Earmuffs

[Ed209]

No ones saying not to protect your ears. That would be incredibly stupid and goes without saying. However, you also have to be careful about what you read (on forums in particular) and how it starts affecting your everyday behaviour. I say this because I see so many posts that take protection too far. It does start to get into your head if you're reading some of this stuff regularly. At one point - probably after 4 months or so of being a member here - I was almost scared to leave the house in case a lorry passed me; had my decibel meter out in shopping malls; avoided invitations from friends to go out for a few drinks, etc. Once the seed of doubt is planted deep enough (if you read too much) you'll start to withdraw from life, and your behaviour can and will become phobic. It is a real risk.

I've read stories of people not leaving the house without ear muffs. This is when it gets ridiculous, and it's not a behaviour I'd want others to feel they also need to do; so they don't get damaged. It's a horrible mindset and I never want to go back there. I would say I was becoming phonophobic which I'd say a lot of people on here are, and they are advising others to copy their traits. It's unhealthy.

The problem with having sufferers all in one place is that it amplifies the fear expenentially. People start to bounce off each other.

I started to feel great once I took a break from here and stopped reading about tinnitus. My life is creeping in the right direction once more, and my fear of sound has improved massively (along with my quality of life). My journey isn't over yet, but occasionally when I come back here, I see all the same old posts and nobody seems to have improved on their situation. It is still mainly posts about avoiding everything under the sun: otherwise your tinnitus will get worse etc.

Enjoy your lives, and protect your ears when necessary.

 

[Ed209]

Man, here you go again. It's like you know nothing about hyperacusis (not sensitivity to loud sounds : hyperacusis, the one that makes your life hell. You should read the thread about hidden hearing loss to understand the process, you'll see that anxiety is not needed to increase hyperacusis).

Luckily, Sven doesn't seem to have it so he'll probably be fine with earmuffs and/or earplugs.

I've posted about hidden hearing loss Foncky. I understand what it's all about and believe I've most likely got nerve damage from noise exposure. I wasn't protecting my ears at all though.

Why is this the only place that advises against what the experts do? Why is overprotection good?

I can't find anyone, or anything of worth, that says overprotection is anything other than a bad idea.

I'll post an excerpt below that gets straight to the point:

The overuse of hearing protection is almost universally discouraged based on evidence that it will lower loudness thresholds over time. Risks of overprotection include increased auditory gain, anxiety induced hypersensitivity, and reinforcement of negative associations with sound. Positive results from studies of Sound Therapy & Counseling reinforce the notion that overprotection can prevent people from building sound tolerance. These treatments emphasize a gradual increase in sound exposure rather than sound isolation. It is often recommended that those with hyperacusis walk the fine line between setbacks and overprotection rather than follow a course of isolation andhypervigilance. Practically applying this guideline is not always straightforward.

http://hyperacusisfocus.org/research/earplug-use-2/

 

[Foncky]

A movie at 90dB is still enjoyable if you reduce it to 70dB with good earplugs (= high fidelity ones), it's not what I call overprotecting.

"Experts" in the hearing area are at the very first stage of understanding the cochlea... I will quote HomeoHebbian who works in a lab : "Even low sound levels, when presented constantly for a very long time (i.e., days) can exacerbate cochlear synapse loss".

Oups, that's what TRT does, low sound levels for a very long time. Hearing aids are a massive killer of hair cells too, but they are sold by "experts". So you see, it's never black or white.

You can read the whole last messages in the hidden hearing loss thread.

 

[Bobby B]

@Ed209
You are just copy pasting a typical TRT professional opinion - this is not a scientific proven fact or study.

But the key here - this "Risk of auditory gain" isn't really a risk ..

Whenever you wear ear muffs/plugs there may be some auditory gain. But as soon as the muffs are off the brain gets the usual sound level back and after a short time the auditory gain is gone.

This phenomenon is completely reversible

So again the same question : why even worry about a temporary effect that is 100% naturally reversible ?

 

[Ed209]

@Ed209
You are just copy pasting a typical TRT professional opinion - this is not a scientific proven fact or study.

But the key here - this "Risk of auditory gain" isn't really a risk ..

Whenever you wear ear muffs/plugs there may be some auditory gain. But as soon as the muffs are off the brain gets the usual sound level back and after a short time the auditory gain is gone.

This phenomenon is completely reversible

So again the same question : why even worry about a temporary effect that is 100% naturally reversible ?

Bobby, this is the advice of professionals regardless of TRT. I'm no advocate of TRT because I've never tried it, but why are you so against it when it has such a high success rate? I can't find anything that says overprotection is a good thing.

It seems counter productive, anecdotally, by just looking at this forum. Everyone who seems overly concerned about protection all seem to be stuck with the same problems. I think sound therapy could well help many of you overcome some of your H problems.

We all have the right to think and say what we believe, so you have every right to continue as you see fit. I just want to put my opinion across so others can see both sides.

