Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[FGG]

Is there any way that I can find out 100% that I have had an ototoxic reaction? Is there any test that can prove it? Anything else I could do?

There is no diagnostic test for ototoxicity but if you took a drug known to be very ototoxic, or at an ototoxic dose then your history can be very suggestive of it.

 

[all to gain]

You can test what kind of hearing loss you have (sensorineural or conductive), but not the cause. Of course, if you feel your hearing dropped after a certain event, it's likely that's what caused it. Presently there's no indication FX-322 is more or less effective for certain causes of sensorineural hearing loss.

Can I test what kind of hearing loss I have simply from an audiogram? I don't want the whole array of tests as I don't want to risk making my tinnitus louder.

 

[all to gain]

There is no diagnostic test for ototoxicity but if you took a drug known to be very ototoxic, or at an ototoxic dose then your history can be very suggestive of it.

It came on when I had a combination of Prozac and Propranolol. The dose of Prozac was upped from 20 mg to 60 mg in one go without going to 40 mg first. I was stressed at the time too and not being active, i.e. lying in bed a lot of the time. Then a month or so later an MRI made my tinnitus worse (I think).

 

[FGG]

Can I test what kind of hearing loss I have simply from an audiogram? I don't want the whole array of tests as I don't want to risk making my tinnitus louder.

They can use air vs bone conduction on an audiogram. Your audiologist should be able to help you with that.

 

[Aleksa Uzunovic]

But how likely is that? It would be great if it were true though.

If it's not a secret, which country are you in on your avatar photo? Looking at the buildings (and your name) a few have come to mind?

I mean, it should cure it completely. I'm in UAE bro.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

Dude/dudette, I share your concern about ototoxic drugs. They seem to just decimate hearing in ways few things can. Instantly losing my fully functioning hearing bilaterally and being launched into a world of distortion, muffled sounds, decreased clarity and much louder tinnitus (and hyperacusis initially) is by far the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to me.

((Hug)). I *completely* understand the hopelessness and the anxiety.

But, I do have hope. For one thing, one of the ways they test these drugs in lab animals is by inducing hair cell and ribbon synapse loss (etc) with ototoxic drugs.

Will this cure be in the next 5 years? I'm not sure. In my lifetime, I truly think so. And when I'm older, instead of wishing to be young again, i know i will cry of happiness every day to be alive with my hearing and music and peace and joy again.

Imagine 20 years ago. No one even talked about regenerative medicine. There is at least hope now.

In my case, i strongly suspect i have brain stem hearing loss, too, but even *then* i think they will tackle that with (better and more specific) potassium ion channel opening drugs, too. It's a matter of time. I really believe that.

I'm sorry that it's obviously so hard on you, @all to gain and everyone else who suffers so much with this. It will be our time again. Hang in there.

Dr. Thanos might be able to snap all the problems away.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

It came on when I had a combination of Prozac and Propranolol. The dose of Prozac was upped from 20 mg to 60 mg in one go without going to 40 mg first. I was stressed at the time too and not being active, i.e. lying in bed a lot of the time. Then a month or so later an MRI made my tinnitus worse (I think).

Do you have any noticeable hearing loss? If you have enough hearing, the upcoming neuromodulation devices may be enough to keep the tinnitus in check.

For your earlier question, FX-322 does appear to be safer, in that it won't deplete the supporting cells, but that's why it's still in trials. They have to verify safety and efficacy first.

Longterm wise, they are still working on drugs specifically for tinnitus along with these hearing restoration drugs. You should look into the work of Dr. Thanos Tzounopoulos of the University of Pittsburg and Dr. Shaowen Bao of the University of Arizona. I think you already know about this one, but it looks like the Hough Ear Institute has a great pill in the works too, for both hearing loss and tinnitus.

 

[FGG]

Dr. Thanos might be able to snap all the problems away.

It's a nice thought, but he's working on a different channel than the one I think was affected in my case. Autifony's drug may have helped me if I only got to try it.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

It's a nice thought, but he's working on a different channel than the one I think was affected in my case. Autifony's drug may have helped me if I only got to try it.

Maybe you should email him. The treatment for tinnitus is only one area he has looked into, probably his focus, but I know he studies other areas of hearing disorders too. He might have some idea of what's going on.

 

[JohnAdams]

I mean, it should cure it completely.

Don't be so sure about that.

 

[Earing]

I thought they discovered years ago that the cilia in our intestines are the same cilia in our ears, but the ones in our intestines do regrow. They spent like 10 years to find out why, and discovered there are inhibitors that keep the cells in the ears from regenerating. FX-322 is supposed to allow the cells to regenerate.

