CPAP Machine Making Tinnitus Worse?

[Ed209]

I believe I was one of those vulnerable people and that was one factor as to why my phonophobia kept getting worse. I kept reading other people's experience and I made the foolish mistake that it somehow applied to me as well. Like if someone wrote that the refrigerator noise in their home was making their tinnitus worse, I would apply that to me and instantly avoid that sound. It was very irrational and misguided on my part. Tinnitus is a very individual thing and everyone's experience is different after all.

Fortunately, I've made great strides in correcting my phonophobia. Trivial sounds that I used to fear are being shrugged off now. My ability to process each person's experience has also changed.

So in other words, I was a newbie when this all started, but I've grown a lot since then.

I had a very similar experience.

 

[GoatSheep]

I understand what you're saying, and you're right, the Noctuas are specced at 22.6 dBA when they are at full speed (1500 rpm). For all intents and purposes, though, they are near silent.

When you measure the sound of quiet a room, you may get a reading of say, 27 dBA, but you might still hear the ticking of a clock in the background and this can be amplified in your brain quite easily, especially at night if you're trying to sleep. This is the domain of psychoacoustics, where the brain's interpretation of various sounds (particularly different frequencies) is completely different. You could measure two different sounds on a decibel meter and get the same reading, but this wouldn't necessarily translate well into how loud you would perceive the sounds.

I know this is a bit cheesy and cliched, but if you knew there was a clock ticking at 30 dBA, it would be one thing, but if you knew it was a bomb and you were in a locked room, it'd probably become so loud in your perception that it'd feel more like 90 dBA.

Yes, 25 dBA is a reasonable volume that a normal ear has no problem with. It's interesting though that many now consider tinnitus comes from the brain, but at the same time discount perceptions to how sounds affect us can come from the brain.

You reference psychoacoustics as coming from the brain's interpretation of sound. Would it not stand to reason that if ear damage can lead to the brain generating the tinnitus precept, that ear damage could cause some type of psychoacoustic malfunction per se also that could be related to things like "reactive tinnitus", spiking, noxacusis pain etc? I mean isn't one of the leading theories on hyperacusis that the brain turns up central gain? Is central gain not in any way related to psychoacoustic perception?

I just find it strange because one of the big debates on the research forum is about not having ways to gauge possible improvement with drugs like FX-322 because the present metrics don't seem to suffice like pure tone audiometry. Yet when it comes to what level of noise could be causing problems to people with noxacusis etc there is this idea that oh these levels of noise damage set by OSHA/NIOSH seem to be perfect metrics that no one is challenging, or at least I haven't seen any direct challenge.

I recently had a major noxacusis setback from being in a record store for 15 min with music that was 75 dBA max. A couple people commented that isn't enough noise to do any damage. I'm not really disputing that further acoustic trauma occurred, but in many ways I'm the worst I've ever been. So something happened that none of these current models explain, or at least for a compromised ear.

I mean as far as all these timeframes set for exposure, all they tell us is about hair cell death/hearing loss, as far as I understand it. So to me the logic that it somehow applies beyond that to the realms of what could be irritating someone's tinnitus in other ways seems a bit flawed.

 

[Ed209]

Yes, 25 dBA is a reasonable volume that a normal ear has no problem with

Nobody's ears have a problem at 25 dBA. I will repeat that this is equivalent to a near-silent room, and you're not going to get much quieter during an average day unless you sleep in an anechoic chamber.

You reference psychoacoustics as coming from the brain's interpretation of sound. Would it not stand to reason that if ear damage can lead to the brain generating the tinnitus precept, that ear damage could cause some type of psychoacoustic malfunction per se also that could be related to things like "reactive tinnitus", spiking, noxacusis pain etc? I mean isn't one of the leading theories on hyperacusis that the brain turns up central gain? Is central gain not in any way related to psychoacoustic perception?

I just find it strange because one of the big debates on the research forum is about not having ways to gauge possible improvement with drugs like FX-322 because the present metrics don't seem to suffice like pure tone audiometry. Yet when it comes to what level of noise could be causing problems to people with noxacusis etc there is this idea that oh these levels of noise damage set by OSHA/NIOSH seem to be perfect metrics that no one is challenging, or at least I haven't seen any direct challenge.

There's a lot to unpick in this post. Hyperacusis represents a broad umbrella of conditions/symptoms, and psychoacoustics attempts to measure one's perception of sound. There have been attempts to use the latter to accurately measure one's hyperacusis experience, but there are limitations and no objective measurement can currently be made.

I don't see how this is relevant to the original idea that 22 dBA can cause damage or be the proven cause of a spike, and bringing the OSHA guidelines into this debate is pointless. I fail to see the relevance of the point you're making.

If one is experiencing a spike whilst lying in a silent room then the cause is almost certainly a benign one, such as disturbed sleep or creeping anxiety. One could equally blame the bed sheets for causing the spike as opposed to the CPAP machine, in this scenario, as the evidence would be just as strong.

 

[GoatSheep]

Nobody's ears have a problem at 25 dBA. I will repeat that this is equivalent to a near-silent room, and you're not going to get much quieter during an average day unless you sleep in an anechoic chamber.

There's a lot to unpick in this post. Hyperacusis represents a broad umbrella of conditions/symptoms, and psychoacoustics attempts to measure one's perception of sound. There have been attempts to use the latter to accurately measure one's hyperacusis experience, but there are limitations and no objective measurement can currently be made.

