Concert Doubts

[Tiago Filipe]

Hey, I'm Tiago and I'm from Portugal and I have some doubts.
There are many musicians who have tinnitus, and with some ear protection, they perform almost every week.
I'm a big music fan, and Sting is going to perform here in Portugal, I want to know, if musicians can perform with tinnitus close to the sound generator, why couldn't I go (protected, of course) to a show with normal ear plugs?

 

[maltese]

Hey, I'm Tiago and I'm from Portugal and I have some doubts.
There are many musicians who have tinnitus, and with some ear protection, they perform almost every week.
I'm a big music fan, and Sting is going to perform here in Portugal, I want to know, if musicians can perform with tinnitus close to the sound generator, why couldn't I go (protected, of course) to a show with normal ear plugs?

Is your tinnitus noise induced (From loud music)?

 

[GregCA]

I'm a big music fan, and Sting is going to perform here in Portugal, I want to know, if musicians can perform with tinnitus close to the sound generator, why couldn't I go (protected, of course) to a show with normal ear plugs?

Because they don't typically stand where the audience stands. The speakers you will be dealing with are sending sound to the audience. They are meant to send massive amounts of sound to cover what is generally a large area.

The musicians are on stage, and they typically have stage monitors (small speakers directed towards the stage), although more and more musicians use In-Ear-Monitors nowadays, which do two things: they cut down on the outside noise (like your ear plugs would) and they play the sound of the band so they can hear the band play with little distortion.

In short: the musicians are not exposed to the same sound as the audience.

 

[Rubenslash]

Is your tinnitus noise induced (From loud music)?

Why does that matter? I think noise can make it worse whatever the cause is. Mine was med induced and got worse after noise exposure

 

[Foncky]

There are many musicians who have tinnitus, and with some ear protection, they perform almost every week.

You don't get to see them struggling with their hearing backstage... And yet they don't care about your hearing. What is fine for them on stage might very well be too loud for you.

 

[Michael Leigh]

tinnitus close to the sound generator, why couldn't I go (protected, of course) to a show with normal ear plugs?

You still need to be careful of loud sounds even when wearing earplugs as they are no guarantee that you will be one hundred percent safe. If external sound is loud enough it can pass through the mastoid bone. This is the hard piece of bone behind each ear. It is honeycombed and has air pockets. Sound can pass through this and enter the inner ear and could irritate the cochlea, so be careful.
Michael

 

[JurgenG]

If you do go stand away from the speakers use CUSTOM MADE earplugs with -30 dB or something. And take some magnisium and NAC, just in case.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Why does that matter? I think noise can make it worse whatever the cause is. Mine was med induced and got worse after noise exposure

@maltese has a point @Rubenslash When tinnitus is caused by loud noise, often a person has to be careful of further exposure to loud sounds. I believe this is because the cochlea has been affected or the ear-hairs that are attached to it. The same doesn't necessarily apply to people who's tinnitus was caused by something else. The auditory system is quite complex and tinnitus can be caused by Meniers for example or an acoustic neuroma, which is a benign tumor on the Audiory nerve.
Michael

 

[Tom Cnyc]

it's said that bone conducted sound is attenuated by on average 40 decibels. dont worry about that unless you're standing directly in front of a stack of speakers.

tons of musicians have tinnitus and go on. you'll PROBABLY be fine. that said - it's a risk.

It's worth pointing out that stage volume is typically significantly HIGHER than what most of the audience (save for the front rows) is expsoed to. yeah - you can turn down - but you still have to be louder than the drums - which are easily over 100db, 120 if you're close to them.

Sting himself has tinnitus. At the end of the day it's about what you think is a worthwhile risk.

 

[Tiago Filipe]

Is your tinnitus noise induced (From loud music)?

Yes, it was , till now, the last music concert that I attended

 

[Tiago Filipe]

Because they don't typically stand where the audience stands. The speakers you will be dealing with are sending sound to the audience. They are meant to send massive amounts of sound to cover what is generally a large area.

In short: the musicians are not exposed to the same sound as the audience.

Oh thanks alot for the information.
Do you think if i saty in the back, or in the VIP station,, i should not worry about it?(while using ear plugs, of course)

 

[Tiago Filipe]

it's said that bone conducted sound is attenuated by on average 40 decibels. dont worry about that unless you're standing directly in front of a stack of speakers.

tons of musicians have tinnitus and go on. you'll PROBABLY be fine. that said - it's a risk.

It's worth pointing out that stage volume is typically significantly HIGHER than what most of the audience (save for the front rows) is expsoed to. yeah - you can turn down - but you still have to be louder than the drums - which are easily over 100db, 120 if you're close to them.