 

[Bobby B]

@Ed209

You still aren't answering the most important point:

Why even worry about a temporary "Auditory gain effect" that is 100% naturally reversible ?

 

[Ed209]

@Ed209

You still aren't answering the most important point:

Why even worry about a temporary "Auditory gain effect" that is 100% naturally reversible ?

Bobby, I'm not sure why you are asking this. What purpose does over protection serve? No Dr ever advises this course of action because it can lead to further isolation and other mental problems. The bottom line is it's not good for you.

This is no way means that we shouldn't protect our ears. There is a big difference between protecting your ears and protecting them unnecessarily. Sound therapy can be effective at reducing the symptoms of hyperacusis, but this would not be possible walking around with ear muffs on.

Back to the original question: how do you know that prolonged over protection doesn't make hyperacusis worse?

You have to bear in mind that this has been studied all over the world, and the professional protocol for hyperacusis is sound therapy. Are you saying all the research is wrong?

 

[Foncky]

Everyone who seems overly concerned about protection all seem to be stuck with the same problems.

I agree, I'm stuck. My condition is getting worse and worse.

People like me should maybe write less over here, because their H is not what most people will experience, fortunately. But I promise you, my overprotecting is not due to anxiety, it is due to everyday not loud noises that still spike my T, worsen my H and my hearing loss.

 

[Ed209]

I agree, I'm stuck. My condition is getting worse and worse.

People like me should maybe write less over here, because their H is not what most people will experience, fortunately. But I promise you, my overprotecting is not due to anxiety, it is due to everyday not loud noises that still spike my T, worsen my H and my hearing loss.

Foncky, serious question: Have you tried any treatment for your hyperacusis? Have you actively tried to reduce it? I'm curious because I've heard that the journey can be hard and set backs are common. It's certainly not a walk in the park and I'm not suggesting it is. I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Foncky]

I'll be honest : I refuse TRT, because no one is able to perform it in my area and I know I would not be able to handle the noise generators anyway, even at a very low volume.

My experience with audiologists and ENTs has been a dangerous disaster so far.

So that does not leave many options. I'm considering LLLT but I still have to find the right home device.

What I tried is :
- protecting my ears when necessarily (= around loud noise (loud noise includes emptying the dishwasher for me, without protection it's truly unbearable) or potentiel sudden noises, like sirens in the street).
- CBT, yoga and sport to reduce the anxiety / fear of sounds
- and most of all, trying to get a life back and enjoy every day as much as possible : that means focusing on what I can do, and most importantly, what I can do without earplugs

 

[bill 112]

Answer me this Ed,if TRT or sound therapy would be helpful to me explain why I experience burning stinging pain all over my head and face from tiny little noises?Explain why all my symptoms were diagnosed by 3 separate neuros as peripharel neuropathic pain.If I experience peripharel neuro pain from sound how could that be?Well the auditory nerve is a peripharel nerve,it's also connected to the facial nerve and trigeminal nerve and runs through the spinal column to the CNS.Another textbook symptom of peripharel neuropathy is stinging burning skin,or stinging in the feet and legs as the pain signal travels down the spinal cord,I experience all of the above.
When I wake up in the morning there's no pain,my skin feels normal everything feels like it should,that is until the moment I start taking in sound and slowly but surely the pain throughout my body increases throughout the day,starting in my ears then my head and through my body.I am also not the first H patient to show these symptoms,so tell me how does playing sound into my ears that pisses off these nerves heal them?When I hear TRT being preached onto me all I can invision is a doctor getting a burn victim and slowly burning him with matches in order to heal the burn,that's what TRT is to people like me and anyone whose not in this situation simply can't understand that fact.

As I said before,I don't fear sound I fear the pain that comes with it.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I would like to make a comment about hyperacusis.
The onset of my tinnitus many years ago brought on very severe hyperacusis. It was so bad conversation with people was painful at times. The hyperacusis was completely cured in 2 years wearing white noise generators as part of TRT with counselling. Wearing the white noise generators for 10hrs a day and using a sound machine at night for sound enrichment.
I believe most cases of hypercusis can be cured. Over protecting the ears and auditory system in my opinion is not a good thing and can make hyperacusis worse.
Michael

 

[Bobby B]

It took me about 8 months to cure my H by wearing ear muffs (mostly), plugs and doing LLLT ..

And not just H, also sound quality - hearing range, clarity and crispiness of sound and music.

I think it all depends on what caused your H though.
If its anxiety and mental issues then of course stay away from ear protection.

I don't wear muffs when then sound levels is under 60db anymore though.

In my commute the subway is 85db at the loudest and around 70db on avg walking in noisy streets so with muffs I am getting around 40 to 55db, which is probably as much as you had set in your sound generators setup.

@Michael Leigh
At what sound volume where those devices you listened to for 10Hours a day ?

I also sleep with some sounds apps which help calm the T, but at very low volume under 35db.

