have something sticky in them. I think it's literally called glue ear lol. Definitely feeling a bit better tonight than the morning so I hope tomorrow will be better still. Hope you are getting better as well.

I've never had glue ear. Have you tried the ear message/exercises for ETD on YouTube? Many also say to try Sudafed and to drink lots of water.

I tried all that stuff as well as other over the counter sinus stuff. Even tried standing on my head which never made a whole lot of sense to me.

Glad you are feeling better.