Sting himself has tinnitus. At the end of the day it's about what you think is a worthwhile risk.

From what I read,
I think the best way to do this, is to go far enoguh(maybe in the vip section, far from the loud speakers and the immense crowd) , only attend sting's concert and use strong earplugs

 

[Tiago Filipe]

If you do go stand away from the speakers use CUSTOM MADE earplugs with -30 dB or something. And take some magnisium and NAC, just in case.

Where do you buy them?
Are those your favourite kind of ear plugs?

 

[JurgenG]

Custom made earplugs are obtainable in hearing shops or check Variphone.
The basic supplements are available in pharmacies.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Customs are purchased at audiologist

 

[MandoChuck]

Be sure you compare the various earplugs available, and try them out before the concert. They vary a lot in how much sound they attenuate. Not sure how things are done in Portugal, but in the U.S. at least, they have a decibel rating from OSHA printed on the package, which is a good start, but I've noticed a significant difference between plugs that have the same rating, so I always experiment. Also make sure you put them in correctly, as that makes a big difference as well.

To test, put them in and wait for them to expand. Then clap your hands softly at first and then gradually louder (don't go too loud too fast otherwise you can accidentally get too loud for yourself). Then once you're satisfied they're blocking enough, turn on your Hi Fi and see what music sounds like. Most people think music sounds terrible through earplugs when they first try, but I've found it's easier to get used to and still enjoy music then I expected.

There are choices there, of course: Most of the "musician" labelled plugs are not designed for maximum attenuation -- they're designed for a smooth response curve. And you can get custom moulded and fitted ones that sound really good. They're great (and worth the extra money) if you're not looking for the maximum protection and want good sounding music. I use them in moderate settings. For loud concerts I usually go with the foam ones I just get from CVS or Walgreens -- in my experience they block out the most.

Different earplugs also have a huge difference in what they do to your own voice. If you're at a concert and try to talk to your friend (or if you're the musician and try to sing), all earplugs will make your own voice seem louder, of course, but some way more so than others. In my experience, the rubbery or moulded ones seem to reflect my own voice too much for my comfort. The softer foam ones much less. Again, experiment.

Ultimately, you're limited in how much you can block out by the amount of sound that comes through your skull. As Tom CNYC commented above, that puts a maximum effectiveness limit on earplugs at about 40dB (in practice, they say earplugs can't really attenuate more than 32 dB or so across all frequencies). Unless you're particularly prone to damage, and are at a REALLY loud concert, you should be fine. But since this is new for you, you might try staying as far away from the loudspeakers as you can, and for the first time at least, only stay there for a little while. See how your ears react the next week or so, and based on how they are, go from there.

For me, it's important to make sure I protect what hearing I have left, but I still want to get out there and enjoy it while it's there. Everyone needs to find their own sweet spot.

Good luck!

 

[Gosia]

There is NO reliable protection from the noise at the concert of that kind. Remember that earplugs that say 30 db reduction in reality diminish the sound by a few db only ( there are some threads on the forum about it . ) Secondly, know that you cannot protect from the bass sound ( bone conduction ) . Of course you can go, but you put yourself at risk of worsening your condition. Only you can decide because it's you who will have to live with the consequences if that happens . There must be a hundred of concert - threads on this forum. I adivce you to read them.

 

[Amber]

You can go but there is a risk! Who will you blame for the rest of your life if you get worse?

 

[Ed209]

There is NO reliable protection from the noise at the concert of that kind. Remember that earplugs that say 30 db reduction in reality diminish the sound by a few db only ( there are some threads on the forum about it . ) Secondly, know that you cannot protect from the bass sound ( bone conduction ) . Of course you can go, but you put yourself at risk of worsening your condition. Only you can decide because it's you who will have to live with the consequences if that happens . There must be a hundred of concert - threads on this forum. I adivce you to read them.

Gosia, this is not true at all. Custom plugs provide the full specification listed for each frequency, and secondly the threads you're referring to relate to incorrectly inserted plugs.

Those sites give an approximate calculation to reduce the protection numbers based on the ear canal not being sealed properly. This also includes the probability of people taking the plugs out during the event. Essentially, it's all a load of nonsense if you intend to protect your ears properly.

If the plugs being used are up to the correct ISO or ANSI standards, and are used correctly, then they will reduce sound as stated. In fact, they usually err on the side of caution and list the lower mean attenuation numbers.