 

[Michael Leigh]

At what sound volume where those devices you listened to for 10Hours a day ?

My tinnitus was caused by headphones and believe me I thought I had blown my hearing. My whole head was completely numb for around 4 months. More that one ENT Dr advised me I had severe noise trauma. I could hear but it felt like my head was under water. I started TRT and wearing the white noise generators after 6 months from the onset. The White Noise generators were 60 decibel ratings (whatever that meant) They had variable volume controls. I was told to set the volume below the level of the tinnitus in the morning and leave them alone for the rest of the day, until night when taking them off, and using the sound machine by the bedside.
Michael

 

[Sven]

You could bring some in-ear plugs and wear them underneath your ear defenders if you get there and feel they aren't providing enough protection.

I'm currently using these 33Db in-ear plugs called Isolates that are doing a decent job (https://flareaudio.com/products/earfoams/isolate/) though I'm planning to invest in some heavy duty ear defenders for the cinema.

Can you buy those in stores somewhere in London? How do they fit/feel?

 

[Sven]

@Sven
Don't let anyone convince you that protecting your ears is weak or unhealthy

It's not going to Promote any permanent sound sensitivity at all.

Did you known that wearing sunglasses was considered weak and unhealthy in the 1930's !

Wearing muffs shouldn't be any different than wearing sunglasses and it's not going to cause any permanent effect - besides avoiding a potential PERMANENT ear damage due to loud sounds hitting already damaged ear cells.

Thanks, I don't. I've had my tinnitus for almost 18 years and also experienced scares. I know how it can be. I rather overprotect than not, but I still don't want to miss out on too much stuff. It's an act of balance where I'm not allowed to do wrong.

 

[Sven]

I only use my 10db filters so there's no issue hearing the dialogue at all. The cinemas I use are not loud at all, so I only use them as a precaution to play it safe. I'm fairly certain I'd be fine without them but I'd rather play it safe to be honest.

I don't want to get into a discussion about overprotection, but thanks for the info on those earplugs. Being able to change to more "movie friendly" filters seems really great. Maybe that's something I should replace (add to) my Earfoon plugs with. I feel they take away too much from movies and live hockey games, for example.

How much did you pay and how much are different filters? Are they simple to change?

 

[Ed209]

I don't want to get into a discussion about overprotection, but thanks for the info on those earplugs. Being able to change to more "movie friendly" filters seems really great. Maybe that's something I should replace (add to) my Earfoon plugs with. I feel they take away too much from movies and live hockey games, for example.

How much did you pay and how much are different filters? Are they simple to change?

Hi Sven, I paid around £140 for the plugs and the filters are £50 a pair. The solid caps are about £5 a pair.

 

[Sven]

Hi Sven, I paid around £140 for the plugs and the filters are £50 a pair. The solid caps are about £5 a pair.

Solid being regular plugs?

The ACS Pros seem really great, better than the ER20 (it seems) and my current ones. I'm definitely looking them up. I see that there are five different levels of filters Must be hard choosing sometimes.

The filters were more expensive than expected, though.

 

[Ed209]

Solid being regular plugs?

The ACS Pros seem really great, better than the ER20 (it seems) and my current ones. I'm definitely looking them up. I see that there are five different levels of filters Must be hard choosing sometimes.

The filters were more expensive than expected, though.

Yea to be honest the filters are expensive, but you can't put a price on safety really. I had a spare set on me during my stag do (bachelor party) and I dropped and lost them. It was like dropping and losing £50. Be careful with them if you do get a few different ones as they are tiny.

The solid caps just seal the end off to give the maximum protection.

 

[Sven]

OK, thanks again. I see that they're sold in Sweden, too. Do you know how much the solid ones lower dB?

And, I meant the ER, (Bellman), not the ER20 above, should anyone wonder.

 

[Ed209]

OK, thanks again. I see that they're sold in Sweden, too. Do you know how much the solid ones lower dB?

And, I meant the ER, (Bellman), not the ER20 above, should anyone wonder.

The solid caps reduce around 30db

 

[Sam Bridge]

I still find the thought of wearing ear plugs at the cinema odd? I watch horrors/comedy generally though.

 

[Sven]

I still find the thought of wearing ear plugs at the cinema odd? I watch horrors/comedy generally though.

I don't. Action movies can be VERY loud.

 

[Sam Bridge]

I don't. Action movies can be VERY loud.

Yeah i guess, i'll take my plugs next time i see an action movie.

 

[Krish230]

Can you buy those in stores somewhere in London? How do they fit/feel?

No I bought them straight from the Flare Audio website, came to £55 including shipping. I believe they are manufactured in and shipped from the UK. I got the titanium version but there's also an aluminium version for £25 which attenuates a few decibels less.

They do feel good, they come with 3 different foam tip sizes (small, medium, large) which was helpful for the fit. They're also fairly discrete since the foam ear plugs I was using previously were bright yellow.