Flu Shots

[jazz]

Hi Everyone!

Has anyone recently gotten the flu shot, and, if so, did it affect your tinnitus? I'm debating getting it. I've been loud the last two days and am scheduled to get one tomorrow. I'm not feeling very optimistic.

Apparently, mercury may be used in some US flu vaccinations, but most do not contain it. The ingredient only appears in multi-use vials. So that's good! But these vaccinations also contain trace amounts of antibiotics. And they are of the "mycin" variety. This year, according to the CDC, trace amounts of Neomycin will appear in vaccinations.

Last year, I did get the flu vaccination and my tinnitus became scary loud, but only for one day. But I felt the increase was from my nerves and not something within the vaccine. Now, however, I'm not so sure.

Here's the CDC link for US members; I'm not sure what the EU link would be.

Please, everyone, share your experiences. And, please remember, getting the flu could also increase your tinnitus.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/vaccine-decision/ingredients.html

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/ucm187810.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/vaccines.htm
​

 

[jimH]

Hi @jazz,

Yes, I got a flu shot in September. I've been getting flu shots for years and they have never caused any change in my T condition.

 

[Relic Hunter]

I have gotten yearly flu shots now for sometime..I have noticed no change in my T.

 

[awbw8]

Hey @jazz, same here, I got the flu shot last year and am going to get it this year. I think you'll be fine, I find it hard to believe the trace amounts of anything in a flu vaccine are going to impact you negatively.

Just so you know, if a vaccine is one that contains mercury, it contains roughly the same amount as a tunafish sandwich. (http://www.pharmacytimes.com/news/A...-Vaccine-Formulations-for-the-20142015-Season) So nothing to fret over

 

[Marlene]

Never had a flu Shot until I got a bad virus 9 yrs ago ,but I was told to get one the following year ,as virus had given me a low immune system .Ive been fine on it no side affects to my T .
I've been reading some news on Dr Mercola site. Talking about Innoculations ,just yesterday ,thought that interesting ,don't know how to get it up to put on TT ,but go have a look at what a lady Barbara has to say .I found it informative ,be glad if some on TT could have a look. And come back to their thoughts and what was said .
Good thread today Jazz as lots have these flu shots and other kinds of shots for various things these days .

 

[DebS]

I had a flu shot last Wednesday, and I did have a bad T day Thursday but I don't think it was because of the shot. Anyway, Friday was better and I had lower T days on Saturday and Sunday. It's rather screaming today, tho.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Friends, we have an obligation to ourselves, to our families, to our colleagues in the workplace, and to society at large to take our annual flu shots. I guess some folks see it differently, but to me it's the height of irresponsibility to ignore such a simple and vital step.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[jazz]

Thanks everyone!

Your responses were most assuring! I will monitor but am hoping for the best.

I do, however, think it is reasonable for us to be cautious of our drug consumption. I just wish we had more information on these potential problem areas. This is particularly true for known ototoxins, such as aminoglycoside antibiotics. There is not a consistent protocol for us to follow when we are exposed to ototoxicins. I do take NAC and will add magnesium and vitamins A, C, and E for a few days.

@Marlene I will check out the website!

 

[Telis]

Never had a flu shot that I can remember, had the flu once in 25 plus years...have always been warry of them. I would never get one now especially with tinnitus. Just my opinion.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Hi Everyone!

Has anyone recently gotten the flu shot, and, if so, did it affect your tinnitus? I'm debating getting it. I've been loud the last two days and am scheduled to get one tomorrow. I'm not feeling very optimistic.

Apparently, mercury may be used in some US flu vaccinations, but most do not contain it. The ingredient only appears in multi-use vials. So that's good! But these vaccinations also contain trace amounts of antibiotics. And they are of the "mycin" variety. This year, according to the CDC, trace amounts of Neomycin will appear in vaccinations.

Last year, I did get the flu vaccination and my tinnitus became scary loud, but only for one day. But I felt the increase was from my nerves and not something within the vaccine. Now, however, I'm not so sure.

Here's the CDC link for US members; I'm not sure what the EU link would be.

