Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[mrbrightside614]

Here we go again.. getting back on the synaptopathy or hair cell damage research/article swap carousel again!

I for one am looking forward to what Carl LeBel from Frequency Therapeutics will be discussing on the upcoming Tinnitus Talk Podcast. Perhaps that will put a lot of these revolving discussions to bed.

@FGG, @mrbrightside614, would you be interested or able to provide this discussion with any updates/reminders on a regular basis to keep the upcoming Tinnitus Talk Podcast at "top of mind?" It's already buried a few pages back.

I'll keep you guys in the loop. @FGG has a cool thing in the works to make this thread easier to navigate.

 

[Ben S]

Another question that could be asked during the interview is whether or not the newly formed hair cells and their synapses will be a strong as the ones we are born with? Or will we have to be forever cautious since they may be considerably more fragile?

This is definitely a concern to me.

 

[serendipity1996]

Another question that could be asked during the interview is whether or not the newly formed hair cells and their synapses will be a strong as the ones we are born with? Or will we have to be forever cautious since they may be considerably more fragile?

This is definitely a concern to me.

Good point and to add to that - would it potentially be viable for patients to receive, say, multiple treatments?

 

[AtlasFainted]

Another question that could be asked during the interview is whether or not the newly formed hair cells and their synapses will be a strong as the ones we are born with? Or will we have to be forever cautious since they may be considerably more fragile?

This is definitely a concern to me.

Good news, I believe @mrbrightside614 has already stated that he's going to try to make this a question in the Tinnitus Talk Podcast (it was a few pages back in this thread).

 

[JohnDoe8776059]

Another question that could be asked during the interview is whether or not the newly formed hair cells and their synapses will be a strong as the ones we are born with? Or will we have to be forever cautious since they may be considerably more fragile?

This is definitely a concern to me.

I also wonder whether if these newly formed hair cells will completely grow back or only partially grow back? The same goes for damaged areas: does this medicine always trigger the growth of damaged areas when it reaches there? Will they also be as good as the original hair cells that we were born with?

 

[mrbrightside614]

Good point and to add to that - would it potentially be viable for patients to receive, say, multiple treatments?

Another question that could be asked during the interview is whether or not the newly formed hair cells and their synapses will be a strong as the ones we are born with? Or will we have to be forever cautious since they may be considerably more fragile?

This is definitely a concern to me.

I also wonder whether if these newly formed hair cells will completely grow back or only partially grow back? The same goes for damaged areas: does this medicine always trigger the growth of damaged areas when it reaches there? Will they also be as good as the original hair cells that we were born with?

Yep, I have these points covered.

Just a hunch, but if this therapy doesn't retrofit a support cell as a new hair cell (like Regain) but instead creates a brand new hair cell from an SC with presumed cellular integrity, I don't think we have much to worry about the new HC's resistance (or lack thereof) to trauma. If anything, I would think it's more resistant since it hasn't been degraded over time.

 

[AtlasFainted]

Yep, I have these points covered.

Just a hunch, but if this therapy doesn't retrofit a support cell as a new hair cell (like Regain) but instead creates a brand new hair cell from an SC with presumed cellular integrity, I don't think we have much to worry about the new HC's resistance (or lack thereof) to trauma. If anything, I would think it's more resistant since it hasn't been degraded over time.

This is my line of thought as well. I also did some more thinking about synapse damage as it pertains to my case:

While it's likely I have damaged/disconnected synapses in my inner ear, I went for a walk yesterday and thought about the early FX-322 trials done in mice. FX-322 regenerated their inner ear hair cell count from less than 25% to above native levels.

Considering that my right ear is virtually deaf above 10kHz, and my left ear taps out at 17kHz, I think that regenerating the majority of hair cells which correspond to the frequencies I've lost would likely remedy all of the symptoms that I notice (mainly tinnitus and a little less clarity in the right ear). This is, of course, assuming the drug is as effective in humans.

For me that substantial improvement of hair cell count would, in theory, have an impact that for the most part overshadows any synapse damage I have at other frequencies... Not that I wouldn't take one of the upcoming nerve treatments when it comes out, just to cover my bases.

 

[Ben S]

Also @mrbrightside614, maybe something else you could ask is if someone like me with minor or mild hearing damage could expect a full, 100% recovery with the right amount of treatments? Perhaps the drug has a limit with its ability to regenerate.

 

[Tweedleman]

Yep, I have these points covered.

