Dirk De Ridder Explores Ketamine and HD Transcranial Infraslow Pink Noise Stimulation (HD-tIPNS)

[Tezcatlipoca]

Professor Dirk De Ridder investigates the effect of low dose Ketamine and High Definition Transcranial Infraslow Pink Noise Stimulation (HD-tIPNS) on tinnitus loudness and severity in a Phase 1/2 clinical trial.

24 trial subjects with chronic tinnitus will receive treatment at the University of Otago Dunedin School of Medicine, in New Zealand. The treatment will be delivered twice, with 10 days between sessions.

Key Inclusion criteria: Adults aged between 18-70 years with constant subjective tinnitus and a grade of 3 or higher on the tinnitus questionnaire.

Source:
https://anzctr.org.au/Trial/Registration/TrialReview.aspx?id=381021

 

[GBB]

+1 for Ketamine. Very interested in this.

 

[Hamsti]

What does "constant tinnitus" mean? That it is always there?

 

[AfroSnowman]

What does "constant tinnitus" mean? That it is always there?

That's how I read it.

 

[Lukee]

I spoke to a doctor a couple months ago who knows a lot about psychedelics and related therapies for mental conditions. I was talking about the varying effects of Ketamine, Psilocybin and MDMA and how for some people it seems to help and for others it makes them worse off. We also spoke about neuromodulation and things like the Lenire device, for which he understood the concept clearly but had no actual knowledge specifically about the device. At a point on the call he started to talk about being primed to receive any type of treatment or therapy and that's how Ketamine works in the clinics. He said the trip is only 50% of the puzzle, the other 50% is receiving the help you need to get your brain in the right frame of mind. At that point, we both had a eureka moment: what if you pair up a psychedelic and neuromodulation or some other form of tVNS to prime the brain for a reset.

Obviously, this was high level talk and we didn't exactly layout a plan for this to work but it seems like Dr. De Ridder's trial seems to follow the same sentiment. I am very interested in this as I believe the limitations for many of these treatments is that many are not ready to receive them mentally.

 

[Gb3]

What does "constant tinnitus" mean? That it is always there?

Yes, 24/7.

 

[GBB]

Can someone here please try Ketamine and post on it?

I've spent like $5-10k so far and some external data points would really help me make an informed decision!

 

[Gb3]

Can someone here please try Ketamine and post on it?

I've spent like $5-10k so far and some external data points would really help me make an informed decision!

Your profile says you had mild tinnitus from 2016-2019 and it was cured? What cured it and what made it come back?

 

[GBB]

Your profile says you had mild tinnitus from 2016-2019 and it was cured? What cured it and what made it come back?

It went away on its own by protecting my ears - it came back when I got microsuction for an ear that was completely blocked and then being near a passing train going through my town. It was only on the right side the first time and quiet. Unfortunately now it is bilateral and quite loud : (

 

[EDDTEKK]

Does Brai3n offer the treatment (HD-tIPNS) which De Ridder is investigating in New Zealand? I am open to trying this.

 

[Nobody19]

Does Brai3n offer the treatment (HD-tIPNS) which De Ridder is investigating in New Zealand? I am open to trying this.

You can check their site:

https://www.brai3n.com/en/

I hope they asked him questions about the clinic in the Tinnitus Talk Podcast.

 

[Ben Winders]

Does Brai3n offer the treatment (HD-tIPNS) which De Ridder is investigating in New Zealand? I am open to trying this.

Send them an email. They are quite responsive. Or request a Zoom call with De Ridder himself. He actually mentioned HD-tIPNS in the last call I had with him, I don't think they are offering it at Brai3n yet or I m sure he would have suggested it to me.

 

[Lurius]

Send them an email. They are quite responsive. Or request a Zoom call with De Ridder himself. He actually mentioned HD-tIPNS in the last call I had with him, I don't think they are offering it at Brai3n yet or I m sure he would have suggested it to me.

Wait, you're saying it's actually possible to talk directly to De Ridder? :O

 

[ajc]

Wait, you're saying it's actually possible to talk directly to De Ridder? :O

It is and a telehealth appointment costs only €80 EUR.

How Much Would It Cost to See Dirk De Ridder?

 

[Ben Winders]

Wait, you're saying it's actually possible to talk directly to De Ridder? :O

Yup. Fairly easy. He doesn't have all the answers either though.