Please, everyone, share your experiences. And, please remember, getting the flu could also increase your tinnitus.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/vaccine-decision/ingredients.html

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/ucm187810.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/vaccines.htm

Having a background in finance, here's how I make decisions: if the benefit outweighs the cost in the cost/benefit analysis, then go ahead with it. In the case of the flu shot, what are the benefits for an otherwise healthy person? The benefits are you probably won't get sick with the flu that same season. What are the "costs"? The costs are the potential side-effects. Most side-effects are insignificant, but there are a few serious ones. Here's one of them:

http://www.naturalnews.com/047590_flu_shot_paralysis_vaccine_adverse_effects.html

The above story is pretty much what happened to one of my Father's former employees a number of years ago. He was headed for Asia during one of the epidemics and got the flu shot before the trip. Already next day, he was feeling not so well. And then... paralysis. He ended up in a wheelchair for three years. But did recover in the end. But obviously he had to quit working and whatever else happens in such situations. Not to mention the anxiety of not knowing if he would ever walk again.

During my various employments with big corporations, I have many times been offered the flu shot at the office when a nurse would drop by and offer free flu shots for all interested. I have always refused. After all - as a healthy person - the worst thing that can happen is that I get sick if I don't take the shot. And that is a risk I am willing to take.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I live in Atlanta, home of the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). This morning I attended a conference where the principle guest speaker was a high-ranking CDC official. I was thinking about this thread, and at the conclusion of his presentation I asked him about the side-effects of the flu vaccine. He said that besides some mild discomfort at the injection site and a rare incidence of some muscle aches the following day, there were no side-effects. None at all. He went on to say that all the "stuff" you read on the Internet about side effects from the flu vaccine are purely the result of hysteria fueled by coincidence. Now that is the science. And I'll take this opportunity to reiterate what I said earlier in the thread:

"Friends, we have an obligation to ourselves, to our families, to our colleagues in the workplace, and to society at large to take our annual flu shots. I guess some folks see it differently, but to me it's the height of irresponsibility to ignore such a simple and vital step."

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[Grace]

I got my flu shot 2 weeks ago didnt think twice bout it.. Had it done last year no change in T and same this year. No side effects other then a little soreness in the injected arm but thats expected and normal.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I got my flu shot 2 weeks ago didnt think twice bout it.. Had it done last year no change in T and same this year. No side effects other then a little soreness in the injected arm but thats expected and normal.

Ahh. The voice of reason!

Best to all -

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[Marlene]

I think if you have a bad reaction to anything ,your reluctant to go that route again ,understandable .
I wouldn't like these jabs to be forced on folk ,they know the risk as an adult.Think the Hong Kong flu epidemic ,sent people into getting the jab regularly ,as folk were dropping like 9 pins .
I've never reacted bad to jab mine was like Grace ,just bit sore .No change to my T either .My husband has T and is an asthmatic ,so makes sense he has it ,he's never had a bad reaction to jab either .
Each to his own.you have to decide what's best for you in the end .Choices again .

 

[dboy]

I live in Atlanta, home of the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). This morning I attended a conference where the principle guest speaker was a high-ranking CDC official. I was thinking about this thread, and at the conclusion of his presentation I asked him about the side-effects of the flu vaccine. He said that besides some mild discomfort at the injection site and a rare incidence of some muscle aches the following day, there were no side-effects. None at all. He went on to say that all the "stuff" you read on the Internet about side effects from the flu vaccine are purely the result of hysteria fueled by coincidence. Now that is the science. And I'll take this opportunity to reiterate what I said earlier in the thread:

"Friends, we have an obligation to ourselves, to our families, to our colleagues in the workplace, and to society at large to take our annual flu shots. I guess some folks see it differently, but to me it's the height of irresponsibility to ignore such a simple and vital step."

Dr. Stephen Nagler

When I had a suspected ear infection my doctor prescribed antibiotic ear drops. I asked him whether there was any chance they could negatively affect my tinnitus. He looked at me as though I was incredibly impertinent and said that no, that would not happen. 4 days later my longstanding high pitched tinnitus was screaming louder than I've ever heard it and I had a massive whirring noise in my right ear that left me feeling dizzy when I tried to walk.

