They are using multiple doses to reach the lower frequencies based on their presentation. I remember them saying that multiple doses will definitely improve hearing down to 4kHz.
Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration
- Thread starter RB2014
- Start date
Maybe? But the sites in NC are pretty close to each other and they had another one in NC that was already filled when I initially called too. It would seem weird that they couldn't fill sites close to each other if they were just having trouble recruiting versus also trying to expand their overall numbers. Maybe NC is an exception though?
MemberThanks for keeping me off the ledge with your thoroughly informative assessment. Also it turns out there's a 25dB difference between right and left ears (-15, 10) @ 16kHz so I'm assuming there's some OHC loss there. 10dB difference at 6kHz (0, 10) and 5dB differences across the board above 9kHz.
I'm wondering if the reason that many have issues with matching their tinnitus frequency is because it's some kind of amalgamation of all differently damaged frequency registers, with the biggest region of loss taking the "forefront."
I was looking at the difference between IHC and OHC and found this on Wikipedia.
Since Frequency Therapeutics restores both inner and outer hair cells then this should help all of us.
So in theory those who just have tinnitus will need more inner hair cells whereas those with hyperacusis need more outer hair cells if we want to reduce pain or loudness sensation.
Since Frequency Therapeutics restores both inner and outer hair cells then this should help all of us.
Not exactly. They haven't worked that out so discreetly as all. I think either IHC, OHC or synapse loss could result in tinnitus, personally through different mechanisms.
Is this shown at 0:58? I assume these rows would be differently termed "inner" and "outer"?
Since we have 15k hair cells and can hear (theoretically) up to 20 kHz, that would mean that a single hair cell would be roughly responsible for 1.33 Hz? Extremely basic math but I find it interesting that the number of hair cells is more or less equal to the level of hertz the human ear is capable of hearing.
There are 3 rows of OHC and then a single separate layer of IHC. You can see the IHCs start to regenerate after about the 1:00 mark.
Pre55ure
Member
Interesting but probably just coincidental, because we hear frequencies on a logarithmic curve - so for every increase of one octave you double the amount of frequencies in that band. For example 1 kHz to 2 kHz is a 1000 Hz difference, but from 2 kHz to 4 kHz is a 2000 Hz difference etc...
I'm not an expert on cochleas but it seems like that would give us an inordinate amount of hair cells devoted to frequencies we almost never use or need (above 12 kHz).
If you have ever looked at an "equal loudness curve" - we actually hear best in the 500 Hz to about 6 kHz range (which makes sense as that's where most speech happens). I would guess that we probably have a disproportionately higher amount of hair cells in those regions.
Then again, I'm just a guy on the internet speculating about stuff I really don't know about, so don't put too much stock in that.
Ah. Was that the synapse connecting there after the hair cells regenerated?
We need this drug to be conditionally approved. Literally every vet I've spoken to says it takes 2-3 years to get anything appropriately up the chain of command. By that time major therapies will already be released and our efforts largely wasted.
No, I think you're right. There's no way it's an even distribution of 1HC—1.33hz. This would suggest that restoration of 8khz+ would have significantly fewer hair cells devoted and in need of restoration.
Again, my theory is that a FX322 or any drug that penetrates the round window couldn't/wouldn't discriminate as to what hair cells are devoted to its respective frequencies' restoration. I'm convinced the difficulty that patients have with matching their tinnitus tone is because it is a chaotic mess of the undocumented, damaged microfrequencies/untested hair cells. If this drug reaches 8khz and can even just deliver 5dB differences (unlike the 10dB demonstrated in 4/15 patients), I find it likely that it will indiscriminantly restore the hair cells corresponding to their respective frequencies, starting at the hair cells at the base of the cochlea (corresponding to 20khz) and fill in all of the "cracks" of hearing loss that contribute to the T tone. I don't see how I could be wrong unless IHC's play a bigger role in T. In which case, I pray that FGG is right and that it proportionally restores IHCs.