 

[Mentos]

Wait, you're saying it's actually possible to talk directly to De Ridder? :O

When I spoke with him last Monday, he said he expects the trial in New Zealand to last 6 months and, if successful, they will offer it at Brai3n end of this year or early 2022.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

When I spoke with him last Monday, he said he expects the trial in New Zealand to last 6 months and, if successful, they will offer it at Brai3n end of this year or early 2022.

That's great.

 

[Ehren M]

I spoke to a doctor a couple months ago who knows a lot about psychedelics and related therapies for mental conditions. I was talking about the varying effects of Ketamine, Psilocybin and MDMA and how for some people it seems to help and for others it makes them worse off. We also spoke about neuromodulation and things like the Lenire device, for which he understood the concept clearly but had no actual knowledge specifically about the device. At a point on the call he started to talk about being primed to receive any type of treatment or therapy and that's how Ketamine works in the clinics. He said the trip is only 50% of the puzzle, the other 50% is receiving the help you need to get your brain in the right frame of mind. At that point, we both had a eureka moment: what if you pair up a psychedelic and neuromodulation or some other form of tVNS to prime the brain for a reset.

Obviously, this was high level talk and we didn't exactly layout a plan for this to work but it seems like Dr. De Ridder's trial seems to follow the same sentiment. I am very interested in this as I believe the limitations for many of these treatments is that many are not ready to receive them mentally.

The 50/50% split between a trip and a correct mindset being necessary for a brain "reset" you noted seems so very likely. I've read many places that development of tinnitus due to an acoustic trauma is most likely to occur during a stressful period, and that was definitely the case with my symptoms. So that's sort of a 50% implication of a loud event and 50% mindset, together amounting to development of the symptoms.

I find this reasoning helpful in my own path of healing.

Cheers,
Ehren

 

[Lukee]

The 50/50% split between a trip and a correct mindset being necessary for a brain "reset" you noted seems so very likely. I've read many places that development of tinnitus due to an acoustic trauma is most likely to occur during a stressful period, and that was definitely the case with my symptoms. So that's sort of a 50% implication of a loud event and 50% mindset, together amounting to development of the symptoms.

I find this reasoning helpful in my own path of healing.

Cheers,
Ehren

I had this conversation last night. I can't believe that a young waiter at a restaurant drops a dish then suddenly has tinnitus and hyperacusis out of nowhere. I mean, I believe that it happens, I just don't believe it can happen with being predisposed. It must take some for of psychological/physical stressor then bam along comes a noise or ototoxic drug and you have tinnitus. Maybe in some circumstances, the tensor tympani and/or stapedius aren't working properly for a period of time and when the loud noise comes around, that's when the damage occurs.

I fully get people getting tinnitus from hearing loss after excessive exposure to loud noise but to get it from a single incident is bizarre. With that being said, the process of reversal must require more than a therapy, the mindset must be correct and maybe that's what some of these drugs can do: provide a reset. Exactly as you say.

 

[Pete88]

When I spoke with him last Monday, he said he expects the trial in New Zealand to last 6 months and, if successful, they will offer it at Brai3n end of this year or early 2022.

So wait, is this kind of like Lenire or whatever in that it tries to reset a part of your brain, except by using some sort of pink noise input plus an already existing/approved drug? And if it works, they'll know in 6 months and be able to commercialize it soon afterwards to some capacity?

 

[AfroSnowman]

I had this conversation last night. I can't believe that a young waiter at a restaurant drops a dish then suddenly has tinnitus and hyperacusis out of nowhere. I mean, I believe that it happens, I just don't believe it can happen with being predisposed. It must take some for of psychological/physical stressor then bam along comes a noise or ototoxic drug and you have tinnitus. Maybe in some circumstances, the tensor tympani and/or stapedius aren't working properly for a period of time and when the loud noise comes around, that's when the damage occurs.

I fully get people getting tinnitus from hearing loss after excessive exposure to loud noise but to get it from a single incident is bizarre. With that being said, the process of reversal must require more than a therapy, the mindset must be correct and maybe that's what some of these drugs can do: provide a reset. Exactly as you say.

I can promise you my onset had nothing to do with my mindset.

 

[Matchbox]

I can promise you my onset had nothing to do with my mindset.

I don't think he implies attitude, more like getting our brains out of whatever metastable state it is occupying.

 

[Lukee]

I can promise you my onset had nothing to do with my mindset.

