Deactivating Automotive Airbags

[MikeP505]

instantaneous airbag deployment in silence

Take a plastic shopping bag outside. Open it up just a little holding the handles. Now real fast, swing it in the air to fill it up and make it fully expand. Let me know what your db meter reads from the "snap"! Remember, these bags need to deploy and fill faster than 200 km per hr. Even compressed air will make them snap loud.

 

[MikeP505]

..................bubble wrap for sale................ get your bubble wrap.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I see your point about the noise but an airbag can safe your life or the life of your passenger.

My point exactly Jason. My car has 10 airbags. Although I can flip a switch to deactivate them I would never do that. It is unlikely that a short burst of sound of 100 decibels or higher is going to cause tinnitus or damage to one's hearing. Hearing damage is usually caused by time exposed - duration sustained length of time. However, this is just my opinion as I'm not an expert.

I have a good quality sound level meter that I occasionally use when listening to my HI-FI. Some of you may remember I mentioned I'm an Audiophile, so sound levels are important to me but I try not to get too fixated on it. I live in Brighton and as an experiment went into Brighton Pier by the sea. They have a very large amusement arcade there where loud music is played - and slot machines of very description to entice people to part away with their money. It was packed with tourists and the volume of people's voices easily competed with the level of music.

My sound level meter constantly read 100 decibels and at times higher. I used to have very severe hyperacusis. My ears never felt uncomfortable nor did my tinnitus increase and I stayed in that environment for well over 20 minutes. As a precaution I had my noise-reducing earplugs with me but didn't notice any adverse effects. After leaving to head home I felt no delayed shock and the next day I was completely fine.

One needs to be careful about tinnitus and becoming over obsessed by it. From monitoring every little change in it's perception to watching every morsel of food or drink that passes our lips and thinking: will this spike my tinnitus. Life is for living and one must try to do so. Of course, we must be sensible and at times prudent but everything must be kept is balance to avoid becoming paranoid.

Michael

 

[Bobby B]

@MikeP505
If the Harley on the photo is yours then you will agree that riding a motorcycle with helmets is far more dangerous than driving a large sedan with seat belts and no bags..lawsuit or not, modern cars are well built to absorb the shock and seat belts are the main safety feature not the airbags ..that's why its illegal to remove seat belts but not to remove airbags

 

[MikeP505]

I understand what your saying Bobby. I really do and am not trying to mock you or make light of your situation at all. Just hope when you post these things, you tell people what you did as a precaution for "yourself" and do not recommend anyone follow your ideas without knowing all the legal risks. I am glad you find comfort in deactivating them. Less stress is good!

 

[stophiss]

@Alue
The bag can only blow if there is current sent to it - since the computer/control unit is disconnected it cannot send any current . Activation is triggered by the sensors switches at the front of the car.

The potential of bags blowing up on their own is still remotely possible but extremely low - ideally I would have liked to remove the whole damn things but its too much work and the steering handle horn bag is an integral part of the horn.

Its not illegal to remove/de-activate airbags provided you do it yourself.

In the USA It's not illegal for an auto shop to deactivate airbags provided you have a medical condition that requires it - and I do.

Hence there are no issues in court.

If you are in a crash with the next door neighbor's 12 year old daughter in the front seat of the vehicle and the accident is investigated and it would be due to mfg liability of airbag functionality and the little girl is killed because you disabled your airbags, good luck with what you wrote about in court. You may not even be able to afford a bicycle after its all over. Your house will be gone.

 

[Foncky]

@MikeP505 Completely Mike, I should not have used the word "silence". But softer than 170dB is possible I hope.

Anyway, your bubble wrap joke is funny, but let's not be too judgemental here. Don't you think we know that deactivating airbags can seem quite ridiculous ? But we all have a different story (read mine about the stupid balloon) and we deal with our condition in the way we feel is right for us.

 

[MikeP505]

why its illegal to remove seat belts but not to remove airbags

Excellent question. The legal issues on airbags are simple. If it was illegal to operate a vehicle without airbags then EVERY vehicle including that 57 Chev at the car show must be retrofitted. So the almighty dollar speaks here yet again. If it's factory installed, and you knowingly deactivate it, your insurance company will love love love you! Will come a day where a cop see's the airbag warning light on the dash and hands you a ticket and demands for activation. Just not yet as many 60's 7-0' and 80's cars never had em and still run the roads. This will be law....... one day, like the seatbelt.

