And Spiral's bn119 drug appears to also regenerate myelin from auditory neurons. Could it help decrease tinnitus? What Differences With Decibel Therapeutics? And if the hearing loss is treated with several drugs ..?
Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration
- Thread starter RB2014
- Start date
Member- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
Well as far as I know according to Liberman who cooperates with Decibel this is indeed possible, since synapses are first to die you may have synaptopathy with HC remaining untouched. As I understand it the HC detached from the nerve cells due to lost synaptic connection would still send the signal, but the signal would just not reach its recepient. Still this is only a theory and I do understand your point. I do hope though that Liberman is right and regenerating synapses would be enough to fix the T if HC are not demaged, since according to scientists regeneration of synapses should be easier than regenarating lost HCs (I can't quote exactly where does this statement come from but I recently saw a paper saying that).
I wonder if activating the dormant progenitor cells, like FT is aiming to do, will deplete these cells. So in effect, you can only do this treatment once. If I remember correct I read that this is not expected to be the case.
When animal data showed restored hearing (or partly restored hearing), that should be the case. In animals that is.
With "hidden hearing loss" that could account for many problems. (Tinnitus, hard of hearing in noisy surroundings and perhaps even more), not all synapses disconnect from a hair cell. The first ones to go are the ones for higher sound levels. This does not show up in an audiogram. So these hair cells still work for lower sound levels. This is what I understand.
Also, outer hair cells are the first you lose. That must be after loss of synapses on inner hair cells? Loss of outer hair cells is visible on an audiogram.
So the inner hair cells are the last to "survive" the abuse
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- May 7, 2015
- 1,045
- Tinnitus Since
- 29.09/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma using headphones
I have never really got this. I mean, which ever cause, you either get input reaching the brain, or you do not. Or will it cause less or weaker input? Thus not be shown obvious in an audiogram, Is that the idea?
Isolated damage to OHC, I do not think will be shown in an audiogram. The have i different approach to establish that, called "Otoacoustic Emission Test", I believe. This could only be done up to 4 kHz though, but I believe recently they have been able to extend it to 8kHz. I´m not sure if they can pin-point the severity of the damage though.
Thats probably true!
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
Are any of these companies public (you can buy shares in)?
We could be the ones onto something here that could be a huge market
So I read the graphs and already Genvec's trial is just reaching end of phase one.
Could somebody please tell me what difference is between Frequency and Genvec? When could their treatment be on the market?
We could be the ones onto something here that could be a huge market
So I read the graphs and already Genvec's trial is just reaching end of phase one.
Could somebody please tell me what difference is between Frequency and Genvec? When could their treatment be on the market?
My man. Lets pray for effective and sooner drug in the market. FT CEO said that product will be available on market within 3-5yrs l.
That is my understanding.
Probably a section of outer hair cells will. The outer hair cells provide an extra 40-60 dB sensitivity. So that is also what we can loose if outer hair cells get damaged.
I hope that the Frequency Therapeutics Progenitor Cell Activation principle will replace both inner and outer hair cells.
It has to. Otherwise we will not see improved audiograms
I have read that OHC is not as easy to regenerate, is there any scientific reason for this?
Also, lets say one only has synaptopathy, but the HC itself is alive and kicking.
Firstly, is this even possible? Would´nt you think that when the synapses are retracting from the cell it would be of no use to the brain and die? Can it be like with our teeth, when the nerves connected to it dies, the tooth would too? Maybe this is not the case anyway.
Can the synapses bee seen as a root, nourishing the associated HC? And when they retracts the HC will die as well?
Is it possible that FTX´s drug will pinpoint synaptopathy and replace it with a new HC or will the HC in it self have tobe dead and gone for it to program a new one?
That is a great question, its one of the issues that is raised for regeneration, what remains after an injury? I have come across conflicting reports on this, where a cochlear or vestibular neuritis occurs it is possible that the offending pathogen does not actually cause irreversible damage, instead the swelling of the nerve crushes it against the bony structures deep inside the temporal bone, in vestibular neuritis it has been noted that the disorder for some reason almost always spares the inferior nerve branch, some speculate that the pathogen does actually get into both superior and inferior nerve branches but that because the inferior nerve has multiple vascular routes it can survive the assault whereas the larger nerve with a more limited pathway for oxygenated blood, does not. Space is tight in the inner ear and this anatomical feature may have a lot to do with why such injuries are so difficult for the body to deal with, when compared with say facial nerve palsy where full recovery is regularly seen in many subjects (see Mark Ruffalo's story). Last I heard (2014) the crowd at Maastricht were getting funding for this work as the disease processes are so poorly understood. Objective tests to reveal which exact parts of the ear are still functional and which are not are essential. If anyone knows details on the vascular structures underneath ohc's please do share your comments.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
- May 7, 2015
- 1,045
- Tinnitus Since
- 29.09/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma using headphones
Im sorry, I did not get any of that except for maybe the last sentence, which hopefully tells the gist of it
Sometimes I really miss more "rating options" to choose from, like "interesting", so at least I could hide behind that in this case
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- May 7, 2015
- 1,045
- Tinnitus Since
- 29.09/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma using headphones
lol No, that's Stefan Effenberg you are looking at! I was born in Ireland and lived in Europe for a while. I worked in the legal sector until I suffered an ear injury in 2011, the workload was too much so I work in I.T. now. I just spend a lot of time reading papers and cold calling labs is all, I get an enormous satisfaction from making them feel uncomfortable, its important to use the gifts life gives you!