 

[Aleksa Uzunovic]

Don't be so sure about that.

Let's see the results next year. It's either Frequency Therapeutics or Audion at this point.

 

[JohnAdams]

Let's see the results next year. It's either Frequency Therapeutics or Audion at this point.

Both. Same thing basically.

 

[Walid5]

Knowing for sure that a real cure will come up in the near future would give us so much power and patience until it really comes up.

 

[HootOwl]

I apologize but I'm looking for a little clarification. The goal of FX 322 is to regrow hair cells, but we don't know yet if it would reestablish meaningful connections with the synapses and nerve correct?

Also while I know OTO-413 is looking to treat synaptopathy with BDNF, are there any drugs in the pipeline for neuropathy? Since I have distorted high frequency reactive tinnitus, I'm worried that I have nerve damage in addition to synapse damage. Or am I incorrect in thinking that my sound distortion is due to nerve and not synapse damage? For example if I listen to crickets/fans/wind the sound is a lot tinnier and there's a whistle on top of it, but voices and music sound completely normal.

If it's neuropathy and not just synaptopathy am I screwed?

 

[JohnAdams]

The goal of FX 322 is to regrow hair cells, but we don't know yet if it would reestablish meaningful connections with the synapses and nerve correct?

We know it does reestablish meaningful connections.

 

[FGG]

I apologize but I'm looking for a little clarification. The goal of FX 322 is to regrow hair cells, but we don't know yet if it would reestablish meaningful connections with the synapses and nerve correct?

Also while I know OTO-413 is looking to treat synaptopathy with BDNF, are there any drugs in the pipeline for neuropathy? Since I have distorted high frequency reactive tinnitus, I'm worried that I have nerve damage in addition to synapse damage. Or am I incorrect in thinking that my sound distortion is due to nerve and not synapse damage? For example if I listen to crickets/fans/wind the sound is a lot tinnier and there's a whistle on top of it, but voices and music sound completely normal.

If it's neuropathy and not just synaptopathy am I screwed?

As far as I understand, meaningful connection gets reestablished. I'm also not sure clinically how to distinguish between neuropathy vs synaptopathy but I believe the treatment for synaptopathy revitalizes the nerves and their connections.

 

[HootOwl]

As far as I understand, meaningful connection gets reestablished. I'm also not sure clinically how to distinguish between neuropathy vs synaptopathy but I believe the treatment for synaptopathy revitalizes the nerves and their connections.

So in a way, if you treat synaptopathy, you are treating neuropathy at the same time. At least, that's the idea. I'm trying to cling to every little bit of hope there is.

 

[mrbrightside614]

I apologize but I'm looking for a little clarification. The goal of FX 322 is to regrow hair cells, but we don't know yet if it would reestablish meaningful connections with the synapses and nerve correct?

Also while I know OTO-413 is looking to treat synaptopathy with BDNF, are there any drugs in the pipeline for neuropathy? Since I have distorted high frequency reactive tinnitus, I'm worried that I have nerve damage in addition to synapse damage. Or am I incorrect in thinking that my sound distortion is due to nerve and not synapse damage? For example if I listen to crickets/fans/wind the sound is a lot tinnier and there's a whistle on top of it, but voices and music sound completely normal.

If it's neuropathy and not just synaptopathy am I screwed?

If it's neuropathy, you might try your hand at Acetyl-L-Carnitine. Not an overnight fix, but it has some promising properties in regards to nerve regeneration. And even if it doesn't work for the tinnitus, it's a Swiss Army knife of a supplement.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19664977/

Do we know if Audion or Frequency Therapeutics is any further along than the other?

 

[Jurger]

I apologize but I'm looking for a little clarification. The goal of FX 322 is to regrow hair cells, but we don't know yet if it would reestablish meaningful connections with the synapses and nerve correct?

Also while I know OTO-413 is looking to treat synaptopathy with BDNF, are there any drugs in the pipeline for neuropathy? Since I have distorted high frequency reactive tinnitus, I'm worried that I have nerve damage in addition to synapse damage. Or am I incorrect in thinking that my sound distortion is due to nerve and not synapse damage? For example if I listen to crickets/fans/wind the sound is a lot tinnier and there's a whistle on top of it, but voices and music sound completely normal.

If it's neuropathy and not just synaptopathy am I screwed?