My bike is a Honda BTW. Yes they are noisy and risky. I refuse to give up everything I love just because of tinnitus.

 

[Foncky]

It is unlikely that a short burst of sound of 100 decibels or higher is going to cause tinnitus or damage to one's hearing. Hearing damage is usually caused by time exposed - duration sustained length of time. However, this is just my opinion as I'm not an expert.

Unfortunately, when you reach the 120-130dB level, a short burst is all it can take to damage ears. Especially with someone already suffering from T or hearing loss.

 

[MikeP505]

read mine about the stupid balloon

Hey, I read your post. I know your feelings and fears. Now your going to run away from any child holding a balloon. Ahhhhhh Becky has a balloon..... RUN!! lol

Kidding buddy. You know what I'm getting at. The stress of the "what if's" are going to do more damage than IF an event happens. Stress and tinnitus are directly correlated and documented.

 

[MikeP505]

My bike is a Honda BTW. Yes they are noisy and risky. I refuse to give up everything I love just because of tinnitus.

I'm not buying 8 Billion feet of bubble wrap for me. I'm still going to live a little, have fun a little, but send me a message if you want me to ship you an order of wrap!

 

[Michael Leigh]

Unfortunately, when you reach the 120-130dB, a short burst is all it can take to damage ears. Especially with someone already suffering from T or hearing loss.

I disagree Foncky. If a person applies the treatment that I've suggested. Using things like sound enrichment, hearing aids, white noise generators and being under the care of a Hearing Therapist. The sensitivity that a person has to sound will greatly reduce. This fear of sound that some people have is called Phonophobia and it's real. I used to counsel a person that had it. It first started with tinnitus and hyperacusis and it developed into Phonophobia although with treatment this person improved.
Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

I'm not buying 8 Billion feet of bubble wrap for me. I'm still going to live a little, have fun a little, but send me a message if you want me to ship you an order of wrap!

lol...Mike, that statement has made my day!

 

[stophiss]

Excellent question. The legal issues on airbags are simple. If it was illegal to operate a vehicle without airbags then EVERY vehicle including that 57 Chev at the car show must be retrofitted. So the almighty dollar speaks here yet again. If it's factory installed, and you knowingly deactivate it, your insurance company will love love love you! Will come a day where a cop see's the airbag warning light on the dash and hands you a ticket and demands for activation. Just not yet as many 60's 7-0' and 80's cars never had em and still run the roads. This will be law....... one day, like the seatbelt.

My bike is a Honda BTW. Yes they are noisy and risky. I refuse to give up everything I love just because of tinnitus.

As a previous motorcycle junkie and custom bike builder, I would maintain that more people would do much better with their tinnitus like you do if they owned a motorcycle. Honestly I stopped riding because of the risk. Silly me. And then I contracted tinnitus. Trying to stay out of the Ducati dealership.

 

[MikeP505]

Alright, a final note about this airbag issue and then I will drop it.

IF you deactivate your airbags, I suggest you inform your insurance company. Your vehicle premiums are based on
A) Value of said vehicle
B) Known issues with vehicle collisions and damage estimates
C) Safety devices installed in vehicle.
D) Liability claims from injured drivers and passengers
E) Liability claims from injured pedestrians

My insurance company offers a discount if I have winter tires for 2 months we get snow. They don't come and check my tires. They ask me if I have them or not. I say yes or no, and get the discount or not. If I get in an accident the cop checks my tires and reports everything to my insurance company.

You deactivate a safety device, you better be covered buddy. Tell your insurance company and pay them the extra premiums for added liabilities.

 

[MikeP505]

Also please note, if you lease the vehicle......DON'T MUCK WITH IT!

 

[Bobby B]

@MikeP505

Nah the insurance doesn't care because I don't have any insurance covering the passengers or driver -or owners vehicle ... it only covers the damages to other cars/people/things so bags or even belts are irrelevant.

If you give a ride to that 12 year old neighbor Daughter on your Honda or your 1960's classic with no bags / no belts car and she becomes gravely injured after an accident then will you be liable as well ? I mean she couldn't have known the risks

 

[MikeP505]

If you give a ride to that 12 year old neighbor Daughter on your Honda or your 1960's classic with no bags / no belts car and she becomes injured after an accident then will you be liable as well ?