Free international calls thanks Virgin Media! Now no more talking about myself! Back to the thread!
Interesting to note how far they've come in 4 years.
http://journals.lww.com/thehearingj...l___Taking_Hair_Cell_Regeneration_Up_a.2.aspx
http://journals.lww.com/thehearingj...l___Taking_Hair_Cell_Regeneration_Up_a.2.aspx
- Mar 16, 2017
- 102
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/15 got worse 11/16
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Earbuds, inner ear infection NHL and high frequency loss
Amazing in another 4 year where will we be. At a better place then now. Thanks you for this!
I am very sure this is no full hearing assessment. I tested my hearing between standard frequencies and I noticed great differences for example between 4 khz and 4.25 khz. Maybe you should search for "gaps" in your hearing. Try this:
1. use a frequency generator program (for android: search for "signal generator" in the playstore). Also: use earphones.
2. go to a frequency you hear well, for example 1khz
3. set it as silent as possible, but so lound that you can notice it well
4. scroll the frequencies while the tone is present and try to notice differences or gaps in the frequencies you scroll
5. mark all gaps and go to you ENT with them
May I ask, are you concerned that removing the support cells will essentially render you ineligible for future cell therapy treatments as in burning your bridges so to speak? I remember you mentioned this as a concern for cgf166 and I must admit I had not given this careful consideration.
I had stem cells recently. With great disappointment and cost it didnt work on me.
Everyone who could afford it would get it if it affects them. People dont get LASIK b/c they get contact lenses. They dont just walk around blind.
there is social stigma with hearing aids. sad, but true.
that said, if there was a device I could use that stopped my tinnitus, and didn't use an amplification system that makes my hearing worse - I'd probably delay a surgery / stem cell treatment as logn as possible
My concern isn't with eligibility for future trials (though I suppose that is a concern). Instead, I am worried about the (as far as I know) unknown consequences of losing supporting cells. They are surely there for a purpose, and I don't think we know what happens if they are depleted.
I think the amount to which it affects them determines whether they prefer contacts, glasses or lasik. Money is a factor, too, but I know quite a few people who could easily afford it but do not care to have laser eye surgery because they're content with glasses or contacts.
Likewise, there are likely people with hearing loss -- thinking specifically of my grandparents' generation -- who are content with hearing aids. Or then there are even people who have tinnitus and hearing loss yet never bothered with a hearing aid, but have habituated so much that they likely would not seek a treatment.
I do agree, though, that anyone severely impacted or in the acute stages would likely seek treatment.
I believe the procedure is their biggest issue. They open a fucking hole through your skull to deliver the drug. Frequency's method is a standard, simple intratympanic injection and the trial is expected to have less restrictive inclusion criteria.
- Nov 8, 2016
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- don't know, hearing loss related?
I second acufenero's opinion. Additionally, don't ask me to post the data (it is buried here somewhere in a thread) the preclinical data results regarding simply the volume of inner ear hair cell regeneration by Frequency blows away Genvec's approach. And the chap from Kansas that we know of didn't see much improvement (maybe a little improvement in his balance). Oh, and they put you under anesthesia and drill a hole on in your head.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
Yep.... know a few people who wouldn't bother seeking treatment for tinnitus because they just don't care about it. I don't know how it drives me mad.
Fabrikat
Member
- May 1, 2017
- 416
- Tinnitus Since
- 1973
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
Tinnitus is pain. Physical and psychological. Just different in form to say, a toothache or a sore knee. It is not part of a properly functioning healthy human body.
As such, those with moderate to severe forms of the condition, will leave claw marks on the doors of treatment centres, in an attempt to gain entry and relief.
I really think people should not expect frequency to eliminate ear pain in the presence of sounds (for those who have it). If the theory of hyperacusis is true that sound interacting with damaged nerve fibers create a pain signal then Frequency's add on a strategy likely won't reduce the pain. If your pain is not due to external sound but from the vibrating of your head then Frequency might work. A hyperacusis fix maybe more likely to come from a company targeting existing nerve fibers... say Spiral or Affichem
It seems like FX started to see if the drug is safe or not.
https://anzctr.org.au/Trial/Registration/TrialReview.aspx?id=372587
https://anzctr.org.au/Trial/Registration/TrialReview.aspx?id=372587
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