DIY Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus on a Budget — LLLT Under 100,-

[ehrfried]

Btw guys:

I dare to say LLLT is a T cure. It just takes until the last crying cell is cured. Of course, in the mean time, the other cells improve as well. That's why many people see that their heaeing improves until T dissappears completely. It is also what Wilden said in his book.

 

[Cityjohn]

Treatment update;

I have continued my treatment with the Ear LED's lasting a total of 4 weeks. I have to say that the ear lasers have not been of any benefit what so ever to relieve my tinnitus. I can of course not speak as to my hearing or whether if it has improved because I need to perform another audiometry for that. This would agree with the fact that the ears do not have anything to do with sensorineuronal tinnitus, again I won't speak to cases of mechanical hypersensitive situations involving the stapes.

On my holiday I've spoken to some people with experience and came across an interesting hypothesis as to the usefulness of Dr. Wildens Ear Laser. When I get home I will order a laser just like his and I'll use it on one ear, and then on the head just above the ear.
It may well be that dura inflammation is causing tinnitus by applying pressure, and that Dr. Wildens laser is relieving the inflammation. Inflammation reduction has been a big topic here.

In summary I do not think the ear LED's have helped me that much since I still have the same spikes after alcohol and music, and the same levels of annoyance at night. The volume of my tinnitus is exactly the same, if not worse at this moment after coming home from a long trip. I would also find it unsurprising that my tinnitus is noticeably worse in a country with a higher barometric pressure.

Next I'll search for a laser with the right frequency and a more proper energy level for trans-cranial stimulation.

 

[gotyoubynuts]

On my holiday I've spoken to some people with experience and came across an interesting hypothesis as to the usefulness of Dr. Wildens Ear Laser. When I get home I will order a laser just like his and I'll use it on one ear, and then on the head just above the ear.

Has anyone opened up Dr Wilden's laser? What is the hardware? Does he buy the lasers from Alibaba for $5 and makes a profit?

Can't you replicate Dr Wilden's laser? It can't be hard

Can you explain why you think it might be effective but other lasers not?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

there is zero reason for his to work and not others. his hardware is probably not very expensive and it all boils down to name recognition and it being fitted to your ears.

all tinnitus devices are overpriced. wildly so.

 

[Alue]

there is zero reason for his to work and not others. his hardware is probably not very expensive and it all boils down to name recognition and it being fitted to your ears.

all tinnitus devices are overpriced. wildly so.

Perhaps Dr. Wildens Special Ear Laser has a strong placebo effect.

 

[Bobby B]

Like I said before - the best approach is to use high power near infrared LED in the 10w range , it's very cheap and safer than lasers and will penetrate deep. Lasers can focus a lot of heat in one spot.

I have a clear case of inner ear injury due to sound waves caused by firearms so in my case light therapy helps - my T has decreased a lot recently I don't need masking to sleep , my hearing range is better and H is down a lot .

But I have been doing it a lot, using high power light sources for over 8 months so it takes a lot of time .

As for cityjohn his T is not caused by inner ear injury so it's more complicated and LT may not be of benefit at all. Same goes for people with anxiety related T or what they describe as "unknown "

 

[Ears Hurt]

I've been using the red LED similar to @Cityjohn for about the same amount of time. I think my start was a week behind his start of the LED treatment. I haven't found any improvement in T so far; it does fluctuate more than it used too. I did find improvement in H. I am able to turn the water on now without it hurting my ears. I am also able to use the microwave without pain in my ears. I can load and unload the dishwasher. I still have sensitivity to some things like clipping my nails, which still makes me cringe. I still haven't tried vacuuming yet, which is my nightmare.

 

[Reinier]

You lucky people.
I do not notice any improvement what-so-ever
I started close to three months ago. I am not monitoring hearing threshold because I do not think that will change with LLLT. Also if there should be change in hearing threshold I will notice this in everyday life. So far the only positive thing is that the therapy is 20 minutes of relaxation on a day.
I will continue. Perhaps in a couple of months something will be different.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@Bobby B - you have said many times that LLLT doesn't really work for T and also that it has helped your T. I'm a bit confused.

 

[Cityjohn]

Has anyone opened up Dr Wilden's laser? What is the hardware? Does he buy the lasers from Alibaba for $5 and makes a profit?

Can't you replicate Dr Wilden's laser? It can't be hard

Can you explain why you think it might be effective but other lasers not?

I've really already explained those things multiple times in this thread. It comes down to frequency response, stimulation period, location of incidence, and the fact that we can't easily reproduce every frequency in the spectrum.
Replicating Wilden's laser is easy and it will cost me around 250,- E and a couple evenings work.

there is zero reason for his to work and not others. his hardware is probably not very expensive and it all boils down to name recognition and it being fitted to your ears.

all tinnitus devices are overpriced. wildly so.

