Ear Plugs and Concerts

[lucluc]

Hi guys,
sorry if I seem to be over-posting but I do seem to have a lot of questions, being very new to this!

So, as a 20 year old I think it's safe to say i'm going to find myself in a loud environment every now and again. I was wondering how best I can protect myself in these environments. I've been out a few times using some 'arco' foam earplugs that state they offer 37dB protection- my dad has boat-loads of these from work he has given me.

Whilst these seemed to have prevented my tinnitus worsening after being in clubs, I do still feel like i'm giving my ear a bit of a battering even with them in.

Should I continue to wear these or do you think it's best to invest in some custom ones- looking at these they don't seem to offer as high protection as 37 dB? Any help/suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[Bill Bauer]

This forum is full of horror stories of people finding out the hard way that ear plugs will not always be enough to protect you.
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/earplugs-muffs-give-very-little-protection.21737/

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-much-worse-after-club-despite-wearing-solid-35-db-custom-earplugs-—-im-at-my-wits-end.15744/#post-186018

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/bad-spike-not-subsiding-after-loud-bar-—-despite-wearing-properly-inserted-earplugs.20675/#post-239000

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...t-an-acoustic-trauma-shock.18964/#post-219363

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...le-in-real-life-situations.19067/#post-220314

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/33-decibel-earplug-not-protecting-from-sound.22151/

I could go on and on and on (provide links to more horror stories where people found out the hard way that it was a bad idea to rely on earplugs), but you get the idea.

Even if those spikes end up being temporary, we are given a limited number of second chances. If one keeps being reckless, eventually a time might come when the spike won't go away.

It is also possible that by being reckless and thinking only about the short term enjoyment, you might be reducing the chance that your tinnitus will eventually fade or even go away.

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

Hi,

Firstly great that you want to protect your hearing.

I would take regular breaks and never sit near the speakers in addition to the earplugs.

Custom plugs will be your best bet because they will be inserted correctly all the time. Foam plugs are very good though, just make sure they are inserted correctly.

 

[Michael Leigh]

T worsening after being in clubs, I do still feel like i'm giving my ear a bit of a battering even with them in. Should I continue to wear these or do you think it's best to invest in some custom ones- looking at these they don't seem to offer as high protection as 37dB? Any help/suggestions would be appreciated!

You can be wearing the best earplugs in the world, if external sound is too loud it can pass through your skull and reach your inner ear and irritate the cochlea by bone conduction. Low bass frequencies can be just as harmful so I advise you to be careful.

Michael

 

[Greg Clarke]

I always post in this type of topic. I've had tinnitus for 11 years, I'm 37.

I still perform in a band, and I still regularly attend concerts, I've hit the following this year Meshuggah, Deftones, Sepultura, Ghost, Armored Saint, Katatonia, Leprous, Helmet, Iron Maiden. Hardly easy listening.

I personally think earplugs combined with safe distance from speakers is absolutely fine.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I've had tinnitus for 11 years, I'm 37.

First of all, your tinnitus might have been gone had you had a different lifestyle. Second of all you are not out of the woods yet. Do you think that after decades of this you are more likely or less likely to have screaming tinnitus in your 70s or 80s?

 

[Greg Clarke]

First of all, your tinnitus might have been gone had you had a different lifestyle

Sure, that's one way of looking at it @Bill Bauer and for a while I stopped all that kind of activity. But I was depressed.

There's so many variables here.

I may not live to see 70-80

It may get worse because of my lifestyle, it may not.

It could just have easily gotten worse sitting at home and not doing anything.

The bottom line is there's no pattern to Tinnitus, there is that element of the unknown about it. Things may or may not have an effect on it. All I know is that I enjoy what I do and that makes me happy.

 

[Bill Bauer]

for a while I stopped all that kind of activity

How long? If it was reasonably long, then perhaps you were right to resume it. Abstaining from this activity didn't help you and the presence of this activity doesn't seem to change anything.

there's no pattern to Tinnitus

Judging by what I read on this forum, there seems to be a pattern of noises increasing the probability of T getting worse. But it is just like with smoking. I believe I read somewhere that something like two thirds of smokers will never have any health issues as a result of smoking...

