DIY Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus on a Budget — LLLT Under 100,-

[Cityjohn]

I accidentally overdosed on modafinil - not known to be ototoxic- and this caused alot of blood to rush to my ears and eyes. I felt stabbing pains in both my ears, they were throbbing and became very hot. Tinnitus started since then and has never stopped despite stopping the drug. (1 year ago)

I experience hot, red and inflamed ears at least once a week. As of june this year I have been experiencing some hyperacusis, poor speech discrimination and an increase in the inflammation. (This was after a bad noise exposure)

It's very inspiring to see you take control of your situation, I hope your device proves to be effective.

I'm guessing that the issue is that inflammation has damaged the auditory nerve or connecting synapses in our cases. I'm just interested in why my tinnitus seems to be progressing when ever I expose myself to safe but loud sounds.

I feel for you. I guess I'm in a similar situation, I had opted to do my exam instead of calling an ambulance. If it had been my partner that was afflicted the most I wouldn't have hesitated...

My head was tingling, the skin was stretched, the inside of my skull was literally on fire, and I had also had burning eyes for a week. The stabbing in the ears is also something I had experiences, it really hurt and I wouldn't describe it any other way than sharp knives being pushed inside my ears.

There really isn't a safe sound level. A safe sound level is like a safe staircase, if you've lost a leg it's not so safe anymore.

 

[Marlino]

My Audiogram. Today my T is bad, so it seemed to interfere with the measurement.

 

[Marlino]

Actually I'm also inclined to see a connection to inflamation. But not in the brain in my case. Rather a chronic one in the ear. This might explain why many of us experience the T changing from day to day.
I see my ear as the culprit since yaw clenching can alter the T and I assume that tiny compressions of the dammaged cochlea are the reason.

 

[Vinnitus]

Actually I'm also inclined to see a connection to inflamation. But not in the brain in my case. Rather a chronic one in the ear. This might explain why many of us experience the T changing from day to day.
I see my ear as the culprit since yaw clenching can alter the T and I assume that tiny compressions of the dammaged cochlea are the reason.

Yes, I guess this inflammation can exist anywhere in the auditory system, which further increases the difficulty of proper diagnose and treatment.

If we are indeed dealing with some kind of (chronic) inflammation, this might imply that treatments like VNS, ACRN, rTMS and similar techniques are of temporary effect at best, because they are symptomatic treatments. The root cause, inflammation, isn't treated with any of these techniques.

The hyper-excited neurons might respond to the treatment and sound signals and could be lowering their hyperactivity for a while (perhaps by prioritizing the input sounds over the inflammatory response), but after some time the inflammation starts irritating them again after which their hyperactive response returns or gets prioritized once again, and hence the Tinnitus perception returns. This might also explain residual inhibition, where the Tinnitus isn't noticed for some time after certain auditory input.

After a while the irritated neuron cannot sustain it's function due to damage, resulting in cell-death, the release of new free-radicals attacking other healthy neurons and hence the sustaining Tinnitus perception. This process can go on and on, possibly resulting in neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's after decades.

Maybe LLLT is useful in the cases where the inflammatory response is (still) solely isolated to the inner ear.

All speculation of course. But to me it makes sense and could answer a lot of questions regarding T.

 

[Cityjohn]

The hyper-excited neurons might respond to the treatment and sound signals and could be lowering their hyperactivity for a while (perhaps by prioritizing the input sounds over the inflammatory response), but after some time the inflammation starts irritating them again after which their hyperactive response returns or gets prioritized once again, and hence the Tinnitus perception returns. This might also explain residual inhibition, where the Tinnitus isn't noticed for some time after certain auditory input.

It's a little more simple than that. The way neurons are structured prohibits them from immediate re-excitation. Residual inhibition is in fact a cause, not an effect.

After a while the irritated neuron cannot sustain it's function due to damage, resulting in cell-death, the release of new free-radicals attacking other healthy neurons and hence the sustaining Tinnitus perception. This process can go on and on, possibly resulting in neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's after decades.

A neuron in the auditory path of a healthy human being can in most, if not all cases, only die from over-stimulation and the subsequent glutamate induced apoptosis. An irritated neuron would remain irritated and hyperactive until it is either lost due to other reasons, or until the irritating agent is removed.