Absolutely liable. 100% especially if I'm at fault. My insurance company covers this and knows full well there is no seat belt ( thank God cause if my bike continues scraping down the road after I drop it, I don't wanna be around the thing) or airbags on my bike. My passengers can sue me and my insurance kicks in!

 

[MikeP505]

Being covered as a driver on my bike is iffy. They will cover me for medical costs up to a set amount.

 

[LadyDi]

People will do what they want and you don't really need another voice in the debate here. But disconnecting your airbags because you are worried about your tinnitus is one of the craziest things I have heard here.

Air bags are one of things directly responsible for the decline in US auto fatalities, as others have said. I gave up my 2002 Honda (which I loved) and bought a new car last year primarily because of advances of auto safety technology in 13 years --- including air bags all around, not just for the driver.

 

[MikeP505]

I had a truck where you used the ignition key in a slot to deactivate the passenger airbag. It's my responsibility to turn it back on if I have a passenger or my insurance company will love love love me lol. Not to mention I want my passengers as safe as possible, in a car, truck or motorcycle.

 

[Sebastians]

Ok.

December 28th, 2015 :
I'm in a car, at the rear. A baby holds a balloon, next to me. I've had mild T and mild H for years, but I'm perfectly happy. I don't give a fuck about T really.
The balloon goes bang. 140dB.just.next.to.my.head.

December 28th, 2015, a few minutes later :
I'm starting a long journey toward severe T, severe H and 60dB hearing loss.

I can't imagine what damage multiple 170dB airbags explosion would have caused.

We all have our definition of "life or death" situations.

That's already the third time i read about a severe increase in T and H because of a balloon popping :-(

 

[Ed209]

Yes but you didn't list acoustic trauma as a cause of your hearing loss and resulting T so you don't need to worry too much about more noise I would think.

People without an experience of acoustic trauma won't be able to understand what we have been through..

I rode for decades in non airbags and non seat belts cars with passengers..In this case unless the passenger was lied to about the car having airbags and would have not sat in the car knowing that the car has no working airbags, I just don't see how you can be held responsible in court.

This (ex-) airbag car is driven by me alone for 90% of the time - its just a boring modern car.

On the other hand the fun cars are much older with no airbags, no seat belts, no power brakes and solid steel dashboards and those are having the most passengers by far ...

Bobby I understand why you would want to disable them but I still think it's a dangerous game you're playing. I got my T increase from an acoustic trauma so you can count me in this group. I completely understand what you and others like us have gone through, we have all fought our own battle against this shitty condition.

I would say that you are being held to ransom by tinnitus; you are letting it dictate your life to a point that must surely be putting a strain on your mental health. Have you ever tried any CBT or counselling? You seem like the archetypal phonophobic person, which I totally understand judging from what you've been through, but there are better ways of managing this condition.

 

[Michael Leigh]

putting a strain on your mental health. Have you ever tried any CBT or counselling? You seem like the archetypal phonophobic person, which I totally understand judging from what you've been through, but there are better ways of managing this condition.

We often sing from the same hymn sheet Ed and I totally agree with what you say. We mustn't let tinnitus dictate our life. Some of the people that have commented on this thread are showing signs of Phonophobia, I can spot it from a mile away as I've helped someone with it. This person had it so bad, it developed to the point where she couldn't stand the sound of her: fridge, washing machine, kettle, the sound of rain on her roof. It was absolutely heart breaking to hear her distress. Fortunately she's a lot better.
Michael

 

[MikeP505]

I don't have any insurance covering the passengers or driver

In my province being covered by a 2 Million dollar liability policy is MANDATORY. I can choose not to be covered for collision repairs, towing etc. I must be covered for liability. This covers EVERYONE that may be involved in an issue.

 

[LeQuack]

Actually there is research that suggests that 85% percent of people that have had airbags deployed have some sort of hearing loss/tinnitus afterwards. So it's not an if, airbags deployment will damage your hearing, no doubt about it. It sacrifices your hearing to maybe save your from other injuries. Here is the study:
http://www.michiganear.com/webdocuments/Airbag-Deployment-Study.pdf

I think people over-estimate the effectiveness of airbags. None of the race drivers and people who value their life use airbags, they use actual proven methods, such as a roll cages, multi point seat belts, helmets and so on. Airbags have become a selling point, a car with 12 airbags is easier to sell with 8 or even less. It's not a magical device that will decide whether you live or die. That has a lot more to do with luck.