 

[Philippe79]

Whilst these seemed to have prevented my tinnitus worsening after being in clubs, I do still feel like i'm giving my ear a bit of a battering even with them in.

Clubs... boom boom boom. Waaaay too much bass for my liking. This is one of the few times when I feel my earplugs actually have very little or no affect.

 

[Greg Clarke]

How long? If it was reasonably long, then perhaps you were right to resume it. Abstaining from this activity didn't help you and the presence of this activity doesn't seem to change anything.

About a year. I found once I resumed doing the things I loved (With precaution as much as possible) I stopped obsessing about it.

Judging by what I read on this forum, there seems to be a pattern of noises increasing the probability of T getting worse

This is a great place for support and valuable news on research, but you shouldn't judge everything by what you read here - there are a lot of worst case scenarios on the site or people who have just developed tinnitus, basically people at their most vulnerable. For comparison there's musicians out there (James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich, Jeff Ament) who have played on with the condition for decades with no worsening effects.

Tinnitus talk can be a collection of the bad stories, the guys who run the site (And do an excellent job by the way) will tell you. Most people come here because they're hurting and in a bad place. A large percentage of those will leave after about three months and never be heard from again. People adapt and go on to live their lives.


I'd be gone too, only I like to check back in every once in a while to give positive accounts.

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

First of all, your tinnitus might have been gone had you had a different lifestyle.

You never cease to bring your unique perspective on life to every thread on this board lol!

The OP could also live under a rock for the rest of his life and never go outside as well. Or he could try and live a rich and fulfilling life and take precautions where possible. I'd take the second option myself

 

[Philippe79]

For comparison there's musicians out there (James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich, Jeff Ament) who have played on with the condition for decades with no worsening effects.

Eric Clapton is another example of a musician who carried on despite tinnitus, and is still going strong now. And there's not too many that have abused their ears more than him! Quote from an article says 'his ears have actually got better since using earplugs'

 

[lucluc]

Thanks for all the responses guys,
I can see why this might be a controversial topic, we don't seem to have a straight-forward answer for anything regarding T it seems!
Part of me thinks staying in quiet environments is the way to go, whereas the other part of me thinks isolating myself and being over cautious may make the whole thing worse. At such a young age, I can't see a way to avoid loud environments forever. I will be a bit more choosey about how often I go out, but I think earplugs and being sensible will be much better for me in the long term than sitting in my room and being depressed about the ringing constantly.

 

[Johan Berndt]

Hi!
I am partying atleast once a week (I am a student hehe). Anywho, I use foam plugs (33db) if I am at the club. Otherwise I use 20 db earplugs if it is loud but not "to loud".
And I also want to say, don't listen to all people that are saying that you have to stop with all loud activities. Listen to yourself instead. Of course your tinnitus can gets worse. But it can also stay at the same level. For example there are soooo many people out there with tinnitus that still goes to clubs and concerts. The people who is here in this forum is suffering from tinnitus. I now how it feels, I've been there by myself.

Be careful

 

[linearb]

Most people I know with tinnitus and/or significant hearing loss have continued to go to concerts, exercising caution, and seem to be fine. Of course, most (though not all) people I know with tinnitus have relatively minor manifestations.

I don't really do concerts anymore for a number of reasons, but I did for most of my 20s without any trouble. All it took was one reckless night of leaving earplugs at home to have more severe problems, though.

I wouldn't encourage anyone to continue with concerts, firearms, motorcycles, etc -- it's a personal choice, and you'll be the one to live with the consequences of your actions.

Note that there's a pretty big difference between something like an outdoor music festival at 110db, and an indoor basement club at 125db.

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

Thanks for all the responses guys,
I can see why this might be a controversial topic, we don't seem to have a straight-forward answer for anything regarding T it seems!

