Could Cervical Disc Herniation Be Causing My Tinnitus?

[Alue]

Most articles discuss poor cervical posture (forward neck posture) as a cause of somatic tinnitus. A history of stress combined with physical stress (muscle spasms of upper trapezius) from improper forward neck bending. Somatic reactions can happen easier under these conditions if mouth is open and pressure to the jaw is happening. A dental procedure, falling down, head trauma or whiplash. Or clenching teeth with lifting and being off balance.

It wasn't the cause of my tinnitus, but I have forward head posture. It turns out it's not such an easy thing to correct when you have more than 15 years of poor posture. I have other theories about what caused mine (I think it's more than just bad practice for me).

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething "I have a lot of above including loss of normal lordosis."

Many people have some loss of normal lordosis which is a curve in the cervical spine which contains the neck vertebrae. This curve is normal and desirable because it helps to stabilize the head and spine. It's when the curve straightens out - (kyphosis), becomes too deep into the neck or faces the wrong direction is when problems happen.


"I'm trying to sleep without a pillow or use a pillow that is indented in the middle."

That good as long the neck doesn't have space (air) under it.


"I wonder at what point do you need surgery for the conditions you described? I have sort of a mild static hiss atm ( but still bothersome) but was loud upon awakening. I tried some physical therapy and will be getting RFA in upper cervical later as I said earlier."

Surgery is sometimes needed for certain conditions or injury such as spine injury. Reasons for surgery gets complicated and volumes of information are discussed per this subject. I think in most cases ( a basic statement) that surgery should be avoided.

"I have DDD and moderate to severe foraminal narrowing at several levels."

I do to. I have mild neural foraminal narrowing at the level of C5-6 and multiple remarkably at the levels C6-7 bilaterally.

"What is your plan of action for your neck conditions? Do you think it will help your T?"

I also have progressive diseases in neck and back. I have spondylosis C4-7. Joint hypertrophy and facet arthritis so I have degenerative diseases and rupture disc in lower back.
I'm old. So for me, if I touch or try to treat this, if hurt's that.
Most will benefit from treatments.

 

[just1morething]

I also have progressive diseases in neck and back. I have spondylosis C4-7. Joint hypertrophy and facet arthritis so I have degenerative diseases and rupture disc in lower back.
I'm old. So for me, if I touch or try to treat this, if hurt's that.
Most will benefit from treatments.

I'm old too, probably older than you. I don't like to talk about age too much lol. I have some lower back issues too. I recently had RFA to my lower back to prevent a fusion. I seem better right now (noise wise) after being outside working for a bit. It was almost 60 degrees here today but will only be in the 20's tomorrow. Maybe just working on the straightening of the cervical lordosis and physical therapy would help for now? I can stand pain more than head noise. So I take it you have bad noise and possibly pain, but are hesitant to have any surgery, whether it's cervical or lower back.

I think I posted this before regarding cervical lordosis:
https://www.geekloveshealth.com/cervical-lordosis-causes-symptoms-and-treatment/

 

[Gman]

The connection between neck issues and T for me have become abundantly clear. But like @just1morething am wondering how much noise exposure is involved.
Mine worsens from certain sounds. If just the neck was the cause it seems unlikely this would happen, right?

My T got worse again as predicted but not as bad as thought, but there's some vertigo with certain head movements.
I hate thoughtless people.

 

[just1morething]

That good as long the neck doesn't have space (air) under it.

Yeah, I need a roll pillow (ordered one) I have a dished out one I bought from a chiropractor.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074N72WLT/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Gman Problems within the neck can cause hearing loss and tinnitus. Arthritis of the neck causes the blood supply of the inner ear to constrict and can cause a high pitched whistle.

Abnormalities in the C1-C3 joints with association of paravertebral muscles can cause nerve damage that can lead to hearing loss and tinnitus. I think anything wrong within the thoracic junction can cause T.

@just1morething I used a pillow almost exactly like yours.

 

[Gman]

@Greg Sacramento that makes a lot of sense.

The thoracic junction and c6-c7 is where my main cervical issues are as well as low hanging cerebellum.

I use one of these pillows and no longer get night neck pains
https://www.amazon.com/NeckPillow-Tempur-Pedic-Standard-Medium-Profile/dp/B0079J6CBG

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Gman The thoracic junction is an auditory structure. Try some vitamins C and E for blood flow, circulation and physical nerve pressure within the thoracic junction. Does your hands tingle at all? That is common with a thoracic junction problem. If so, vitamins will help.

 

[Gman]

@Gman The thoracic junction is an auditory structure. Try some vitamins C and E for blood flow, circulation and physical nerve pressure within the thoracic junction. Does your hands tingle at all? That is common with a thoracic junction problem. If so, vitamins will help.

Rarely tingles. More forearm numbness.
The blood flow thing really makes me think. I do often see my pulse in my vision, head pressure, dizziness and even vertigo. betahistine mostly fixed up the vertigo I guess by increasing blood flow in the ears... I guess the stooge ENT was right about something.

Already on the daily vitamin c. Will try E. Thanks @Greg Sacramento !