This doesn't mean you can just stand next to speakers like your ears are invincible. You have to use some common sense and be wary of how loud things are getting. If you're sensible, a sting concert in my opinion should be fine. I know we have to be careful with our ears, but I'm a strong believer that most of us are ok to go out once in a while. Just don't do anything stupid and if it does get too loud, then leave. Simple as, job done

If the thought of going is freaking you out, then it's probably best you don't go. You'll just end up giving yourself a spike purely from the stress you'll put on yourself, and then you've got to ask yourself why you're there if you're not enjoying it?

 

[Ed209]

I'll also add that I've seen quite a few bands since my T got worse. Nowadays I'm super cautious about my ears and wear the best earplugs money can buy.

The truth is that there are millions of people who go to concerts with tinnitus, including the actual bands. Rightly or wrongly, a lot of these people still don't wear any ear plugs at all - which I find remarkable - but that's humans for you.

When it comes to concerts it's down to the value it has on your life. I'm a musician, so you're never going to stop me, but I do limit myself and I'm extremely careful. I've been to quite a few gigs now armed up with my plugs and in my case it's helped. I've never had a hint of trouble thus far, and in fact, it helped me habituate. Most of my problem was the fear of it getting worse, and as soon as I stepped out of that shadow back to some kind of normality, I made a monumental stride forward.

This is my story, and I'm now fully habituated. Tinnitus does absolutely nothing to me anymore and controls none of my decisions. I'm writing this to represent a different point of view, but it is always at your own risk what you do with your own ears. My life was improved significantly, but to others it probably makes little difference. If you're in the little difference category then outright avoidance is foolproof and easy, so in these instances, this is what I'd advise.

 

[Zorro!]

I went to a spate of David Bowie tribute concerts last Fall, used basic foam ear plugs that I bought at a corner store and I was fine. -- And these concerts were loud, but the cheap foam plugs worked great and I had no problems afterwards.

I know this is a subjective experience and everyone is different blah blah blah. That said, I think excessive worrying is detrimental to the experience. Fortunately I have gotten over the worry stage of tinnitus and am back to living my life as fully as I can. So with that in mind I went to the concerts expecting to have fun and that's exactly what happened, I had fun. And not a single one of my friends commented on the fact that I had neon-yellow plugs jammed into my ears during the shows (and at the noisy pub afterwards). Quite frankly no one gave a shit. We all had a good time. That's what it's about.

Should you go to this, or any, loud concert? That's a decision only you can make, folks. But if you decide to go take the necessary precautions and then enjoy yourself.

 

[Sebastians]

Sorry to say, but... Sting

 

[Ed209]

I went to a spate of David Bowie tribute concerts last Fall, used basic foam ear plugs that I bought at a corner store and I was fine. -- And these concerts were loud, but the cheap foam plugs worked great and I had no problems afterwards.
I know this is a subjective experience and everyone is different blah blah blah. That said, I think excessive worrying is detrimental to the experience. Fortunately I have gotten over the worry stage of tinnitus and am back to living my life as fully as I can. So with that in mind I went to the concerts expecting to have fun and that's exactly what happened, I had fun. And not a single one of my friends commented on the fact that I had neon-yellow plugs jammed into my ears during the shows (and at the noisy pub afterwards). Quite frankly no one gave a shit. We all had a good time. That's what it's about.

Should you go to this, or any, loud concert? That's a decision only you can make, folks. But if you decide to go take the necessary precautions and then enjoy yourself.

Same Zorro, no one cares about ear plugs and to be honest I wouldn't care if they did. I'd happily wear massive ear muffs if I had to because I honestly wouldn't give a f**k, lol.

I'm not going to live a sheltered life and that's all there is to it. I'm aware that's my choice and I'm not telling you all to go out and watch a load of concerts. You've just gotta do what makes you happy! And be careful if it does involve things getting a bit loud. We are the enlightened ones, so protect your ears!

It's true that low end bass can get through, but bass is also the least damaging frequency. Some of these waves are so wide that they just pass right through us. The higher shrill frequencies are by far the most dangerous. The shortness of their waveform means the hairs vibrate more intensely, and this is why most earplugs ramp up the protection above 30db in the higher frequencies.

I'll add a disclaimer here before I get abuse for this: any frequency can be damaging! I just wanted to highlight that bass is the least dangerous, that's all.

 

[grotulon]

Same Zorro, no one cares about ear plugs and to be honest I wouldn't care if they did. I'd happily wear massive ear muffs if I had to because I honestly wouldn't give a f**k, lol.

I'm not going to live a sheltered life and that's all there is to it. I'm aware that's my choice and I'm not telling you all to go out and watch a load of concerts. You've just gotta do what makes you happy! And be careful if it does involve things getting a bit loud. We are the enlightened ones, so protect your ears!

