Ear Crunch Following Sudden Noises? Anyone? Please Help Me Diagnose!

[maz1]

Hi All,

I've had tinnitus for the better part of a year and now I have a new and more painful affliction. I am hoping that someone else can shed some light on my newest ear condition:

When I hear a sudden sound, plates, people speaking close by, my own voice, or following any other abrupt sound I have a spasm like 'crunch' in my ear.

This painful 'crunch' feeling (that of sounds like a 'woop' in my ear) occurs following the noise.

For example:
If I speak a full sentence loud enough, following the completion of the last word I will experience what feels like a 'crunch' spasm inside my ear.

The 'crunch'/spasm and pain always follows the offending sound and is never occurs at the same time as the sound.

My Oto. Dr has proposed cutting either the stapedius or the Tympani (I cannot recall which).

I wanted to get some feedback to see if any other have had or have heard of such an issue?

Comments welcome

 

[Nick Pyzik]

Hi All,

I've had tinnitus for the better part of a year and now I have a new and more painful affliction. I am hoping that someone else can shed some light on my newest ear condition:

When I hear a sudden sound, plates, people speaking close by, my own voice, or following any other abrupt sound I have a spasm like 'crunch' in my ear.

This painful 'crunch' feeling (that of sounds like a 'woop' in my ear) occurs following the noise.

For example:
If I speak a full sentence loud enough, following the completion of the last word I will experience what feels like a 'crunch' spasm inside my ear.

The 'crunch'/spasm and pain always follows the offending sound and is never occurs at the same time as the sound.

My Oto. Dr has proposed cutting either the stapedius or the Tympani (I cannot recall which).

I wanted to get some feedback to see if any other have had or have heard of such an issue?

Comments welcome

Maz, have you ever tried plugging your nose and popping your "ears"? I believe what you are hearing is the movement of your Eustachian Tube. I also hear a crunching noise when sounds around me happen. I usually don't even pay attention to it anymore. If you try blowing air out of your "ears", you should be able to hear a similar crunching/popping noise just like the one that happens after noises go off around you.

I also don't like the sounds of having those two areas of the inner ear cut. What did your Oto have to say about why you should cut either one?

 

[lapidus]

Hi All,

I've had tinnitus for the better part of a year and now I have a new and more painful affliction. I am hoping that someone else can shed some light on my newest ear condition:

When I hear a sudden sound, plates, people speaking close by, my own voice, or following any other abrupt sound I have a spasm like 'crunch' in my ear.

This painful 'crunch' feeling (that of sounds like a 'woop' in my ear) occurs following the noise.

For example:
If I speak a full sentence loud enough, following the completion of the last word I will experience what feels like a 'crunch' spasm inside my ear.

The 'crunch'/spasm and pain always follows the offending sound and is never occurs at the same time as the sound.

My Oto. Dr has proposed cutting either the stapedius or the Tympani (I cannot recall which).

I wanted to get some feedback to see if any other have had or have heard of such an issue?

Comments welcome

Sounds like Tonic Tensor Tympani Syndrome. There are people on the H network that have reported both good and bad results after having surgery. I think surgery should be the very last resort since not enough is known yet about this condition and it's causes. Maybe @japongus can give you some answers. He's pretty informed about this.

 

[japongus]

Hi All,

I've had tinnitus for the better part of a year and now I have a new and more painful affliction. I am hoping that someone else can shed some light on my newest ear condition:

When I hear a sudden sound, plates, people speaking close by, my own voice, or following any other abrupt sound I have a spasm like 'crunch' in my ear.

This painful 'crunch' feeling (that of sounds like a 'woop' in my ear) occurs following the noise.

For example:
If I speak a full sentence loud enough, following the completion of the last word I will experience what feels like a 'crunch' spasm inside my ear.

The 'crunch'/spasm and pain always follows the offending sound and is never occurs at the same time as the sound.

My Oto. Dr has proposed cutting either the stapedius or the Tympani (I cannot recall which).

I wanted to get some feedback to see if any other have had or have heard of such an issue?

Comments welcome

I'm not sure if I have this issue, but I've been told by a neurotologist that I could as a have pretty deep thumps to sound. If he saw it with his otoscope on your eardrum then he probably suggested cutting the tympani, but if he saw something on an impedance test he might have suggested the stapedius. Mine saw neither and still suggested cutting them, and though he has some experience with this and I was recommended him by other happy customers and he's well published in pulsatile tinnitus academic literature, I'm not sure how much. Was it like I said it was?

This painful 'crunch' feeling (that of sounds like a 'woop' in my ear) occurs following the noise.

For example:
If I speak a full sentence loud enough, following the completion of the last word I will experience what feels like a 'crunch' spasm inside my ear.

Wow, after the last sentence? That's not something I was aware of. Mine has a latency, but it still is pretty much alongside the external sound. That's not something I'd heard about before but it may very well be common.

The chat-hyperacusis forum has experiences from people with definite myoclonus if you're interested were operated and were very happy with the op, if you search for lib or JoeM or mk and plenty others, others who tried the operation like supersmooth and the thumping didn't stop, and others who had more odder symptoms before op and complained about worsening in the op, like astrid.

