Do You Own a Gun?

[Telis]

Hi! Clueless European here!
What are the chances that someone breaks in and you can successfully defend yourself (with a gun)?

Over here, both chances are pretty limited. And if someone does break in, I'll just hide in the bathroom or attic with my phone until the police are here. I could go after a burglar with a kitchen knife or something, but considering that I'd just woken up in the middle of the night and still feeling hazy, I'd have no chance against a well-rested burglar.

Don't worry, you won't feel hazy, your adrenaline will wake you up in about 1 second.

 

[pef]

Hi! Clueless European here!
What are the chances that someone breaks in and you can successfully defend yourself (with a gun)?

Over here, both chances are pretty limited. And if someone does break in, I'll just hide in the bathroom or attic with my phone until the police are here. I could go after a burglar with a kitchen knife or something, but considering that I'd just woken up in the middle of the night and still feeling hazy, I'd have no chance against a well-rested burglar.

Chances are slim, but it happens very often. Multiple people in the US use guns to thwart attackers.

 

[pef]

Since my onset of T I have thought about this as well, but I would not hesitate to use a gun in self defense if my life were in danger.

One option is to have some electronic muffs handy, e.g., near where you store your gun. You will still have sound wearing them, but the sound is electronically capped. However, if it is a life and death situation, you will likely not have time to put those on nor should you be trying to.

I will not trust my life to the benevolence of a thief. As for death versus further hearing damage, if that is your choice, fine, but don't expect the person that is killing you will give you a swift and merciful death. He may make it last a while, or he may leave you with brain damage, or any number of permanent, quality-of-life destroying injuries. There are some sick, evil people out there.

 

[linearb]

Chances are slim, but it happens very often. Multiple people in the US use guns to thwart attackers.

Yup. I think what's a lot harder to answer is, "am I, personally, better or worse off if I keep a loaded gun around?" It's delicate. If you have a gun in a locked box, with ammo in a separate locked box, you are very unlikely to be able to use it defensively, and you are also not especially likely to have a tragedy result from having it. On the other hand, if you have a loaded handgun sitting on your nightstand, you're much more likely to be able to use it defensively, but it's also more likely to end badly if a curious child sneaks into your bedroom, or you pick it up when you're thinking less than completely clearly.

The US has a lot of guns, enough that people who live in less armed societies might rightly think we're a little bonkers because of it. Because there are so many gun owners, it's pretty trivial to find anecdotes where people used them defensively to great success, and it's also trivial to find anecdotes where people are needlessly killed, or where someone who owns a gun for defensive purposes uses one aggressively in a fit of rage. Of course, when someone is in a blind fury, a kitchen knife or a hammer can also be quite lethal.

Basically, whenever anyone tries to use statistics to convince me that either they are safer for having a gun, or safer for not having anything to do with guns, I tend to think that they have some kind of hidden agenda that they are using high-school math to rationalize, and that's pretty much always the case.

I don't have a horse in this race. I've discharged a lot of firearms. It's a hell of a lot of fun. I personally would not be comfortable keeping a loaded gun in an easily accessible area, but then I also live in an incredibly safe area. If I lived in the worst parts of the Detroit Metro Wasteland, I might feel differently.

 

[pef]

Solution - use it as a scare tactic, don't put bullets in it.

If they try to approach you, PISTOL WHIP THEM

Ask me if you need advice on anything else friend

Not a bad plan, but only if there is a single home invader that is acting rationally, is relatively docile, and himself is unarmed. If the home invader has a killer instinct, or is a meth head or otherwise not in a rational state of mind, you may be a dead man, especially if the home invader is armed with a knife (or more), or has an accomplice.

Going hand-to-hand with a home invader is a dicey situation, especially if you do not have hand-to-hand training and do not know how to fight.

 

[linearb]

Something that really crystallized my view on this was reading an account of a horrific home invasion, captured on video, where people entered from multiple places at the same time, and shot all the occupants in a matter of seconds.

In that scenario, even if you had a loaded gun on your person, it might not do you much good unless you were in a state of chronic awareness, constantly scanning your environment for threats, even when you were relaxing in your own home. Otherwise, by the time you think "oh shit it's happening, better start shooting", you're already dead.