Dr. Wilden uses a Helium-Neon laser tube in his device, no home laser device is an actual laser. The main difference is that he focuses all power in a spectral line that according to literature has a much higher effectiveness on the human mitochondria. It cost him a thousand Euro's at best to order it custom made from an engineering firm.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@Cityjohn thanks for clarifying. does anyone else use something similar ? Harila et al ?

 

[GregCA]

Next I'll search for a laser with the right frequency and a more proper energy level for trans-cranial stimulation.

Apparently the combination of LLLT and rTMS may be required for efficacy.

 

[Bobby B]

@Bobby B - you have said many times that LLLT doesn't really work for T and also that it has helped your T. I'm a bit confused.

It's not a cure for T but it may reduce it a bit perhaps if you have "repairable " inner ear damage that is recent enough
It does help with H and sound distortion , hearing range as reported by many . T is a lot harder to fix

 

[ehrfried]

Of course it is a cure for T as well as I wrote above, as it a has the same offspring that is treated with the LLLT: A wound in the inner ear.

And of course T takes the longest time to cure. Reason is also in my above post.

 

[ehrfried]

By the way I have a question:
Is the Ti-ex device utilizing rTMS?

How does rTMS work? What is the effect of it on our cells?


Another question: Why not inffuencing the hearing nerves' electrical field so that they can easily release all the potassium ions outside their membrane. This should make it a whole lot easier for them to repair themselves. However, we would not be able to hear anything during that treatment. (Actually thiscould be used as a noise canceling technique )'

 

[Kane Moffat]

@ehrfried,

If you wore ear pugs all day to reduce sound, did you not develop sound sensitivity?

@Cityjohn, i think we had similar reasons for getting T my auditory nerve was inflamed for a short time as well. Do you experience poor speech in background discrimination or distorted hearing? You think your laser can help this?

 

[Cityjohn]

@Cityjohn, i think we had similar reasons for getting T my auditory nerve was inflamed for a short time as well. Do you experience poor speech in background discrimination or distorted hearing? You think your laser can help this?

Why was your auditory nerve inflamed? Did you experience other symptoms like throbbing, hotness, etc?
I do believe I have notably poorer speech recognition as I noticed asking my partner "WHAT?" seven times daily since our lovely experience. Sound distortion is not something I have experienced, not even in the slightest.

I'm certain LT can stimulate cell growth and central nerve growth. But uncertain as to the extent of it. The major problem I am facing is whether it is of use at all when tissues in and around the auditory system are inflamed. A brain inflammation can last for 20 years. The secondary problem is how to get enough light where we need it to go, which is the problem I've been working on for several weeks to a month.

At the moment I am going to experiment with multiple anti inflammatory drugs to see if I can illicit a response in my T.

 

[Path Maker]

A brain inflammation can last for 20 years.

Hey @Cityjohn - good to see you back and hope your vacation had some fun times in it too!

Can you add anything to your statement about "can last 20 years"?

I definitely believe that anything that brings down overall bodily inflammation (which I think many of us have to a lesser or greater extent, and much of it is simply tolerated as "aches and pains") can affect health conditions in a positive way.

Anything specific you are using?

I have found that I feel much better overall by having cut out gluten and dairy. I'm also looking at other ways to strategically and systematically reduce overall inflammation, without throwing a whole bunch of stuff into me willy nilly all at once.

Your thoughts, please? I always respect what you're thinking! Thanks!!

 

[Cityjohn]

Hey @Cityjohn - good to see you back and hope your vacation had some fun times in it too!

Can you add anything to your statement about "can last 20 years"?

I definitely believe that anything that brings down overall bodily inflammation (which I think many of us have to a lesser or greater extent, and much of it is simply tolerated as "aches and pains") can affect health conditions in a positive way.

Anything specific you are using?

I have found that I feel much better overall by having cut out gluten and dairy. I'm also looking at other ways to strategically and systematically reduce overall inflammation, without throwing a whole bunch of stuff into me willy nilly all at once.

Your thoughts, please? I always respect what you're thinking! Thanks!!

Thank you for the warm welcome back. It was great, in fact I had noticed that my tinnitus and headache are both considerably reduced at 2000m above sea level.