It might be a good idea to read academic literature and the experiences of those forum members to get an idea. I had one patient who though extremely happy that her myoclonus type of sound sensitivity had disappeared now, sometime later, had autophony from possible patulous eustachian tubes, though I'm not sure if it was from the operation and it seemed to have been acquired sometime later. And that may be an issue with the tensor tympani I dunno. Generally with definite myoclonus, the academic literature is pretty positive about tenotomies, but they do tend to suggest drugs before the operation. And my neurotologist suggested amitryptiline, which I have not yet taken because I forgot to detail that I have a weak esophageal sphincter...

 

[Mithrandir]

@lapidus @japongus

I have questions about the surgery for TTTS, did you read some report/experience ? Have you a link ?

Thanks.

 

[lapidus]

@lapidus @japongus

I have questions about the surgery for TTTS, did you read some report/experience ? Have you a link ?

Thanks.

Well, I just did a search on the H network and found these two threads, but japongus is much more informed than me about this.

http://www.chat-hyperacusis.net/post/failed-surgeries-1076268?highlight=surgery

http://www.chat-hyperacusis.net/pos...lonus-after-surgery-2417302?highlight=surgery

 

[Mithrandir]

@japongus I have 15 drops of amitryptiline each night, it's not so bad ;-P

 

[japongus]

@lapidus @japongus

I have questions about the surgery for TTTS, did you read some report/experience ? Have you a link ?

Thanks.

I've read the testimonies from people on chat-hyperacusis, I went through their user accounts and threads, emailed a few of them too, and I've looked it up on google and libgen.io/scimag, with search terms like ''middle ear myoclonus'' or ''middle myoclonus'' and so on, and you get a few that talk fairly ambiguously of things like subjective hyperacusis when they're looking for myoclonus, so I'm not sure which is hyperacusis and which is myoclonus. And as a starter, I read dizziness-and-balance.com and hyperacusisfocus.org to get a sense of the basics.

 

[japongus]

Well, I just did a search on the H network and found these two threads, but japongus is much more informed than me about this.

http://www.chat-hyperacusis.net/post/failed-surgeries-1076268?highlight=surgery

http://www.chat-hyperacusis.net/pos...lonus-after-surgery-2417302?highlight=surgery

Astrid, who starts the first thread, no doubt cast a cold veil over operating sound-provoked thumps, but Lib who intervenes in many other interesting threads, was convinced something must have gone wrong with Astrid's surgery. And because we don't know where astrid went, maybe even banned by Rob, the born-again sound therapist that moderates the forum, I'm not sure if she was permanently damaged by the op or only temporarily so, as she implies both things.

Supersmooth doesn't seem to talk so much about sensibility but about sound-independent thumps.

The biggest study on myoclonus is made by a bunch of south koreans, and they seem to possibly be treating both kinds. And I'm quite sure Lib and JoeM had both kinds. And I have a suspicion from reading a couple of myoclonus academic articles that if a tendon vibrates fast enough, it can melt into a continuous sound instead of discontinuous.

 

[Saadc]

Hello maz1

I have the same condition : a crunch noise feeling that occurs actually during the noise and being heard right after the noise (my own speech, voices, loud noises,..)
This crunch noise feeling also occurs when I m touching slightly my ear (targus) or the zone near my ears (Could you do that as well?).
It starts with my left ear, but now this is mainly the right one.

I have also some distorsion (blown effect speaker) in one ear when I hear very loud continious noises (Like music).
My own voice seems weird to me, like a robot voice, I feel my auditory system vibrates when I am talking and this is very unpleasant.
I feel also a pressure near my nose and ears.

I have had this for 1.5 years. I have been to a lot of ENT, no one could really heal me.
I'm not sure this is Myoclonus (As some people cut all the tendons and still hear this crunchy noise).

Even healthy people have stapedius contraction when they are about to talk. The difference is that we hear this contraction.

I have also autophony when I'm doing tennis.
For my case, I think this could be :

- Diplacusis
- Minor syndrom (Dehiscence of the canal)
- Patulous eustachian Tube.
- Paralymphatic fistula
- Dysfunction of stapedius/tensor tympani (but not myoclonus)
-Sinus issues

 

[Mithrandir]

Hello Saad I think I've already talk with you on french Facebook page...

Did you make a CT-Scan ?

Do you want to cut your tendons in the ears ?

 

[Saadc]

Hey mithrandir
Î'm planning to visit Dr Venail
As my ear racts also to touch (with the very same crunchy organic sound), I m not really keen to cut my tendons: I want to be properly diagnosed first

 

[Mithrandir]

@Saadc

When will you go to visit Dr Venail ? Did you made ct-scan ?

 

[japongus]

Hello maz1

I have the same condition : a crunch noise feeling that occurs actually during the noise and being heard right after the noise (my own speech, voices, loud noises,..)
This crunch noise feeling also occurs when I m touching slightly my ear (targus) or the zone near my ears (Could you do that as well?).
It starts with my left ear, but now this is mainly the right one.