Just a hunch, but if this therapy doesn't retrofit a support cell as a new hair cell (like Regain) but instead creates a brand new hair cell from an SC with presumed cellular integrity, I don't think we have much to worry about the new HC's resistance (or lack thereof) to trauma. If anything, I would think it's more resistant since it hasn't been degraded over time.

This is my thinking exactly. Especially considering the sleight that Frequency threw Audion's way when they said their method was "as nature intended" or something along those lines. This leads me to believe that we are getting brand spankin' new hair cells, grown like they were in the first place.

 

[Tweedleman]

This is my line of thought as well. I also did some more thinking about synapse damage as it pertains to my case:

While it's likely I have damaged/disconnected synapses in my inner ear, I went for a walk yesterday and thought about the early FX-322 trials done in mice. FX-322 regenerated their inner ear hair cell count from less than 25% to above native levels.

Considering that my right ear is virtually deaf above 10kHz, and my left ear taps out at 17kHz, I think that regenerating the majority of hair cells which correspond to the frequencies I've lost would likely remedy all of the symptoms that I notice (mainly tinnitus and a little less clarity in the right ear). This is, of course, assuming the drug is as effective in humans.

For me that substantial improvement of hair cell count would, in theory, have an impact that for the most part overshadows any synapse damage I have at other frequencies... Not that I wouldn't take one of the upcoming nerve treatments when it comes out, just to cover my bases.

FX-322 will probably have the most pronounced effect on us right now, but we are definitely going to want a solid synaptopathy drug, too. Especially if Liberman is right about synaptopathy being a cause for tinnitus. Our noise exposed ears will probably experience age-related synapse loss faster than normal, so imo we are going to want to touch those synapses up asap, too. Or we'll be those 50 year olds who can't make out conversation at our own table in a busy restaurant.

 

[AtlasFainted]

FX-322 will probably have the most pronounced effect on us right now, but we are definitely going to want a solid synaptopathy drug, too. Especially if Liberman is right about synaptopathy being a cause for tinnitus. Our noise exposed ears will probably experience age-related synapse loss faster than normal, so imo we are going to want to touch those synapses up asap, too. Or we'll be those 50 year olds who can't make out conversation at our own table in a busy restaurant.

Yeah I agree, and I will be taking whatever effective synaptopathy drug comes out!

My point is that for me, I am literally deaf (not less hearing, none at all) past a certain frequency in both ears. My tinnitus frequency begins where my hearing ends, in both ears.

This leads be to believe that having those lost frequencies regenerated would fix the worst of my issues, because at those frequencies, my ears are a barren wasteland (little to no hair cells). Which means I would have almost nothing but brand new synapses there after FX-322.

This is also me assuming that synopsis isn't the *main* reason for my deafness, hair cell loss is. I could be wrong of course. You can call it wishful thinking but I also think what we've seen from FX-322 so far supports this.

I'm sure I have synapse damage at the frequencies I can still hear at, but I don't think that is my #1 problem.

 

[Momme]

FX-322 will probably have the most pronounced effect on us right now, but we are definitely going to want a solid synaptopathy drug, too. Especially if Liberman is right about synaptopathy being a cause for tinnitus. Our noise exposed ears will probably experience age-related synapse loss faster than normal, so imo we are going to want to touch those synapses up asap, too. Or we'll be those 50 year olds who can't make out conversation at our own table in a busy restaurant.

Are there any synapse drugs in phase 2?

 

[FGG]

Are there any synapse drugs in phase 2?

OTO-413 is in phase 1/2. Results 4th quarter of this year.

 

[Jorge1984]

Are you guys optimistic that FX-322 will work? And do you guys think it will get rid of tinnitus or at least reduce it?

 

[FGG]

Are you guys optimistic that FX-322 will work? And do you guys think it will get rid of tinnitus or at least reduce it?

Tinnitus is being tested in the current phase but the fact that they added it is clearly good sign.

 

[Tweedleman]

Are you guys optimistic that FX-322 will work? And do you guys think it will get rid of tinnitus or at least reduce it?

And the fact they are coming onto the Tinnitus Talk Podcast is a good sign, too.

 

[Markku]

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but, as a joint decision, and which probably doesn't come as a surprise seeing the current health crisis, the recording of the Frequency Therapeutics interview has been postponed until otherwise announced.

We're planning to set a new date as soon as the situation with the coronavirus calms down.

The question suggestions you've so far sent us haven't gone to waste, and you don't need to submit them again.

and stay healthy, everyone.