Over the next couple of weeks things settled down a bit. The whirring gradually got quieter, but I still have it a little. The high pitched calmed some but never went down to where it was before. Over the next few months I suffered a small increase and then a massive one from noise exposure that I suspect would not have harmed me without the damage caused by the drug affecting me first.

What I take from this is to be careful about what doctors say is safe. No offense intended to Dr. Nagler personally, but the 'science' can change over time. I tend to be instinctively wary now of absolute statements, as they suggest to me that only one side of a story is being told. Reality is usually more complex.

 

[dboy]

This morning I attended a conference where the principle guest speaker was a high-ranking CDC official... He went on to say that all the "stuff" you read on the Internet about side effects from the flu vaccine are purely the result of hysteria fueled by coincidence. Now that is the science.
Dr. Stephen Nagler

Without meaning to sound too argumentative, that does not sound quite like science.

Here is an alternative viewpoint, also by a doctor apparently. I have no idea which is closer to the truth, but perhaps there is a genuine reason to look a little deeper than a blanket denial.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...th-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/

Edit: Just noticed that article was linked at the end of the piece ATEOS linked to above.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Without meaning to sound too argumentative, that does not sound quite like science.

When a leading CDC authority who holds an M.D. degree and a Ph.D. in public health and epidemiology tells me that there are no reliable and verifiable studies suggesting that there are any appreciable side effects from taking the flu vaccine, it's enough science for me. It may not be enough science for you, @dboy, which is perfectly fine. But it's enough for me.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[Telis]

I would never put this crap in my body. If people say vaccines are 100 percent safe or have no side effects they are either miss informed or have some financial motive to do so. There are always risks!!

See link below on dangers of flu shot......

http://www.undergroundhealth.com/10-reasons-why-flu-shots-are-more-dangerous-than-the-flu/

 

[attheedgeofscience]

The following quote is from the CDCs own homepage:

"As with any medicine, there is a very remote chance of a vaccine causing a serious injury or death."

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm (look/search under heading Influenza (inactivated) vaccine side-effects).

I therefore stand by my statement in my previous post re: cost/benefit analysis - because even CDCs own homepage states the risks I indicated...! And besides, the report I mentioned earlier on is definitely not an "Internet Story".

As for the choice of whether or not to get a vaccine, here is how I make decisions:

Example#1: If I were going to an Ebola plagued country (and if there was a vaccine available), I would of course get the vaccine. [Benefit outweighs the risk].

Example#2: As a healthy adult (except tinnitus!) at age 37, I would not consider getting a flu shot, because for one, I never fall ill as I eat a highly specialized diet/supplements, and secondly, even if I did fall ill, I'd rather fall ill than run the risk of serious complications (in the case of the flu shot). [Risk outweighs the benefit].

Again... it is always an analysis of... cost vs. benefit. I am no sissy when it comes to medical procedures. That's for sure.

 

[kmohoruk]

I know that this logic may seem to be a bit silly. But every year I seem to get a cold, but I've never really gotten the flu before (Or at least from what I can remember). I guess my way of thinking is...

"Well, I haven't seem to have gotten the flu for a long time, so why jinx the trend!"

It seems every year that the flu seems to get nastier and nastier - so maybe I might start getting the shot next year.

 

[dboy]

When a leading CDC authority who holds an M.D. degree and a Ph.D. in public health and epidemiology tells me that there are no reliable and verifiable studies suggesting that there are any appreciable side effects from taking the flu vaccine, it's enough science for me. It may not be enough science for you, @dboy, which is perfectly fine. But it's enough for me.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

Even people with PhD's can be wrong. I have one myself so I know (although nothing to do with medicine). Qualifications and positions of apparent authority do not impress me so much, especially when they suggest alack of impartiality. The argument and the evidence is what interests me.

There are plenty of examples on the internet of people who seem to have been harmed by these vaccines. Now statistics might say there are not enough for this to be considered significant. But it does not mean that in no cases has harm been caused. There is a popular saying about lies, damned lies and statistics.