The mystery surrounding the cause of Alzheimer is a very suspicious one. I'm not in the least bit able to recognize how it could be caused by a neurological defect. There's quite a few (50+) institutes around the world that claim it is more likely a metabolic problem, or being caused by anti cholesterol medication. Since your brain is 75% cholesterol it seems like a really dumb idea to put something in your body that dissolves it. Alzheimer's is often preceded by a protein build up in the brain, for this reason it has been linked to traumatic brain injuries. Other than this there is little correlation between tinnitus and Alzheimer.

Inner ear LLLT seems not be effective in anyone who has tinnitus for quite a while. I speculated that the reason it may help people that are going to Dr. Wilden, is because his laser is powerful and leaks out onto the auditory cortex of the brain, possibly resolving inflammation there. My next LT device will be focused on that.

 

[Cityjohn]

Inflammation reduction with LLLT

To start off the next round I'll upload two relevant papers. I have not read them yet.

 

[Vinnitus]

@Cityjohn Thanks for getting back to me. You seem more knowledgable about this subject than I do.

The mystery surrounding the cause of Alzheimer is a very suspicious one. I'm not in the least bit able to recognize how it could be caused by a neurological defect. There's quite a few (50+) institutes around the world that claim it is more likely a metabolic problem, or being caused by anti cholesterol medication. Since your brain is 75% cholesterol it seems like a really dumb idea to put something in your body that dissolves it. Alzheimer's is often preceded by a protein build up in the brain, for this reason it has been linked to traumatic brain injuries. Other than this there is little correlation between tinnitus and Alzheimer.

Yes, my ideas about this were merely speculation based on studies/articles about the link between hearing loss and Alzheimer's (http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news...loss_linked_to_accelerated_brain_tissue_loss_) and the link between Alzheimer's and hyperactive neurons (http://neurosciencenews.com/alzheimers-hyperactive-neurons-3416/), of which hyperactive neurons appear to be involved with Tinnitus as well. But of course this might be a whole different area in the brain or they might not have any correlation at all. I'm just putting out some thoughts, which appeared to make sense based on the limited knowledge I currently possess on this subject.

Is the use of anti-cholesterol medication so prevalent nowadays as to cause a notable increase in the amount of Alzheimer cases? I agree the increase of Alzheimer's might perhaps have something to do with metabolism, maybe as consequence of the increase of artificial (less-nutritious) foods we consume nowadays.

Inner ear LLLT seems not be effective in anyone who has tinnitus for quite a while. I speculated that the reason it may help people that are going to Dr. Wilden, is because his laser is powerful and leaks out onto the auditory cortex of the brain, possibly resolving inflammation there. My next LT device will be focused on that.

I hope this is the case. It seems this needs proper handling for targeting the right parts of the auditory cortex specifically, which might increase difficulty or risk for DIY home treatments, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Do you still plan on making a device available through Tinnitustalk if you reach a sufficiently effective prototype?

Thanks again for your insights.

 

[Kane Moffat]

@Kane Moffat

Id say you develop good hearing. Its not H, its a measurable improvement in hearing.

But if you wear earplugs all day, do you not develop H?

I feel for you. I guess I'm in a similar situation, I had opted to do my exam instead of calling an ambulance. If it had been my partner that was afflicted the most I wouldn't have hesitated...

My head was tingling, the skin was stretched, the inside of my skull was literally on fire, and I had also had burning eyes for a week. The stabbing in the ears is also something I had experiences, it really hurt and I wouldn't describe it any other way than sharp knives being pushed inside my ears.

There really isn't a safe sound level. A safe sound level is like a safe staircase, if you've lost a leg it's not so safe anymore.

This sounds remarkably similar to what happened to me. Yes i agree about your point on sound levels. My threshold for damage now seem rediculously low. No one believes me when i say that a bar is loud enoughfor me to permanantly damage my hearing. That amount of sound has thus far proven to be dangerous- i feel like im alergic to sound or something its just crazy.

 

[ehrfried]

No you do not develoo H. I cannot believe that conservative Medivine is still believing that bullshit!