 

[Jorge1984]

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but, as a joint decision, and which probably doesn't come as a surprise seeing the current health crisis, the recording of the Frequency Therapeutics interview has been postponed until otherwise announced.

We're planning to set a new date as soon as the situation with the coronavirus calms down.

The question suggestions you've so far sent us haven't gone to waste, and you don't need to submit them again.

and stay healthy, everyone.

I want to cry but at the same time I respect the decision.

 

[Jaysterk]

Regenerative medicine has been proven in animals and in human explants. Phase 1 data suggests it has been proven in vivo, too. The warp drive analogy makes no sense in this context.

A few posts back it was suggested that ALL medical problems are solvable and the more people you throw at the problem, the faster those problems get solved. I still think this is naive. Yes, it helps to have it a higher priority but some problems are inherently difficult. Think of how much money has gone into cancer or muscular dystrophy. Why haven't they been completely cured? I think it's a source of comfort to some to think that the only hurdle to cross is resources.

If cancer was the ONLY condition being cured and every single world economy dropped military funding and it was all geared towards solving cancer, it would get cured. Every type of it. I firmly believe this.

 

[Pink Noise]

I was so looking forward to it. I had my microwave popcorn ready too .

Life throws us all curve balls.

Looking forward to seeing the back of this coronavirus.

Big thanks to @Markku for facilitating these podcasts, as they are really helpful.

 

[mrbrightside614]

I know it's tough to keep your spirits up when life keeps handing you endless numbers of shit sandwiches, but as many have observed, the fact that they're willing to talk with us at all is very heartening. Clearly they saw something in phase one that inclined them to both change their outcome measures and to come talk to us, after months of silence. Thanks for staying persistent @Markku and thanks for your help on the script @FGG.

We're all in this together.

 

[GlennS]

If cancer was the ONLY condition being cured and every single world economy dropped military funding and it was all geared towards solving cancer, it would get cured. Every type of it. I firmly believe this.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't have as much magical faith in human ingenuity to cross every possible bridge as you do.

 

[serendipity1996]

Unfortunate but unsurprising given the circumstances. Glad that it's ultimately still going ahead though - really looking forward to it and there has certainly been no shortage of intelligent and stimulating questions posted here.

And a massive thank you to all those involved in organising the Tinnitus Talk Podcast.

 

[AtlasFainted]

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but, as a joint decision, and which probably doesn't come as a surprise seeing the current health crisis, the recording of the Frequency Therapeutics interview has been postponed until otherwise announced.

We're planning to set a new date as soon as the situation with the coronavirus calms down.

The question suggestions you've so far sent us haven't gone to waste, and you don't need to submit them again.

and stay healthy, everyone.

Well, this blows, but at least they're still going to do the interview with us eventually!

While I am looking forward to both, I'd much rather the podcast be postponed than their actual clinical trial... hopefully, they are still moving ahead on schedule with phase 2a.

 

[Chriscom]

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but, as a joint decision, and which probably doesn't come as a surprise seeing the current health crisis, the recording of the Frequency Therapeutics interview has been postponed until otherwise announced.

We're planning to set a new date as soon as the situation with the coronavirus calms down.

The question suggestions you've so far sent us haven't gone to waste, and you don't need to submit them again.

and stay healthy, everyone.

Totally understandable and 100% the right thing to do.

 

[Tweedleman]

I had hoped we could get a sense from them in the interview if the trials will, or are being delayed by the coronavirus. At this point I'm just going to assume that they are.

 

[AtlasFainted]

I had hoped we could get a sense from them in the interview if the trials will, or are being delayed by the coronavirus. At this point I'm just going to assume that they are.

I don't understand. Is there any reason they wouldn't have announced the trial is being delayed if that were the case?

Do biotech companies just tend to suck at public service announcements? Lol.

 

[Tweedleman]

I don't understand. Is there any reason they wouldn't have announced the trial is being delayed if that were the case?

Do biotech companies just tend to suck at public service announcements? Lol.

I'm not sure what the protocol is. I don't imagine them being obligated to make any announcements other than informing the trial participants and those directly involved of postponings.

 

[AtlasFainted]

I'm not sure what the protocol is. I don't imagine them being obligated to make any announcements other than informing the trial participants and those directly involved of postponings.

Yeah it just seems like they would at least send something out on Twitter. But who knows.

 

[Tweedleman]

Yeah it just seems like they would at least send something out on Twitter. But who knows.

It would be nice of them, so I could add time to my cryosleep accordingly.