I'm wondering if supplementing with NT3/NGF increasing products would bolster the therapy or inhibit it in some way. I'd probably be too nervous to fuck it up to throw Astaxanthin/Lutein and ALCAR/Lion's mane into the mix come the day of this drugs triumphant arrival.
It was released by Frequency. I would like to think they know what their drug does and had it animated properly.
I think Astaxanthin helped me a bit but agree. I am not going to be mixing drugs when this arrives.
I am totally confused. I have tinnitus and hyperacusis for 9 months due to ototoxin frying hair cells. I have no hearing loss. So, will any of the forthcoming discoveries help me? If so, which ones? Thank you.
Which ototoxin? And did you do an extended audiogram or just up to 8000 Hz?
I think this will help all of us. So far the only 2 that I think that would work for both tinnitus and hyperacusis are FX-322 and Audion Therapeutics.
Audion Therapeutics phase 2 results will be released end of April. Frequency Therapeutics phase 2a results will be released end of September.
Hopefully they go directly to Phase 3 with a slight chance of releasing the drug during Phase 3.
I wouldn't trust your audiogram, they're largely trash. Refer to my post above about all of the undocumented frequencies or "notches" that I believe of which tinnitus is comprised. If I recall correctly, some drugs preferentially deplete IHC's (antibiotics?)
If hair cell death this the cause of your tinnitus FX-322 should almost certainly help you. OHC loss usually = changes in audiogram, but here I argue a between-ear comparison at each respective frequency tested is more valuable than a comparison to known standard (e.g. there is a 25dB difference between my right ear [-10] and my tinnitus ear [15] at 16000 Hz and although 15dB doesn't even register as "mild hearing loss," it could be seen as a loss compared to my right ear's standard).
As FGG has reported above, it could very well be that FX-322 regenerates both OHC and IHC in similar proportions.
If I get better and go back to my career, I will donate to all of the Tinnitus Talk member GoFundMes if cost is an issue. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
At this stage we are not sure. If Phase 2a results end of September are positive which I believe 100% it will there is a slight chance they could release the drug after Phase 2a depending on @FGG's letter to the FDA.
- Sep 21, 2016
- 1,051
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011 - T, 2016- H, relapsed 2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- noise-induced
This also makes me wonder how long it would take to become available on the UK's NHS if it were successful and went to market. Although I reckon I would happily fly over to the United States and get it ASAP if it works.
@mrbrightside614
Thank you. How do you know all this? I am so way behind on even knowing what IHC and OHC means. Totally embarrassing. I will refer to your previous post as suggested. I too lifted weights well into my 50s. Height 6-2 weight when lifting 185/ 190. Zero fat. Used to curl using barbells 145 Ibs for reps. Miss it now. Even at 60. Now I miss everything like seeing my beautiful wife smile. Oh this crap hurts. I thank all of guys for posting these discoveries. The post are just as inspiring as success stories. Dang it, one day we all will have success stories.
Thank you. How do you know all this? I am so way behind on even knowing what IHC and OHC means. Totally embarrassing. I will refer to your previous post as suggested. I too lifted weights well into my 50s. Height 6-2 weight when lifting 185/ 190. Zero fat. Used to curl using barbells 145 Ibs for reps. Miss it now. Even at 60. Now I miss everything like seeing my beautiful wife smile. Oh this crap hurts. I thank all of guys for posting these discoveries. The post are just as inspiring as success stories. Dang it, one day we all will have success stories.
Doubtful. I'm getting a settlement from the douche that caused all this, so money will be no barrier for me. I could see $3k-10k easily.
Honestly most of what I know is just a layman's distillation courtesy of the multi-dimensional, thorough and brilliant relay team we have here composed of @FGG, @HootOwl and @JohnAdams. I've been lifting anyways with 32NRR earplugs—like Will Hunting would say, "because fuck 'em, that's why."
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