I don't see how this is relevant to the original idea that 22 dBA can cause damage or be the proven cause of a spike, and bringing the OSHA guidelines into this debate is pointless. I fail to see the relevance of the point you're making.

If one is experiencing a spike whilst lying in a silent room then the cause is almost certainly a benign one, such as disturbed sleep or creeping anxiety. One could equally blame the bed sheets for causing the spike as opposed to the CPAP machine, in this scenario, as the evidence would be just as strong.

Yes, people's ears can have a problem at 25 dB. I have catastrophic noxacusis and any sound causes me pain. I wear hearing protection 24/7 presently. I'm tired of people who don't even experience hyperacusis trying to dictate what is and isn't possible, lol. You're a gaslighter, plain and simple.

 

[just1morething]

Yes, people's ears can have a problem at 25 dB. I have catastrophic noxacusis and any sound causes me pain. I wear hearing protection 24/7 presently. I'm tired of people who don't even experience hyperacusis trying to dictate what is and isn't possible, lol. You're a gaslighter, plain and simple.

My BiPAP makes my tinnitus much worse in my left ear. It could be pressure through your Eustachian tubes. BiPAP does have higher pressure than CPAP but does not have pressure when exhaling.

 

[Ed209]

Yes, people's ears can have a problem at 25 dB. I have catastrophic noxacusis and any sound causes me pain. I wear hearing protection 24/7 presently. I'm tired of people who don't even experience hyperacusis trying to dictate what is and isn't possible, lol. You're a gaslighter, plain and simple.

Go to the quietest room in your house and measure the decibel level with a meter. What we perceive as silence will give a measurement of around 25 dBA. There's nothing to protect oneself from at this level and the CPAP machine in question runs at 22 dBA. If one experiences a spike during relative silence, which is common, then why instinctively blame noise/sound? What is the reasoning when there are so many other things to consider such as disturbed sleep, blocked Eustachian tubes, pressure issues, stress, rumination? I'd say that wearing protection 24/7 is likely exacerbating your symptoms as you need to experience some sound no matter how bad one's hyperacusis is. Complete deprivation is as bad as a sound exposure setback, and I know it's an extremely difficult maze to navigate.

How can my posts on this thread even be remotely considered as gaslighting?

 

[Wrfortiscue]

I got a ResMed 11 device. I sometimes get an ear pop when swallowing. Is this normal? My pressure isn't too high, like a 4 when awake, and 8 when sleeping. Just started yesterday.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

Last night I woke up to crackling ears but it went away in minutes. Tinnitus was pretty quiet after. Guessing there is a leak with my mouth or something.

 

[Joe Cuber]

I got a ResMed 11 device. I sometimes get an ear pop when swallowing. Is this normal? My pressure isn't too high, like a 4 when awake, and 8 when sleeping. Just started yesterday.

I think I have the same device you have, is it the ResMed AirSense 11? I've been using mine for about a year now. I started out at 4-9. After using it a while and monitoring how many apneas I was still getting and monitoring how often I'd max out at the high level, I eventually cranked it up to 10-19.

I haven't noticed any ear popping or crackling, mostly because my ears do that often anyways, so I wouldn't be paying attention if they did pop/crackle.

Guessing there is a leak with my mouth or something.

What gives you the idea that there's a leak with your mouth? What kind of mask are you using?

 

[Wrfortiscue]

I think I have the same device you have, is it the ResMed AirSense 11? I've been using mine for about a year now. I started out at 4-9. After using it a while and monitoring how many apneas I was still getting and monitoring how often I'd max out at the high level, I eventually cranked it up to 10-19.

I haven't noticed any ear popping or crackling, mostly because my ears do that often anyways, so I wouldn't be paying attention if they did pop/crackle.

What gives you the idea that there's a leak with your mouth? What kind of mask are you using?

OK, good to hear about you not getting ear issues.

I think a leak because I wake up with a really dry mouth. I'm a mouth breather. Yes, I have the same device and I'm using nose pillows.

 

[Joe Cuber]

OK, good to hear about you not getting ear issues.

I think a leak because I wake up with a really dry mouth. I'm a mouth breather. Yes, I have the same device and I'm using nose pillows.

Ah yes, dry mouth. I have the exact set up you have. I use nose pillows too and I'm a mouth breather. I've resorted to using 3M tape to keep my mouth shut. It looks like I'm getting mugged, but it works. I've tried all kinds of things to try to keep my mouth closed while I sleep, this is the only thing that works for me. This is the tape I use, I cover my entire mouth with it:

3M Micropore S Surgical Tape, 2770-2, 2 inch x 5.5 yard (2.5 cm x 5 m), 6 Rolls/Box

 

[Wrfortiscue]

Ah yes, dry mouth. I have the exact set up you have. I use nose pillows too and I'm a mouth breather. I've resorted to using 3M tape to keep my mouth shut. It looks like I'm getting mugged, but it works. I've tried all kinds of things to try to keep my mouth closed while I sleep, this is the only thing that works for me. This is the tape I use, I cover my entire mouth with it:

3M Micropore S Surgical Tape, 2770-2, 2 inch x 5.5 yard (2.5 cm x 5 m), 6 Rolls/Box

Nice, thanks for the tip. I'm going to get some.

 

[Joe Cuber]

Nice, thanks for the tip. I'm going to get some.

Sure thing @Wrfortiscue, let me know how it goes. Getting used to a CPAP is a bunch of trial and error.