It's true that low end bass can get through, but bass is also the least damaging frequency. Some of these waves are so wide that they just pass right through us. The higher shrill frequencies are by far the most dangerous. The shortness of their waveform means the hairs vibrate more intensely, and this is why most earplugs ramp up the protection above 30db in the higher frequencies.

I'll add a disclaimer here before I get abuse for this: any frequency can be damaging! I just wanted to highlight that bass is the least dangerous, that's all.

For now I think I will not be attending anything loud, as mine lessens every day, so I think in my case it's good to be a bit paranoid, especially with the chances of it going away, since it's so new and seems to be lessening. Though I think if it's here for good, and since its already low I can't risk something like concerts, a shame but.. i'll live!

 

[Zorro!]

I'll add a disclaimer here before I get abuse for this: any frequency can be damaging! I just wanted to highlight that bass is the least dangerous, that's all.

 

[Ed209]

For now I think I will not be attending anything loud, as mine lessens every day, so I think in my case it's good to be a bit paranoid, especially with the chances of it going away, since it's so new and seems to be lessening. Though I think if it's here for good, and since its already low I can't risk something like concerts, a shame but.. i'll live!

If I'd just acquired tinnitus, or it'd recently got worse, then there's no way I'd go to a concert, bar or anything until I'd at least given my ears a rest and had given myself enough time to mentally adjust.

I'm not that mad. I wouldn't recommend going if it's a recent thing. Your ears need time to rest and you can't underestimate the psychological impact. Even if you end up in a safe environment, the stress your overactive mind can put you through makes it pointless. I used to freak out at every knock and bang, but now I'm in a better place mentally (tinnitus wise), I'm a different person. The whole phobia and freaking out thing has gone for me now.

 

[grotulon]

If I'd just acquired tinnitus, or it'd recently got worse, then there's no way I'd go to a concert, bar or anything until I'd at least given my ears a rest and had given myself enough time to mentally adjust.

I'm not that mad. I wouldn't recommend going if it's a recent thing. Your ears need time to rest and you can't underestimate the psychological impact. Even if you end up in a safe environment, the stress your overactive mind can put you through makes it pointless. I used to freak out at every knock and bang, but now I'm in a better place mentally (tinnitus wise), I'm a different person. The whole phobia and freaking out thing has gone for me now.

The only thing that freaks me out is fleeting tinnitus, I am always afraid that THAT is the new tone, that makes my damn stomach drop lol

 

[Ed209]

The only thing that freaks me out is fleeting tinnitus, I am always afraid that THAT is the new tone, that makes my damn stomach drop lol

I get fleeting tinnitus all the time as well. All the noises in my head right now are meaningless to me and invoke no emotional response at all. Accept that you've got tinnitus and things will start to improve. The hard part however is accepting it. It's extremely hard, but very enlightening once you do. Everything starts to change from your perception of it to your fears of sound.

Once I started accepting it I literally felt like Neo fighting agent Smith at the end of the Matrix. Obviously me bring Neo and agent Smith being tinnitus; it really felt like one of those lightbulb moments where everything started to feel different

 

[grotulon]

I get fleeting tinnitus all the time as well. All the noises in my head right now are meaningless to me and invoke no emotional response at all. Accept that you've got tinnitus and things will start to improve. The hard part however is accepting it. It's extremely hard, but very enlightening once you do. Everything starts to change from your perception of it to your fears of sound.

Once I started accepting it I literally felt like Neo fighting agent Smith at the end of the Matrix. Obviously me bring Neo and agent Smith being tinnitus; it really felt like one of those lightbulb moments where everything started to feel different

I do have a question, since mine is relatively new, can I go to bars that are 75 DB? I am curious if (Mine is still unknown) you have hearing damage, does your tolerance lessen? IE 80 DB is what causes slight damage, would it then turn to 60 or 70 for someone with T?

 

[Sam Bridge]

If I'd just acquired tinnitus, or it'd recently got worse, then there's no way I'd go to a concert, bar or anything until I'd at least given my ears a rest and had given myself enough time to mentally adjust.

I'm not that mad. I wouldn't recommend going if it's a recent thing. Your ears need time to rest and you can't underestimate the psychological impact. Even if you end up in a safe environment, the stress your overactive mind can put you through makes it pointless. I used to freak out at every knock and bang, but now I'm in a better place mentally (tinnitus wise), I'm a different person. The whole phobia and freaking out thing has gone for me now.

Thats different to me. I think my tinnitus was such a gradual thing that i didn't pay to attention to it until it become reasonably noticeable in quiet rooms. I was still going to concerts but just acknowledging that i had probably damaged my hearing to some degree. Of course I used musicians ear plugs and it was fine. I have somewhat scared myself from going to any more though because of the things I have read on here and other sites.