A chronic inflammation in the human brain seems to be a very complex condition. I still have very little idea about how it works but it seems that different regions of the brain can become inflamed in series. This affliction can last for decades. A paper to give some insight on this is the following; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4666189/

The reason I'm so interested in this is because all the success stories I've heard on this forum are either due to inflammation reduction or age. I had further discussed my problem on holiday with several people and they too mentioned that tinnitus is an inflammation problem.
I also observe that my noticeable acute symptoms were clearly due to a massive inflammation in my head. To such a degree in fact that my eardrums where either being pulled into my head, or my head was slightly larger than normal for the first month after my poisoning. Something three doctors overlooked, the third one saying he was absolutely sure that my auditory tube was blocked. After I told him it wasn't because I can blow air up my tubes, and then mentioned possible inflammation, he threw his hands up and said "well then I don't know".

To test whether reducing inflammation can help me I will be trying Clemastine and Diclofenac first, and then possibly move on to others. These are already quite strong, usually in use in hospitals. I'll have to find a proper moment in time and work out a correct dose that leaves me able to do my work.

 

[Alue]

At the moment I am going to experiment with multiple anti inflammatory drugs to see if I can illicit a response in my T.

Aren't a lot of anti inflammatory drugs tinnitus inducing?

I've been wanting to ask you... Do you know much about ion channels in neurons? I think of tinnitus (and hyperacusis) as a extreme hyperactivity of networks of auditory neurons. What causes this hyperactivity can vary, but the result is the same. This is somewhat supported by the medications that can (temporarily) reduce tinnitus. Retigabine (a potassium channel opener) can temporarily reduce tinnitus, lidocane a sodium channel blocker can also reduce tinnitus. From my basic understanding sodium ion channels have an excitatory effect, whereas potassium channels have a calming effect on cells or return them to their resting state. If that's the case why can't these networks of neurons calm down and stay calmed, why is tinnitus so permanent? Is it because of the loss of connection that causes this hyperactivity? Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Path Maker]

The reason I'm so interested in this is because all the success stories I've heard on this forum are either due to inflammation reduction or age.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, as usual!

When you speak of "age," are you meaning that the success stories are in younger people? Or that advancing age means longer time elapsed (in an older person) and therefore inflammation processes decreasing with advancing age? Just a bit unclear as to what you meant ...

 

[PatrickG]

@Cityjohn could a cortison treatment reduce T you think (temporarely)?

 

[ehrfried]

@Kane Moffat

Id say you develop good hearing. Its not H, its a measurable improvement in hearing.

 

[Marlino]

-----------------------periodical lllt user report:--------------------------------

- weeks since lllt begin: 4

- perceived tt level since last report:
3 bad days in last 2 weeks, rest not bothering (1-3)
- change in tt description since last report:
None
- other relevant remarks:
I would be convinced of the benefit of lllt yet if there weren't the bad days as well.
Audiogram follows.

 

[Vinnitus]

Interesting thread. I also have been pondering that Tinnitus might in fact be some kind of chronic brain inflammation or a chronic inflammation of the auditory pathways. If you imagine that noise-exposure causes cell-death in various locations in the auditory system, and cell-death releases free-radicals like glutamate, it maybe isn't far fetched to think this can cause some kind of ongoing chain reaction in the brain or auditory nerve. Maybe the hyper-excitation of neurons in the brain is actually caused by some inflammatory reaction due to cell-death and consequently the release of free radicals attacking other cells.

The hypothesized link between hearing loss/tinnitus potentially leading to Alzheimer's disease also seems consistent with this idea.

http://neurosciencenews.com/alzheimers-hyperactive-neurons-3416/

My thread about it: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperactive-neurons-linked-to-alzheimers.17279/

@Cityjohn As you know Dutch, I found some anecdotal evidence on the Dutch Tinnitus forum where someone used Diclofenac and found that it (temporarily) reduced his or her Tinnitus. Maybe this can be of some interest.

http://forum.nvvs.nl/forum/tinnitus/viewtopic.php?t=4721

 

[Path Maker]

Interesting thread. I also have been pondering that Tinnitus might in fact be some kind of chronic brain inflammation or a chronic inflammation of the auditory pathways. If you imagine that noise-exposure causes cell-death in various locations in the auditory system, and cell-death releases free-radicals like glutamate, it maybe isn't far fetched to think this can cause some kind of ongoing chain reaction in the brain or auditory nerve. Maybe the hyper-excitation of neurons in the brain is actually caused by some inflammatory reaction due to cell-death and consequently the release of free radicals attacking other cells.

I think this is a very sound theory. I have thought the same way.

It may be similar to any chronic inflammation that causes either constant or intermittent (flare-ups, remissions) symptoms, similar to back pain, tendonitis, etc., except that it's central-nervous-system based, and of course involves the auditory system, and so comes with its own peculiar symptoms (freaking ringing!).

 

[Vinnitus]

I think this is a very sound theory. I have thought the same way.

It may be similar to any chronic inflammation that causes either constant or intermittent (flare-ups, remissions) symptoms, similar to back pain, tendonitis, etc., except that it's central-nervous-system based, and of course involves the auditory system, and so comes with its own peculiar symptoms (freaking ringing!).