What you develop is similiar to: Imagine you spend a week in a dark room. Your eyes become sensitive to the weakest light..... but if you leave this room afterwards....for a few minutes everything will seem very bright. But thats it. IMO you will even improve your hearing (light sensitivity) in a positive way as your nerves get rest to recover!

By the way: Wilden describes this in his book (dgo_en.pdf)
You can download it from his website.

 

[Marlino]

I speculated that the reason it may help people that are going to Dr. Wilden, is because his laser is powerful and leaks out onto the auditory cortex of the brain, possibly resolving inflammation there.

Hard to belive for me. In this case you not only have to believe in LLLT but also in homeopathic, taking into acount the amout of light passing the skull.

 

[ehrfried]

Guys I have some news:

In terms of power, the machines of mr. kaiser are superior: 25 Watt of laser light shining into the ear.

The light is pulsed as 1500hz pulses are known (found out) to be most effective and the pulses are pulsed again so that there is some time in between for the tissue to cool down.

 

[Marlino]

Guys I have some news:

In terms of power, the machines of mr. kaiser are superior: 25 Watt of laser light shining into the ear.

The light is pulsed as 1500hz pulses are known (found out) to be most effective and the pulses are pulsed again so that there is some time in between for the tissue to cool down.

Good luck with your treatment, buddy!

 

[Reinier]

I speculated that the reason it may help people that are going to Dr. Wilden, is because his laser is powerful and leaks out onto the auditory cortex of the brain, possibly resolving inflammation there.

Not LLLT related, but brain inflammation related: http://hearinghealthfoundation.org/blog?blogid=246

 

[ehrfried]

I will leave the forum now for a while. i have been offline the last week and i feel a lot better. imho even though this forum is rather positive than others, it seems to me that every kind of group tends to be pessimistic for some reason. and also planless. e.g. no one on the forum ever discussed that there is a huge difference between wildens laser and kaisers one....

 

[Cityjohn]

I will leave the forum now for a while. i have been offline the last week and i feel a lot better. imho even though this forum is rather positive than others, it seems to me that every kind of group tends to be pessimistic for some reason. and also planless. e.g. no one on the forum ever discussed that there is a huge difference between wildens laser and kaisers one....

Please explain?

 

[Marlino]

He went to Mr. Kayser and is hopefully having good results. As far as I know first results are quite promising.

@ehrfried all the best buddy. Let the community know about the outcome. You are definitely neutral reporting and the community needs that

 

[Ecip]

I'm only a new member here and have read countless claims that LLLT does, or does not work.

In examining the research done it seems clear that there is a legitimate reaction from the human cell to light.
Everything is explained by the man himself on this website: http://photobiology.info/Hamblin.html

Now here's the kicker. If all the above is true it would mean that you would need either a badly produced standard laser diode (badly produced means a much broader spectrum than advertised), or a very expensive custom one tuned specifically to the chromophores in the body. 635, 650, and 808 are all industry standards, that's why the home lasers use these frequencies.

Since building a laser and using it myself is much cheaper than actually figuring out whether or not it works I've decided to do that. Anyone can do it and I've published the essential bill of essential materials and a place where you can buy them cheaply. I would have liked a much stronger 650/635 diode but they're not available here perhaps somebody could post a link with a website they trust.
I've been ordering off this website for a full year now, parcels keep trickling in, I've saved hundreds if not thousands on the same crap re-branded locally.

4x 808nm 300 mW Laser Diode 1.80 Euro's - LINK
4x 650nm 5mW Laser Diode 1.71 Euro's - LINK
1x LM317 stabilized voltage regulator 0-2A 1,25-28V (AKA special laser power source) 4.81 Euro's - LINK
2x Optical cable to stick in ears 1.40 Euro's - LINK
1x Multimeter for testing 7.79 Euro's - LINK
1x Arduino circuit board for programming and timing - LINK

That's it. 40,- Euro's in total. The rest like earplugs and the AC/DC power supplies you have laying around the house.
Far be it from me to say whether or not LLLT is a scam based on the main components. The truth is that if you add a fancy box and medical earphones that price will reach a few hundred and that happens to be the same price for the Lucky Laser.