I have also some distorsion (blown effect speaker) in one ear when I hear very loud continious noises (Like music).
My own voice seems weird to me, like a robot voice, I feel my auditory system vibrates when I am talking and this is very unpleasant.
I feel also a pressure near my nose and ears.

Yours is the same as maz1 in the sense that after the sound finishes the contraction themselves start is what you're saying? During the external sound you have no contraction?

I have had this for 1.5 years. I have been to a lot of ENT, no one could really heal me.
I'm not sure this is Myoclonus (As some people cut all the tendons and still hear this crunchy noise).

Even healthy people have stapedius contraction when they are about to talk. The difference is that we hear this contraction.

I have also autophony when I'm doing tennis.
For my case, I think this could be :

- Diplacusis
- Minor syndrom (Dehiscence of the canal)
- Patulous eustachian Tube.
- Paralymphatic fistula
- Dysfunction of stapedius/tensor tympani (but not myoclonus)
-Sinus issues

Do you also feel the contraction? Or do you only hear the contraction?

 

[Saadc]

I would say that the contraction starts at the beginning of the sound but the crunchy thing is actually heard at the end of sentance just like something is released.

I kind of feel the contraction the sound is something mechanical

 

[japongus]

I would say that the contraction starts at the beginning of the sound but the crunchy thing is actually heard at the end of sentance just like something is released.

I kind of feel the contraction the sound is something mechanical

But do you feel it or merely hear it?

 

[Saadc]

I would say that I feel it, it's not just a sound but a feeling that something is moving or something is sticked to my tympani/eustachian tube.
It moves whenever I talk, I yawn, I touch around it , sometimes even if I move my head.

The noise is just like when you try to plug a audio jack, and sometimes it makes a crunchy sound at the beginning. But mine is more "wet" and organic.

I don't know if my stapedius is so much sensible to react even to touch

 

[maz1]

I would say that the contraction starts at the beginning of the sound but the crunchy thing is actually heard at the end of sentance just like something is released.

I kind of feel the contraction the sound is something mechanical

That,s exactly my experience.
I couldn't explain it any better.
I've visited a otologist in NYC who suggested cutting the muscles. However he cannot offer further diagnostics prior and couldn't determine if the surgery will have effect (being positive or negative).
Kind of a leap of faith.

Saadc,
Have you made any new progress?

 

[japongus]

That,s exactly my experience.
I couldn't explain it any better.
I've visited a otologist in NYC who suggested cutting the muscles. However he cannot offer further diagnostics prior and couldn't determine if the surgery will have effect (being positive or negative).
Kind of a leap of faith.

Didn't even the guy who taught him about the surgery have any experience with this surgery?

Did he mean no predictive capacities as to positive or negative based on how he didn't see anything prior to the surgery on the eardrum or tympanogram? Or no predictive capacities including those whose movements can be seen on these tests?

 

[lapidus]

@japongus
There's a new thread about Stapedius myoclonus surgery up at chat-H. Don't know if you're still banned from there though, but I thought of you when I saw it.
http://www.chat-hyperacusis.net/post/stapedius-myoclonus-surgery-8394482

 

[japongus]

@japongus
There's a new thread about Stapedius myoclonus surgery up at chat-H. Don't know if you're still banned from there though, but I thought of you when I saw it.
http://www.chat-hyperacusis.net/post/stapedius-myoclonus-surgery-8394482

His is more classical and more probable of being myo, as it goes off without noise provocation and sounds like rice krispies. He's also got messages from 10 years ago on the forum complaining about it, but that doesn't stop every joe schmoe over there from waltzing in to warn him of the consequences and to think it through thoroughly rofl.

We also have a big problem with patients disappearing and not telling their stories fully so maybe you should pop into that thread and tell him to give us a report on how it went. I'm still banned over there.

 

[lapidus]

He's also got messages from 10 years ago on the forum complaining about it
We also have a big problem with patients disappearing and not telling their stories fully so maybe you should pop into that thread and tell him to give us a report on how it went. I'm still banned over there.

Yeah, I also noticed that when I looked up his earlier posts. Doesn't go into great detail of his symptoms and never seem to follow up on his threads.

Sorry, but I don't even have an account over there. I just don't see the point since I would probably just get banned anyway.

 

[SarahStacey]

I have the same crunch in my ear. Started in my left ear and now it's become a nuisance in both ears. The noise of the crunch is only there after the last word at the end of a sentence or when things clang. Sometimes, if I am typing loudly at the computer, I will get a weird ear pain/spasm electrical shock, perhaps too much activity all at once.

I only notice I get neck pain and headaches from. My #1 complaint is dizziness. I get very dizzy with this making head motion a bit intolerant.

Have you found relief? Doctor saw my left eardrum is retracted which could mean it has become that way due to the spasming.

 

[dingaling]

Forgive me for not understanding this thread....

I'm thinking autophony and patulus Eustachian tube(s). Why would cutting the stapedius/tensor tympani tensors relieve these symptoms ?? Sounds like a hiding to hyperacusis

And remember, the chorda tympani/facial nerve runs through the middle ear - suppose the surgeon slipped and cut this as well...?