 

[just1morething]

But like @just1morething am wondering how much noise exposure is involved.

I guess I would work on your neck and see if it resolves your noise issues like @Greg Sacramento says. That is my path.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething @Gman @Sonic17 @Bill Bauer @threefirefour Try to see if you can get modulation by doing soft circular massage on your brain stem. If neck pain is on side, do the circular motion to the other direction. If neck pain is central to the c spine, then massaging may have to be lowered a small fraction to just above the c1 c2 junction.

My neck pain moves around, but each brain stem massage technique does lower my T. The brain stem is the only place that I can get modulation. The brain stem is a direct gateway to the parasympathetic nervous system which controls cranial, facial, vagus and spinal nerves.

I think that massage on the brain stem may have to be done before therapy on other parts of the neck, jaw or face even without modulation.

 

[Gman]

@Greg Sacramento is that advisable for someone whose brains are hanging slightly out of their skull?

 

[Alue]

@just1morething "I have a lot of above including loss of normal lordosis."

Many people have some loss of normal lordosis which is a curve in the cervical spine which contains the neck vertebrae. This curve is normal and desirable because it helps to stabilize the head and spine. It's when the curve straightens out - (kyphosis), becomes too deep into the neck or faces the wrong direction is when problems happen.

If I try to correct my forward head posture my adam's apple juts way out and I feel like my nasopharangeal airway gets a bit more narrow. How does someone go about correcting that?

I actually think that's part of the reason I developed forward head posture in the first place. Long story short I had poorly done orthodontic treatment when I was a kid that I think resulted in a narrowing of my nasopharangeal airway. The body will gravitate toward the best position it can breathe in.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but you seem to know a lot about cervical issues.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Alue When your body gravitate towards the best position to breathe is considered natural. For your general non physical forward head posture there's exercises, but I probably would go slow if at all. Just an opinion.

Forward applied physical forward head posture is a forced action. Like bending over without using proper body mechanics causing muscle spasms. Or having head jerked or twisted - accident or whiplash. These actions compress the auditory system. Then there's like cross talk between the signals of the muscles and nerves send to the brain and signals from the ear.

@Gman Have you had tests that noted that you have a low hanging cerebellum. - MRIs ? It certainly does appear that you have a thoracic junction problem. The thoracic junction (neck) has auditory structure signal influence, so could it be that you had an ear infection as well as having an inverted c spine for cause of tinnitus.

 

[Gman]

@Greg Sacramento yes an MRI. It revealed 3mm herniation along with the cervical spondylosis. Was told it needs to be 5mm to be a chiari malformation. Ive seen it referred to as chiari 0.
The neuro told my chiro (who was the one who spotted it on the mri) it was nothing, so he could go to town on my neck so i decided to pull the plug on treatment. This neuro also seemed to need to ask his radiologist to google chiari, so I didn't have a lot of faith.

My c spine is very straight, not inverted.
I think maybe when I had impacted ear wax and used some wax solution, I maybe shook my head side to side too much when it felt like the stuff went deep into my ear like when water gets into your ear when swimming. Maybe it did something to the thoracic junction?

 

[Gman]

Does anyone else here with neck issues get an electronic chirp or blip in their ear depending on certain neck/head position? I find it happens several times a day.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Gman I also have spondylosis. I didn't mention the chiari malformation that you listed as a cause, because I would think that you did have it, it would be Type 1. Inverted spine is present in CM Type 1. It's either scoliosis or kyphhosis. CM can cause tinnitus as you know.

Your impacted ear wax situation could be independent to the thoracic junction as well. Although you have a thoracic junction situation. The thoracic area on alert (stressed) will react to ear problems.

I guess it really doesn't make a difference as to the true cause. Just hoping that if turns around for you. You have an excellent understanding of your conditions.

 

[Gman]

You're really good @Greg Sacramento
Not scoliosis but looking at google and my posture must be early kyphosis.

With regards to CM type 1, I read herniations 3mm and upwards can cause issues, yet because of 2mm (which is nothing in the scheme of things) it is considered nothing despite certain symptoms. Mind you happy not to have a piece of skull removed.

 

[just1morething]

I'm disgusted with my loud hissing upon awakening today. I thought I had it figured out yesterday as I was quiet. I guess I was snoring like a horse last night, but I don't think that's related? I forgot to wear my repaired appliance. I thought the noise was neck related? Humidifier water jugs were empty (kind of dry inside)....still confused and frustrated as that is probably not the reason either.

My neck is stiff today probably cause I drove over 170 miles round trip to pick up my appliance yesterday. They wouldn't mail it back to me without being fitted. TMJ doc told me yesterday that TMD was the cause of tinnitus quite often. So I'm snoring like a horse, gaining weight like a pig and hissing like a steam kettle.

Getting 2nd set of upper cervical nerve blocks today as there was a cancellation.

 

[just1morething]

Arthritis of the neck causes the blood supply of the inner ear to constrict and can cause a high pitched whistle.