Yes, it might also explain the increase of Tinnitus in some as time progresses. This might be caused by the chain reaction spreading to other cells causing further hyper-excitation of neurons. And who knows, maybe that in turn is linked to the development of Alzheimer's disease like I speculate in the link below...

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...-gives-tantalising-results.17213/#post-202132

This speculation is by no means scientific... But it kind of makes sense, doesn't it?

 

[Kane Moffat]

Why was your auditory nerve inflamed? Did you experience other symptoms like throbbing, hotness, etc?
I do believe I have notably poorer speech recognition as I noticed asking my partner "WHAT?" seven times daily since our lovely experience. Sound distortion is not something I have experienced, not even in the slightest.

I'm certain LT can stimulate cell growth and central nerve growth. But uncertain as to the extent of it. The major problem I am facing is whether it is of use at all when tissues in and around the auditory system are inflamed. A brain inflammation can last for 20 years. The secondary problem is how to get enough light where we need it to go, which is the problem I've been working on for several weeks to a month.

At the moment I am going to experiment with multiple anti inflammatory drugs to see if I can illicit a response in my T.

I accidentally overdosed on modafinil - not known to be ototoxic- and this caused alot of blood to rush to my ears and eyes. I felt stabbing pains in both my ears, they were throbbing and became very hot. Tinnitus started since then and has never stopped despite stopping the drug. (1 year ago)

I experience hot, red and inflamed ears at least once a week. As of june this year I have been experiencing some hyperacusis, poor speech discrimination and an increase in the inflammation. (This was after a bad noise exposure)

It's very inspiring to see you take control of your situation, I hope your device proves to be effective.

I'm guessing that the issue is that inflammation has damaged the auditory nerve or connecting synapses in our cases. I'm just interested in why my tinnitus seems to be progressing when ever I expose myself to safe but loud sounds.

 

[Cityjohn]

Aren't a lot of anti inflammatory drugs tinnitus inducing?

I've been wanting to ask you... Do you know much about ion channels in neurons? I think of tinnitus (and hyperacusis) as a extreme hyperactivity of networks of auditory neurons. What causes this hyperactivity can vary, but the result is the same. This is somewhat supported by the medications that can (temporarily) reduce tinnitus. Retigabine (a potassium channel opener) can temporarily reduce tinnitus, lidocane a sodium channel blocker can also reduce tinnitus. From my basic understanding sodium ion channels have an excitatory effect, whereas potassium channels have a calming effect on cells or return them to their resting state. If that's the case why can't these networks of neurons calm down and stay calmed, why is tinnitus so permanent? Is it because of the loss of connection that causes this hyperactivity? Is there something I'm missing?

The drugs solutions main purpose is symptom elevation. It will not cure the actual cause but instead alter the electrical properties of neurons in your entire brain which if you ask me is a very stupid idea. If for example you've destroyed too many cells and the naturally filtering has been upset, you can either regrow neurons, or change the electrical properties.
Another very simple way to cause hyperactivity is to apply pressure on the neurons since this changes the volume of the ion pumps crossing the membrane. Yet another is to mess up the GABA-Glutamate metabolism in the body, permanently changing the way it is distributed within the brain causing the same ringing you'd temporarily have after a loud concert, albeit more permanently. The heterogeneity of tinnitus is not so complex once you start with the basic functioning of the neuron and simply look at all the physical changes in its environment that can cause hyperactivity.

Someone mentioned why I would want to excite the cells more using LT in this thread and I think I had forgotten to answer. The simple answer is that even though some cells in the ear are stimulated to transmit more easily, the main goal is to stimulate cell growth countering the thinning of neurons, and subsequent internode filtering in the auditory system.

As for anti inflammatory drugs, I'll use these to see if my massive headache and tinnitus go away, and to see if both are correlated. If so I can discuss it with a medical doctor and hopefully we can resolve the issue by investigating what causes the inflammation and removing it.

 

[Cityjohn]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, as usual!

When you speak of "age," are you meaning that the success stories are in younger people? Or that advancing age means longer time elapsed (in an older person) and therefore inflammation processes decreasing with advancing age? Just a bit unclear as to what you meant ...

Sorry for being a bit unclear I meant advancing age. Which to me seems to point either to more loss of neurons and hence less tinnitus, or the inflammation being resolved.

@Cityjohn could a cortison treatment reduce T you think (temporarely)?

Honestly I'm not quite sure how steroids work but I gather they work much the same way as they do in a epidural injection when someone has back pains. The injection will numb the nerves and thus silence them. In the epidural this is a temporary solution lasting up to six months.