Aside from the very rare cases of serious harm (which may not be statistically significant, but which nobody will ever make right), I think the following passage from Dr Brogan's article is key:

"The CDC can report, as they do, that brain inflammation and death are known side effects of every vaccine, but most do not appreciate what brain inflammation looks like. That this can look like ADHD, autism, learning delay, and that autoimmune disorders can take years to manifest. Tracing the thread back to the vaccine exposure can only be done with studies that assess vaccinated versus unvaccinated populations. These have not been done."

 

[jimH]

All I can share is my own experience. That is, that I had the flu for the first time 17 years ago. I don't remember what strain it was. But just the fact that I remember that it was 17 years ago ought to tell you something. That said, the experience was sufficiently unpleasant enough that I have been getting flu shots every year since then. That's because I never wanted to get it that bad again. The only effect I experienced afterwards was a little local soreness at the location where I was injected.

Perhaps some strains are more severe than others. The one that I had was a lot worse than just a bad cold with the addition of a fever. So, for those of you that haven't experienced it, don't assume it's no big deal. Also, I was in perfect health at the time that I became infected.

People that work in jobs where they come in contact with the public or work in an office at close quarters with others, and ride elevators, etc. are at greater risk. Finally, if you live with other family members, should you become infected, you just might infect some of them.

 

[jazz]

People that work in jobs where they come in contact with the public or work in an office at close quarters with others, and ride elevators, etc. are at greater risk.

Very true. Some people are at more risk than others. And getting the flu may increase your risk for an ear infection, which could worsen your tinnitus. (My own tinnitus resulted from a severe viral infection that resulted in two ruptured ear drums.) That said, getting the flu vaccination is not a black-and-white issue. It is complex and involves many moving parts.

Here are some interesting observations from the CDC:

Does the flu vaccine work the same for everyone?
No. While the flu vaccine is the single best way to prevent the flu, protection can vary widely depending on who is being vaccinated (in addition to how well matched the flu vaccine is with circulating viruses). In general, the flu vaccine works best among healthy adults and older children. Some older people and people with certain chronic illnesses might develop less immunity than healthy children and adults after vaccination. However, even for these people, the flu vaccine still may provide some protection. [italics added]

How effective is the flu vaccine in the elderly?
Older people with weaker immune systems often have a lower protective immune response after flu vaccination compared to younger, healthier people. This can result in lower vaccine effectiveness in these people.

If vaccine works less well in older people should they still get vaccinated?
Despite the fact that flu vaccines can work less well in people who are 65 and older, there are many reasons why people in that age group should be vaccinated each year. [Please see the link below for the CDC's list of reasons.]

Do recent vaccine effectiveness study results support flu vaccination?
The large numbers of flu-associated illnesses and deaths in the United States, combined with the evidence from many studies showing that flu vaccines help to provide protection, support the current U.S. flu vaccination recommendations. It's important to note, however, that how well flu vaccines work will continue to vary each year, depending especially on the match between the flu vaccine and the flu viruses that are spreading and causing illness in the community, as well as the characteristics of the person being vaccinated. [italics added]

Besides vaccination, how can people protect themselves against the flu?
Getting a flu vaccine each year is the best way to prevent the flu. Antiviral drugs are an important second line of defense against the flu. These drugs must be prescribed by a doctor. In addition, good health habits, such as covering your cough and frequently washing your hands with soap, can help prevent the spread of the flu and other respiratory illnesses.
​

Reference:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm#present-data​

 

[jazz]

Even people with PhD's can be wrong. I have one myself so I know (although nothing to do with medicine). Qualifications and positions of apparent authority do not impress me so much, especially when they suggest alack of impartiality. The argument and the evidence is what interests me.

Agreed. No one is infallible. And wisdom lies less in knowledge and more in knowing the limitation of knowledge. After all, questions are the engines of intellect, not answers.

 

[dboy]

Agreed. No one is infallible. And wisdom lies less in knowledge and more in knowing the limitation of knowledge. After all, questions are the engines of intellect, not answers.

Very true. My posts might seem to suggest that I am anti vaccination. In reality I am anti the idea that anything so complex and fraught with uncertainty can be dealt with in absolute terms. Especially when the stakes are so high.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

In reality I am anti the idea that anything so complex and fraught with uncertainty can be dealt with in absolute terms. Especially when the stakes are so high.