Rinri Therapeutics is working on a stem cell treatment for neuropathy. I think neuropathy is when spiral ganglion neurons are damaged/destroyed.

 

[HootOwl]

We know it does reestablish meaningful connections.

Do you think it will help with distortion/amplification feedback to everyday sounds? And most importantly reactive tinnitus?

 

[Caveman]

I apologize but I'm looking for a little clarification. The goal of FX 322 is to regrow hair cells, but we don't know yet if it would reestablish meaningful connections with the synapses and nerve correct?

Also while I know OTO-413 is looking to treat synaptopathy with BDNF, are there any drugs in the pipeline for neuropathy? Since I have distorted high frequency reactive tinnitus, I'm worried that I have nerve damage in addition to synapse damage. Or am I incorrect in thinking that my sound distortion is due to nerve and not synapse damage? For example if I listen to crickets/fans/wind the sound is a lot tinnier and there's a whistle on top of it, but voices and music sound completely normal.

If it's neuropathy and not just synaptopathy am I screwed?

I guess your hearing loss is in the higher frequencies, hence the whistle only when you listen to high-pitched noises... some people here claim they have seen improvements in the high frequency spectrum thanks to a supplement called Nicotinamide Riboside, you should check it out!

 

[JohnAdams]

Do you think it will help with distortion/amplification feedback to everyday sounds? And most importantly reactive tinnitus?

I dunno.

 

[FGG]

I guess your hearing loss is in the higher frequencies, hence the whistle only when you listen to high-pitched noises... some people here claim they have seen improvements in the high frequency spectrum thanks to a supplement called Nicotinamide Riboside, you should check it out!

I'm one of them. My actual hearing isn't at all better on NAD+ but I don't react to the refrigerator etc anymore. I can't say for sure whether it was NAD or time (or something else) but I would say that part at least is much better for me.

 

[Caveman]

I'm one of them. My actual hearing isn't at all better on NAD+ but I don't react to the refrigerator etc anymore. I can't say for sure whether it was NAD or time (or something else) but I would say that part at least is much better for me.

That's good to hear! I'm going to take it along with Pterostilbene + Resveratrol, as David Sinclair suggests.

 

[RingingBrother]

Do you guys think FX-322 has a good shot at passing phase 2 and making it to phase 3?
I've heard a lot of new drugs don't make it through this phase.

 

[Jurger]

Do you guys think FX-322 has a good shot at passing phase 2 and making it to phase 3?
I've heard a lot of new drugs don't make it through this phase.

They'll do a Phase 2b first after the current phase. It's very hard to tell. The results of the Phase 1/2 trial give me reason to be both optimistic and cautious. We don't know what multiple injections will do. If I had to bet then, yes, I think this will pass all trials, but it won't work for everyone and it won't be a cure for most (meaning full recovery). It probably will, however, improve hearing and related diseases for a lot of people.

I also think finding a way to improve drug delivery could improve the duration, concentration and location of any hearing restoration drug and improve it's efficacy significantly. We've seen it before. Think oral steroids versus intratympanic dexamethasone or prednisolone.

 

[Caveman]

They'll do a Phase 2b first after the current phase. It's very hard to tell. The results of the Phase 1/2 trial give me reason to be both optimistic and cautious. We don't know what multiple injections will do. If I had to bet then, yes, I think this will pass all trials, but it won't work for everyone and it won't be a cure for most (meaning full recovery). It probably will, however, improve hearing and related diseases for a lot of people. I think finding a way to improve drug delivery could both improve the duration, concentration and location of any hearing restoration drugs and improve it's efficacy significantly. We've seen it before. Think oral steroids versus intratympanic dexamethasone of prednisolone.

A combination of FX-322 and Regain's gamma-secretase inhibitor might do the trick!

 

[JohnAdams]

A combination of FX-322 and Regain's gamma-secretase inhibitor might do the trick!

There's no point!

FX-322 divides the supporting cells AND regrows the hair cell. Regain just regrows the hair cell.

FX-322 = hearing burger and fries
Audion (Regain) = hearing burger only

 

[Jurger]

A combination of FX-322 and Regain's gamma-secretase inhibitor might do the trick!

I don't see either of those drugs reaching the apex of the cochlea so it probably won't be effective for low frequency hearing loss. Some people suggest multiple injections might overcome that, but I think the apical and basal turns of the cochlea are the bottleneck. You can pour all the drugs in you want, if it doesn't reach the target, it doesn't reach the target.

Having said that, a combination therapy might work to provide more hair cells than either as a stand alone treatment.