To construct your laser you will have to mount the bits properly so that both the red and infrared laser are shining into one end of the cable at as shallow an angle as possible. The other side should be mounted to an earbud or placed into a foamy earplug. If that is done just turn it on, don't pulse it. The Arduino can be used to program a clock or pulses.
To test if the right amount of light is shining through to your ears keep in mind that the LLLT works with a maximum of 100mW/cm^2 so don't overdo it, you're going to want to use the multimeter to check if the laser diodes are not hogging more than twice that (both ears)
To check whether the infrared diode works point it straight at a webcam while on, it should light up quite brightly.

P.S I still need a source for powerful 635nm and 650nm laser diodes.

@Cityjohn
Can you build me one and mail it to me? 120v/60Hz please and thank you.

 

[Stakovic]

 

[Marlino]

----------------------periodical lllt user report:--------------------------------

- weeks since lllt begin: 7

- perceived tt level since last report:
Very changing in intensity. Had several a huge setbacks.
- change in tt description since last report:
None
- other relevant remarks:
I became sloppy after a setback 2 weeks ago with doing lllt.
I will do it again more from now on on a regular basis.

 

[Foncky]

@Cityjohn
Can you build me one and mail it to me? 120v/60Hz please and thank you.

I'd like it too
I don't feel like I'm able to build one myself.

It's that or the Lucky Laser ($$) or Wilden's ($$$$).

 

[Bobby B]

forget about lasers - those are better, safer and a lot cheaper




And for the mounting to ear muffs see what Pumkinate did on his thread

 

[Ecip]

Wouldn't a hot bath with your ears submerged essentially do the same thing?

 

[GregCA]

Wouldn't a hot bath with your ears submerged essentially do the same thing?

If that hot bath emits light with the proper wavelength in the direction of your cochlea, maybe...

 

[Foncky]

@Bobby B I might as well try that.

I know how to weld, that's an advantage. I'm just afraid to screw my ears with a DIY device but there's no reason really.

 

[Christian78]

forget about lasers - those are better, safer and a lot cheaper




And for the mounting to ear muffs see what Pumkinate did on his thread

how is this safer?

 

[Bobby B]

how is this safer?

How many people got hurt by led vs lasers ?

 

[Cityjohn]

Important:

how is this safer?

A 10 Watt Led spreads its power over a very wide wavelength range, ranging from 5000 to 6000 Angstrom.

A 10 Watt Laser does not spread it's wavelength and concentrates all light in 1 Angstrom, and is therefor saturating your skin with a single wavelength. Your skin will not be able to absorb or reflect all those photons. Hence a 10 Watt laser will burn through your head.

I thought I saw someone mentioning a 25 Watt laser above here... I'd like to point out that 250 Watt lasers can be used to blow up missiles ten miles away. I have a 250mW laser, and at full power trust me, it will start heating the skin by a lot.

To put it even further into perspective, we don't let physics undergraduates play with lasers over 90mW.

 

[MikeP505]

LLLT 101.

Easy 3 step process for LLLT.

Step 1: Purchase a couple of those adjustable desk lamps, preferably the ones that clip on the side of the desk and are adjustable via spring loaded arms. Pick up 2 typical LED lightbulbs while your getting your desk lamps. Install 2 LED bulbs into the lamps and clip onto your desk to the right and left of you.

Step 2: Point each lamp towards each ear. Get then close but not too close as even LED bulbs can get warm. Turn on both lamps.

Step 3. Continue using this method while surfing the web for other various treatments and help for this nasty tinnitus.

 

[MikeP505]

Hi Cityjohn, I have a suggestion that will only take a moment to institute

Now that's what I call getting WIRED!!

 

[Foncky]

Ok so guys, here's an idea following Mike's post.

Instead of a complete DIY 10w led solution, why not buying two of these :

It's a 10w led projector, and it's about 15$...

And two of these tripods (15-30$) :

What about :
- you buy these projectors and put them on these cheap tripods (you can also use cheap studio photography tripod)
- you put them on each side of your favorite sofa, so they're quite close to the ears
- you comfortably sit with a thick mask, so your eyes stay in the complete dark
- during the LLLT session, you just relax/meditate !

But does the led has to almost touch the ears ?

This process would save me thousands of dollars and is quite convenient (you can use the led AND the sofa for other things !), with no obvious danger : everyone can set up something like that.