What can you do about it though? ginkgo biloba, physical therapy, surgery? The Dr. doing my injections (using live x-ray) said I have a lot of arthritis in my neck

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething There's a few methods of physical therapy for spinal arthritis. Vitamins are safe and certain drugs may be considered safe for arthritis treatment with tinnitus. It's impossible to say what drug may be safe for a particular person that has arthritis as a condition of tinnitus. Before any arthritis PT treatment with tinnitus the following tests may need be considered first.
https://www.knowyourback.org/knowyourback/Treatments/AssessmentTools/SpecializedNerveTests.aspx

@Gman You mentioned twice that your neurosurgeon had to seek advice from the radiologist. Doctors go by medical tests to treat conditions, but you are right in saying that your neurosurgeon should know how Chiari relates to tinnitus. If your neuro didn't know much about Chiari at all, then that's sad.

According to my neuro, (including this whole paragraph) there's only about 500 neuros in the entire world that have proper knowledge of tinnitus. Some of the ones that do don't want to be in tinnitus neuro research as it doesn't pay $, but some will assist a study as a consultant. Many of these consultants never see the other study specialists because of travel and time. Some consult by internet, which means that some don't see patients enrolled in clinical trials studies. I would still see a specialist in a neuro profession over just seeing an ENT when the situation is complicated. Many times an ENT will say "you will just need to live with it." A team effort could produce not having to live with it. Always be careful with chiros as some of them have little knowledge of physical tinnitus connections.

To treat complicated cases of tinnitus including somatic tinnitus, it takes a team effort with many hours of consultation back and forth. My neuro thinks that 90% of all with tinnitus have some somatic interactions.

 

[just1morething]

@Greg Sacramento, Thanks for your detailed information. I hope you are better today. Just got nerve blocks done C3-C5. No real change to noise. He still wants to do RFA in those areas.

I think I have some muscle spasms affecting my noise as well as inner ear and possibly some TMJ disorder. I'm looking at TMJ and neck muscles/nerves for now. I will read your links later, thanks.

Yeah it can be a bit complicated if you potentially have multiple causes of your tinnitus.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething I finally was sent the rest of my images of my neck and head. They show that I can add occipital neuralgia to my list of problems. It wasn't noted on the written radiology reports that I already had. My neurosurgeon also missed it. I highly expected that I had occipital neuralgia.

 

[Gman]

My neck is stiff today probably cause I drove over 170 miles round trip to pick up my appliance yesterday.

Sounds a likely reason for the sound increase and pain.

@Greg Sacramento sorry to hear about the occipital neuralgia. Can relate to several of those symptoms. How can they tell on your scans?

I guess too many issues = too hard basket. Not many drs really seem to care or know beyond text book cases.
We need those medical pods like the movie Elysium

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Gman @just1morething What kind of nerve block did you have? No effect on your T?


I can't stand these headaches. I will apply more heat, consider a nerve block, but I might have to take gabapentin or clonazepam which I never used before.

Does anyone get severe headache relief from these drugs? Thanks for any comments.

 

[just1morething]

@Gman @just1morething What kind of nerve block did you have? No effect on your T?

I think it was a medial branch block C3-C5. It did not have any noticable effect on my noise. When I arrived before the injections I had a stiff neck and loud hissing so maybe it's more neck muscle spasm or inner ear. Not real sure.

The pain management Dr. still wants to do RFA on my upper neck even though yesterday I got no relief. I may do it anyway just because my back was done and I can move on with trial and error with my neck. So I'm a bit miserable today with loud noise and a somewhat stiff neck. I think the neurosurgeon wanted to do the cervical RFA before they would consider surgery.

 

[just1morething]

I slept without a pillow the night before because I had 1 good day where my noise seemed gone but maybe it's just that I felt tired. Still unclear how to proceed but sure would like noise relief for more than 1 day. Seems to reset upon awakening so there is a brain connection apparently.

I used my TMJ appliance last night. Inner ear damage sounds like a helpless situation so will continue with TMJ/neck physical therapy/splint etc.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething From my blood work, I noticed that I had too much B6 and B12. Too much B6 can cause muscle spasms and a sore neck. I wasn't taking a B12 and B6 pill. I was getting lots of B6 from a water drink. I need more A & D - they complete for absorption. I must take E and C together. I must take magnesium and zinc together. Hopefully these adjustments will help with nerve deafness and osteoarthritis (wear and tear history).

https://www.ehealthme.com/ds/vitamin-b6/muscle-spasms/

 

[just1morething]

Sometimes it seems a bit hopeless to get loud tinnitus relief. If there is blood supply constriction from arthritis you would think some sort of minimumly invasive surgery would help relieve that? Maybe a foraminotomy? An upper cervical fusion would highly limit your head rotation.
http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/arti...-upper-cervical-spineoperative-management.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24452662

 

[hans01]

@Sonic17 Usually it's the C1, C2 or C3 - for a herniated disc to cause tinnitus, but it can be C5-6, although not likely unless there's joint hypertrophy, facet arthritis - spondylosis present from C4-7.

If there's nerve touching the disc, then a basic needle procedure to cut the nerve has been successful 99% of the time to cure tinnitus as long as there's no other complications. This is by far the most successful treatment for somatic tinnitus.

Hi Greg, who does this kind of procedure ? thanks in advance