There are many people who had a single incident that would not normally cause any significant harm to others. This occurrence is common, 4 people exposed to a loud noise at the same distance and one goes home with debilitating tinnitus. There is a reason this happens, it is likely some predisposition to tinnitus by genetic and/or mental state. It doesn't mean you have to be depressed, or anxious. It means that at the time of trauma, something didn't work right and you were affected.

I'm not suggesting this is every case. Some people were exposed to severely loud noises and received the appropriate trauma-induced tinnitus. But for those that weren't, what then is the explanation @AfroSnowman? It's not my theory btw, this is a theory that has been circulating amongst researchers and given this thread, it would seem the De Ridder believes something of the same. Basically, the mindset should be appropriate to receive the treatment. Some of the psychedelics are opening the door to do that.

 

[AfroSnowman]

There are many people who had a single incident that would not normally cause any significant harm to others. This occurrence is common, 4 people exposed to a loud noise at the same distance and one goes home with debilitating tinnitus. There is a reason this happens, it is likely some predisposition to tinnitus by genetic and/or mental state. It doesn't mean you have to be depressed, or anxious. It means that at the time of trauma, something didn't work right and you were affected.

I'm not suggesting this is every case. Some people were exposed to severely loud noises and received the appropriate trauma-induced tinnitus. But for those that weren't, what then is the explanation @AfroSnowman? It's not my theory btw, this is a theory that has been circulating amongst researchers and given this thread, it would seem the De Ridder believes something of the same. Basically, the mindset should be appropriate to receive the treatment. Some of the psychedelics are opening the door to do that.

I agree with everything you said.

I think I had just a touch of snark and personal sadness in my response because my situation was a singular event that took out a good chunk of my hearing as well as leaving me with tinnitus.

It makes me wonder that, if state of mind and predisposition were not part of origin of the condition (i.e. severe acoustic trauma) whether this line of treatment, affecting the state of mind, could possibly be effective or if the original cause of maladaption is irrelevant.

 

[Mentos]

There are many people who had a single incident that would not normally cause any significant harm to others. This occurrence is common, 4 people exposed to a loud noise at the same distance and one goes home with debilitating tinnitus. There is a reason this happens, it is likely some predisposition to tinnitus by genetic and/or mental state. It doesn't mean you have to be depressed, or anxious. It means that at the time of trauma, something didn't work right and you were affected.

I'm not suggesting this is every case. Some people were exposed to severely loud noises and received the appropriate trauma-induced tinnitus. But for those that weren't, what then is the explanation @AfroSnowman? It's not my theory btw, this is a theory that has been circulating amongst researchers and given this thread, it would seem the De Ridder believes something of the same. Basically, the mindset should be appropriate to receive the treatment. Some of the psychedelics are opening the door to do that.

I tend to agree with you. On the day I got my acoustic trauma 6 years ago (loud concert) I was under a period of massive stress. I must have been prone to damage.

 

[Lukee]

I agree with everything you said.

I think I had just a touch of snark and personal sadness in my response because my situation was a singular event that took out a good chunk of my hearing as well as leaving me with tinnitus.

It makes me wonder that, if state of mind and predisposition were not part of origin of the condition (i.e. severe acoustic trauma) whether this line of treatment, affecting the state of mind, could possibly be effective or if the original cause of maladaption is irrelevant.

No harm done.

You make a good point and I guess the trials will tell us. It's a theory anyway but it is purely logical.

I think a big argument is whether or not some people have any physical damage.

Maybe just synapses, maybe just nerves cross-talking, maybe just the brain reacting inexplicably. I would imagine it's those without actual damage that would see the most benefit; however, I wouldn't discount it being able to help those with severe acoustic trauma as well. I think the idea of creating new auditory pathways and "teaching" the brain to ignore the ones that no longer work might be the key to these types of treatments.

 

[Sironketchup]

So should I get some Ketamine and use my Lenire while in the K-Hole?

 

[Lukee]

So should I get some Ketamine and use my Lenire while in the K-Hole?

Absolutely.

***This is not medical advice***

 

[kingsfan]

Can someone here please try Ketamine and post on it?

I've spent like $5-10k so far and some external data points would really help me make an informed decision!

I will probably try Ketamine in about 6 weeks, depending on how my follow-up goes with UCI on the low-dose Nortriptyline thing they are having me try.

 

[Ehren M]

I will probably try Ketamine in about 6 weeks, depending on how my follow-up goes with UCI on the low-dose Nortriptyline thing they are having me try.

I'll be super interested to know about your experiences with all of these approaches!