You know who you should be listening too? An audiologist, they are professionals and trained in this area of science. Us internet doctors can only offer you opinions

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I took about a year and 3 months off from shows. I've since been to 4-5 concerts and I'm going to one tonight.

GET CUSTOM EARPLUGS. They're inserted correctly. It's as simple as that. They're not THAT expensive, and they're infinitely more comfortable and the sound is tremendously better.

I tend to agree with a post I read above - I dont do dance clubs anymore. It's not necessarily because of the bass - but more b/c I don't trust DJs. Long and short, they dont actually do anything most of the time, so they get bored and start twisting knobs and making stuff louder to feel like they're more than a jukebox. This tends to lead to redlined sound systems.

I was a DJ at raves for many years, so I've watched this phenomenon first hand - and any sound company will tell you that DJs ruin speakers far more often than bands.

DONT hide from concerts if you enjoy them. A professional concert is OSHA regulated, takes place in a properly sound treated room, and with quality hearing protection IS NOT DANGEROUS.

Sitting around at home thinking about what you're missing out on is worse for your relationship with tinnitus than a room that averages 95 db whilst wearing 25db of reduction for 2 hours is for your hearing.

Lastly, concerts are NOT 125 db. Thats nonsense. Front row may PEAK at 120 for a second or two, but averages even at the loudest spots in the room tend to be more like 95-100. 120db is the threshold for healthy ears to experience PAIN. No way a room full of people would deal with hyperacusis symptoms for hours and pay for the privilege to do so, unless its a My Bloody Valentine concert.

Just skip the My Bloody Valentine shows.

 

[newbieT]

Alot of people here will point out cases where they or someone went to concerts and they were fine, and others will say theres reports of people who werent fine after.

I think both parties are right. But no one can say their T has increased by NOT going to a concert. So what i'm trying to say is are you willing to risk a permanently louder T over a few hours of fun.

Personally, my T has permanently increased (unless a spike last 4 months) by going to a outdoor concert with 30db foam earplugs. So i gambled and it didnt pay off. And I wouldnt go to another concert ever again.

 

[Bill Bauer]

a rich and fulfilling life and take precautions where possible.

How rich can it be when most of it is filled with you listening to your debilitating tinnitus?

 

[Bill Bauer]

A professional concert is OSHA regulated, takes place in a properly sound treated room, and with quality hearing protection IS NOT DANGEROUS.

It is not dangerous for tinnitus-free people with healthy ears. You can find countless examples on this site of people getting permanent spikes from noises that a person with healthy ears would not even notice. I got my permanent spike after pressing a loud phone to my ear. Are you saying a phone is considered to be dangerous? Well, I learned the hard way that it IS dangerous for people like us whose ears have been compromised.

Front row may PEAK at 120 for a second or two, but averages even at the loudest spots in the room tend to be more like 95-100.

Being exposed to noise for a fraction of a second is all it takes (as I learned the hard way during both of my acoustic traumas).

 

[Michael Leigh]

It is not dangerous for tinnitus-free people with healthy ears. You can find countless examples on this site of people getting permanent spikes from noises that a person with healthy ears would not even notice. I got my permanent spike after pressing a loud phone to my ear. Are you saying a phone is considered to be dangerous? Well, I learned the hard way that it IS dangerous for people like us whose ears have been compromised.

Being exposed to noise for a fraction of a second is all it takes (as I learned the hard way during both of my acoustic traumas).

I agree with you @Bill Bauer
If a person wants to go to a club or concert then they should do so. However, they should remember if external sounds at these venues are loud enough, they can reach the inner ear by bone conduction. This is when sound enters through the skull and is transfered to the inner ear and can irritate the cochlea. The best hearing protection in the world cannot stop that. Therefore, it is up to the individual to always have this in mind.

Michael

 

[Tom Cnyc]

It is not dangerous for tinnitus-free people with healthy ears. You can find countless examples on this site of people getting permanent spikes from noises that a person with healthy ears would not even notice. I got my permanent spike after pressing a loud phone to my ear. Are you saying a phone is considered to be dangerous? Well, I learned the hard way that it IS dangerous for people like us whose ears have been compromised.