And I took the vaccine without giving it a second thought. Have done so every year since it became available. Very simple decision, really. Two different ways of viewing the world, I guess.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[dboy]

And I took the vaccine without giving it a second thought. Have done so every year since it became available. Very simple decision, really. Two different ways of viewing the world, I guess.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

With respect, you did not simply take the vaccine yourself, you told the members of the forum that we are under an obligation to take it and that to not do so was 'the height of irresponsibility'. You also relayed and supported a claim that alternative information was 'hysteria'.

I am glad that the vaccine has not harmed you. There do appear to have been some people who were not so lucky.

 

[Grace]

Yeah, my sis came down with a bad case of the flu few weeks back..had a 102.9 fever along with a diagnose of whooping cough.. She was sooo sick that everyone around her was like oh shit you have ebola! But duh she didnt she just happened to get a real bad case of the flu and they ended up givin her z pack ( zithromycin) for like a week along with duraflu or something and it kicked the shit out of the flu she was back up and workin within 3 days.. I ran right to my doc and got my flu shot cause i hate being sick and every year that i get it, i dont get sick. Could be coincidence but idc to me the flu shot being harmful is like a needle in a haystack. Not looking for arguments, just posting my opinion and ofcoarse everyone has the right to reject the shot and not get it which is totally fine too! --- and after my sis got sick, she gave it too my mom who also needed antibiotics. Now were all vaccinated thankgod cause i hate being sick.

All I can share is my own experience. That is, that I had the flu for the first time 17 years ago. I don't remember what strain it was. But just the fact that I remember that it was 17 years ago ought to tell you something. That said, the experience was sufficiently unpleasant enough that I have been getting flu shots every year since then. That's because I never wanted to get it that bad again. The only effect I experienced afterwards was a little local soreness at the location where I was injected.

Perhaps some strains are more severe than others. The one that I had was a lot worse than just a bad cold with the addition of a fever. So, for those of you that haven't experienced it, don't assume it's no big deal. Also, I was in perfect health at the time that I became infected.

People that work in jobs where they come in contact with the public or work in an office at close quarters with others, and ride elevators, etc. are at greater risk. Finally, if you live with other family members, should you become infected, you just might infect some of them.

 

[awbw8]

I think we could go on with this forever, but since this is a tinnitus board, I think the point is, the flu vaccine is probably not going to alter your T (at least from experiences here.) The flu can certainly mess with your T though. If you get that, it can lead to other infections, which may lead to needing heavy antibiotics which we know can be terrible for T. Not to mention having to listen to it blare when your ears are plugged up or infected.

It's interesting to me that there are just as many articles online about people dying from flu as there are about people getting stricken by the flu vaccine. Yet the argument is always, "I'm not getting the vaccine because I don't want side effects." Rather than, "I'm getting the vaccine because I don't want the flu." Which is really riskier?

We're used to the flu seeming innocuous exactly because we have things like the flu vaccine, but it can kill and it wasn't so long ago it was taking lives on a pandemic scale. Less than 100 years ago influenza took approximately 50 million lives worldwide. Many of those people were healthy young adults.

Of course, that was a while ago, but it still kills, even with all our modern advances:

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cold-flu/flu-killing-more-young-adults-year-cdc-says-n34686
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20140107/NEWS01/301070023/Flu-kills-young-adult-woman-Melbourne
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/healthy-texas-mom-dies-flu-29/story?id=21467701

These days it seems like vaccines are being made out to be the problem when they're the solution. A perfect solution, no, but the solution. Let's give that vaccine a little love

 

[Dr. Nagler]

With respect, you did not simply take the vaccine yourself, you told the members of the forum that we are under an obligation to take it and that to not do so was 'the height of irresponsibility'. You also relayed and supported a claim that alternative information was 'hysteria'.

Right. That's my carefully considered opinion.

But, @dboy, here's a secret: You don't have to agree with me.

Now I'm going to back out of this thread and simply wish you well.

Dr. Stephen Nagler