 

[MikeP505]

Fortunately she's a lot better

Make sure you send her our love!

 

[stophiss]

Actually there is research that suggests that 85% percent of people that have had airbags deployed have some sort of hearing loss/tinnitus afterwards. So it's not an if, airbags deployment will damage your hearing, no doubt about it. It sacrifices your hearing to maybe save your from other injuries. Here is the study:
http://www.michiganear.com/webdocuments/Airbag-Deployment-Study.pdf

I think people over-estimate the effectiveness of airbags. None of the race drivers and people who value their life use airbags, they use actual proven methods, such as a roll cages, multi point seat belts, helmets and so on. Airbags have become a selling point, a car with 12 airbags is easier to sell with 8 or even less. It's not a magical device that will decide whether you live or die. That has a lot more to do with luck.

Sorry but what you write is Le-Quack-ery A little levity within the T club.

Hard to know about the veracity of the study on hearing loss and airbag deployment. Too many variables at play honestly…interior volume of the vehicle, no. of airbag deployed…no. of occupants….PV = nRT in terms of air volume relative to pressure and dB level. So any single study clearly doesn't take into account the overall variability of dB level…for example not all airbags deploy in crashes depending on plane of deceleration…pass airbag turned off with vehicles with seat weight sensors without a pass side occupant etc. Huge variation in dB level…compact sedan versus large SUV etc.

I can speak to the reason NASCAR doesn't use airbags…or formula one. Marketing has nothing to do with it. I touched on it briefly above. It has to do with crash pulse of the vehicle but also with respect to scale of speed. Airbags will not save a driver at 200 mph. Reason is…for performance the chassis stiffness even with designed crash zones of stock cars…stock cars are very rigid for handling and power transfer. Speed is the biggest factor. Higher the speed, the more powerful the airbag has to be to present to the occupant to restrain off the steering wheel or instrument panel on the passenger side. What the public don't understand is there is a fine line between hurting and killing somebody with airbag…crushing their chest or breaking their neck etc versus restraining them in a high speed violent crash…or needlessly hurting them in a low speed fender bender. At speeds above 100 mph, speed of inflation would have to be so fast and so great that they would represent too hard a reaction surface to restrain a driver against injury. In other words, an airbag with this amount of power would hurt a driver more than restrain, i.e. decelerate the body without injury. This is studied continuously in the laboratory. That is why they don't exist in race cars. Passenger cars and trucks have more flexible chassis and travel at a much lower rate of speed and therefore an airbag can manage this energy effectively and save lives. If you run a car into a large diameter oak tree at 100 mph, pretty good chance the driver of the car with or without an airbag will die due to instant deceleration of internal organs within the body and the brain within the cranium…whether there is an airbag or not.
Last reason is...6 pt. racing harness and even Hans device used in a stock car versus a seat belt with airbag. An occupant in a passenger car has VASTLY more freedom of movement as compared to a racing stock car and conventional drivers would never accept wearing a 6 pt. racing harness in their daily commute versus a seat belt and air bag which affords much more bodily freedom. Within the airbag industry there is so much freedom of movement for occupants within passenger vehicles that airbag tests are performed expressly for this....'out of position' testing is one of the biggest challenges of airbag design as its easy to hurt somebody who is not in textbook driving position which also varies greatly depending on body height and weight and seat position.

In summary, physics and not marketing is why airbags exist and in what applications.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Make sure you send her our love!

Will do Mike...

 

[HiThere]

I didn't have time to read all responses so forgive me if this was already suggested, but why wouldn't you wear earplugs while driving in your vehicle rather than disabling a potentially life saving device? I have both T and H and I find the road noise in my vehicle to be loud enough on its own where after a day of driving on the freeway my T is amplified at least overnight. Because of this I often wear earplugs while driving. I can still here if a siren were to approach. I can also listen to radio and not have to worry about cranking the volume too high to overcome the road noise which would amplify the volume of my T even more.

Earplugs rather than disable air bags. No?

Chris