So, for me it's a question of: do I want to live my whole life in a constant state of fear, being prepared for the absolute worst at any moment, or do I want to accept the very small risk of a sudden violent injury in exchange for being able to live my life normally without constantly assuming every small sudden noise is the sound of a glock being aimed at my head?

I also don't think the risk calculus that a lot of hardcore gun owners subscribe to, is very accurate. That is, violent crime is lower on the list of things that typically kill you in the US compared to cancer, heart disease, automobiles, etc. Yet, many people will keep a loaded gun around, but also continue to smoke, eat red meat, drive cars in city traffic, etc. I fully believe (and this shows my bias and rationalization) that for some people, the illusion of being able to protect oneself with a gun, is a cognitive trick they are employing to try to feel in control of their own inevitable death...

 

[pef]

Something that really crystallized my view on this was reading an account of a horrific home invasion, captured on video, where people entered from multiple places at the same time, and shot all the occupants in a matter of seconds.

In that scenario, even if you had a loaded gun on your person, it might not do you much good unless you were in a state of chronic awareness, constantly scanning your environment for threats, even when you were relaxing in your own home. Otherwise, by the time you think "oh shit it's happening, better start shooting", you're already dead.

So, for me it's a question of: do I want to live my whole life in a constant state of fear, being prepared for the absolute worst at any moment, or do I want to accept the very small risk of a sudden violent injury in exchange for being able to live my life normally without constantly assuming every small sudden noise is the sound of a glock being aimed at my head?

I also don't think the risk calculus that a lot of hardcore gun owners subscribe to, is very accurate. That is, violent crime is lower on the list of things that typically kill you in the US compared to cancer, heart disease, automobiles, etc. Yet, many people will keep a loaded gun around, but also continue to smoke, eat red meat, drive cars in city traffic, etc. I fully believe (and this shows my bias and rationalization) that for some people, the illusion of being able to protect oneself with a gun, is a cognitive trick they are employing to try to feel in control of their own inevitable death...

You raise some valid points. One is far more likely to die from heart disease than from being the victim of a violent crime. And yet few take the simple precaution of just doing a little exercise to maintain a baseline level of health.

As for multiple home invaders, well, if you are going to be the victim of a hit, there's really not much you can do. Face it, if someone really wants you dead, you're likely going to be dead. You cannot have full SA all the time. It's impossible. So I try not to engage in activities that would result in people wanting me dead (e.g., drug trafficking, human smuggling, etc.).

I view the gun as a last-resort tool. It does not make me safer; it is merely a tool at my disposal if all else has failed.

 

[linearb]

I view the gun as a last-resort tool. It does not make me safer; it is merely a tool at my disposal if all else has failed.

Yup, this is the view that most of my defensive gun-owning friends take. I'm totally fine with people owning guns as long as they're responsible with them.

 

[jimH]

Since my onset of T I have thought about this as well, but I would not hesitate to use a gun in self defense if my life were in danger.

I agree with you and @gary...and only as a last resort. I have laser sights on my my pistols. If there was sufficient time, I would use them to try to scare them off first before firing.

Once they realized that there was an illuminated red dot on their chest, they just might be persuaded to turn around and leave. That's what I would hope for. I wouldn't fire the weapon if they gave any indication that they had decided to do just that. ONLY, if after seeing that I was armed with pistols with laser sights and they kept coming at me with a weapon, would I shoot.

 

[gary]

I agree with you and @gary...and only as a last resort. I have laser sights on my my pistols. If there was sufficient time, I would use them to try to scare them off first before firing.

Once they realized that there was an illuminated red dot on their chest, they just might be persuaded to turn around and leave. That's what I would hope for. I wouldn't fire the weapon if they gave any indication that they had decided to do just that. ONLY, if after seeing that I was armed with pistols with laser sights and they kept coming at me with a weapon, would I shoot.

Yes, I see you live in the US, I am not to far from Detroit and we are starting to have home invasions, car jacking, robberies, actually 2 businesses with in walking distance from me were robbed during the day at gun point.

Unfortunate, but that's the way it is. I, like you Jim, would try at all costs not to shoot. If all else fails as you outline in you're scenario, then shoot to kill if intruder has a weapon. I protect my family above all else.