Being exposed to noise for a fraction of a second is all it takes (as I learned the hard way during both of my acoustic traumas).

@Bill Bauer from what I have read you have a very extreme case. While I am empathetic to your plight, I also will not live my life assuming that I will be in the .0001% of any group and I strongly suggest that others do the same.

You have no idea if your spike is permanent. You've had tinnitus for 9 months. Mine didn't start to get better until the 8-10 month mark and I didn't see large improvements until the 14 month mark. I'm not saying any of this to doubt you in any way. You have every reason to have hope though.

There are as many posts on this site that indicate that people can go back to living life as there are indicating that things may get worse. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Jordyn]

anyone who doesn't use earplugs, or abuses their ears after having tinnitus, doesn't have tinnitus bad enough to understand the implied threat of it getting worse. Man, I didn't have it that long, and I hope it never comes back. It was going to take a lot of help to get used to that noise till death do us part, and to think it could have gotten WORSE???? There's no concert I want to see that bad.

 

[Bill Bauer]

from what I have read you have a very extreme case. While I am empathetic to your plight, I also will not live my life assuming that I will be in the .0001% of any group and I strongly suggest that others do the same.

I am paying attention to this particular topic, and I can tell you that there is a post almost every week (during the summer it was almost one post per day) where someone gets (what seems at the time) a life-altering secondary acoustic trauma in a fraction of a second (or overestimates the ability of earplugs to protect him or her and lives to regret it very much). So it is NOT 0.00000000001%, it is more like 40-60%.

Mine didn't start to get better until the 8-10 month mark and I didn't see large improvements until the 14 month mark. I'm not saying any of this to doubt you in any way.

Thank you for sharing this. This gives hope to me and to the others here.

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

How rich can it be when most of it is filled with you listening to your debilitating tinnitus?

We have already debated this in other threads and I believe you already know my perspective on the matter

 

[Bill Bauer]

We have already debated this in other threads and I believe you already know my perspective on the matter

Speaking of other threads, below is today's example of someone who decided to follow your advice and to

live a rich and fulfilling life and take precautions where possible

Thanks for the replies.
Yes i tried another ride over 100 klms last week and it has spiked even further going to a higher level and changed its sound to something like a kettle whisterling loud .
I thought i had a ok setup too re earplugs and gentle nature sounds playing through them , it seemed ok pn the ride but paid the price that night and since .
I have another app with the ent nect week but im not expecting much so far ive gained more insight from other sufferers than the professionals.

I do want to try the earmuffs and bose qc 20 earplugs but i have to aggree i dont want this condition to spike further we are already at level 8 .
Last night was a shocker i need to get this to settle if i can .
Regards toohp

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

Speaking of other threads, below is today's example of someone who decided to follow your advice and to

While I would prefer to not get into a debate with you. I'm sorry to hear Toohp is having problems, but its also clear the user Toohp was not wearing effective protection while riding if they were listening to music through them. It sounds like they were just using earphones.

 

[Bill Bauer]

user Toohp was not wearing effective protection while riding if they were listening to music through them.

It sounds like these were noise-isolating or noise-cancelling earbuds from Bose. Given that earplugs reduce the noise by at most 30 dB, I doubt the noise reduction of his earbuds was considerably lower than that of earplugs.

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

It sounds like these were noise-isolating or noise-cancelling earbuds from Bose. Given that earplugs reduce the noise by at most 30 dB, I doubt the noise reduction of his earbuds was considerably lower than that of earplugs.

Fair shake of the sauce bottle, mate. I have Bose Noise Cancelling headphones and while they are amazing, comparing them to either custom plugs or correctly inserted earplugs is the difference between night and day as far as hearing protection goes.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I have Bose Noise Cancelling headphones

So do I, and inside of airplanes and cars they seem to provide better noise reduction than "Peltor muffs + ear plugs."