Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[FGG]

Don't worry man. Anyone can answer the question. I personally can't wait to put my money to good use. Hopefully we are able to pay in payments.

If they don't, there is something called Carecredit. It's like a credit card for certain health services. It has a high interest rate, but it would be worth it imo.

Totally jumping the gun now but in case people are worried about the cost, there will be options like that I imagine.

 

[serendipity1996]

Frequency have repeatedly mentioned that they are targeting a large market - isn't there like 500m people worldwide affected by hearing loss? So I can definitely see it being *relatively* affordable - I imagine perhaps a few $k per ear? Like $2500 per ear?

 

[AtlasFainted]

This image maybe?

View attachment 37930

I can see how it could look like the synapse somehow is inside the cell on that one. Maybe this one would be better:

View attachment 37931

Yes that was the one! The 2nd image you provided is much more clear to me.

While I looked at that 1st one too hastily, the 2nd image leaves little room for misinterpetation.

Definitely will help for when I'm visualizing this stuff in the future! Thanks for going out of your way.

 

[AtlasFainted]

Do you hear your own voice better out of your left? That's been the worst part for me. It's like my left ear just steals letters away from the right, really screwed up my imaging of words

I have a pretty deep voice, but it is definitely slightly louder/clearer in my left ear.

It is weird! Honestly I've become used to the weirdness all around and for the most part and can now be productive / focus on other things again...

However that doesn't mean I don't want this shit fixed!

 

[d'Wooluf]

In their 10-K, they indicate their most prevalent competitor to FX-322 in the market today is primarily hearing aids. So, it stands to reason the price per "injection" will be comparable for it to be marketable. So, I would not be surprised if initially, FX-322 is as expensive as a set of high-end hearing aids.

I would guess a range of $3000 - $6000 for a set of injections (1 per ear).

That would make sense IF FX-322 worked well enough to make hearing aids unnecessary. The price of hearing aids will probably fall in coming years for a variety of reasons. Also, Costco currently sell premium hearing aids for a lot less than that.

 

[d'Wooluf]

Frequency have repeatedly mentioned that they are targeting a large market - isn't there like 500m people worldwide affected by hearing loss?

It's a nice number but 450m of us are struggling just to feed ourselves. I don't think the laws of supply and demand really apply here. It's not something you'll ever be able to walk into a shop and just buy. Even if they lowered the price so a rickshaw driver in Agra could afford it, he'll never be able to afford the ENT's fees.

 

[Jorge1984]

If they don't, there is something called Carecredit. It's like a credit card for certain health services. It has a high interest rate, but it would be worth it imo.

Totally jumping the gun now but in case people are worried about the cost, there will be options like that I imagine.

FGG I realized you're very educated, coming from a 17 year old like me, I respect you replying and giving us information.

 

[Jorge1984]

Frequency have repeatedly mentioned that they are targeting a large market - isn't there like 500m people worldwide affected by hearing loss? So I can definitely see it being *relatively* affordable - I imagine perhaps a few $k per ear? Like $2500 per ear?

I agree with what you're saying here. If they were to raise the prices too high then they are more likely to lose money and people would gravitate to hearing aids. My opinion.

 

[ThomasC]

Is Frequency Therapeutics impacted by the COVID-19?

In France, almost every company is temporarily closed. I am an engineer, I work for a big research center in electronic and computer science, the research center has been closed for a month now.

I hope Frequency Therapeutics are not impacted like we are.

 

[FGG]

I agree with what you're saying here. If they were to raise the prices too high then they are more likely to lose money and people would gravitate to hearing aids. My opinion.

They aren't necessarily competing with hearing aids. In fact, they have made the distinction that their product is distinct from hearing aids because hearing aids only help with volume and not clarity.

 

[AtlasFainted]

Is Frequency Therapeutics impacted by the COVID-19?

In France, almost every company is temporarily closed. I am an engineer, I work for a big research center in electronic and computer science, the research center has been closed for a month now.

I hope Frequency Therapeutics are not impacted like we are.

@FGG posted a link from Yahoo Business not that long ago.

In it Frequency Therapeutics said that they have stopped enrollment for clinical trials due to COVID-19, but that they think they can still hit their key requirements for the Phase 2 study with the participants that are already enrolled.

So it seems like they are still moving ahead, though this may change as the epidemic continues to have a growing impact.

 

[d'Wooluf]

hearing aids only help with volume and not clarity.

Partly true, but that's also Frequency Therapeutics dissing the 'opposition' (which they've been known to do in other contexts). Hearing aid users can show significant improvements in word recognition scores, which seems to be Frequency Therapeutics definition of clarity. Hey, I'd love to ditch my aids, but if Frequency Therapeutics price their treatment out of my reach I'll make do.

 

[PhoenixAcademy]

So, from my reading of the history of this company, they have something big, found a place to stick it, but the hole isn't really big enough.

Reminds me of my sex life.

 

[Tweedleman]

Partly true, but that's also Frequency Therapeutics dissing the 'opposition' (which they've been known to do in other contexts). Hearing aid users can show significant improvements in word recognition scores, which seems to be Frequency Therapeutics definition of clarity. Hey, I'd love to ditch my aids, but if Frequency Therapeutics price their treatment out of my reach I'll make do.

Hough has said that they plan on the their pill treatment being less than the cost of a single hearing aid. So I think it's safe to expect FX-322 to be in the same general ballpark.

I think Frequency's "dissing" signals confidence in their product and regenerative medicine as a whole, so this swagger is great to see (hurt feelings aside).

We also have to keep in mind FX-322 will be serving a far greater range of people than hearing aids. All of the people with "normal audiograms" and mild dips in hearing loss that get sent away from their audiologists are an enormously untapped market. And I question how underrported this segment of people might actually be in the stats of people suffering from hearing loss.

 

[Street Novelist]

Wouldn't insurance cover part of the cost?

 

[aot]

Wouldn't insurance cover part of the cost?

Probably not at first.

 

[Jaysterk]

I agree with this and think it is great, but also think it is important to mention that a small percentage of tinnitus cases might not have damage in the auditory pathway per se (unless you are including the brain itself as part of the auditory pathway).

Tinnitus as a side effect of concussions/brain damage comes to mind.

...adding on to this: TMJ and physical injuries/etc.

Personally, I know for a fact I have some damage in my ear but I have some very suspect symptoms that seem to originate from the jaw/temple area.

When I massage my temples (which are usually sore due to jaw clenching?), my tinnitus goes away for up to 10 seconds at a time (complete silence). Same when I stretch my jaw open wide.

 

[aot]

Something I've been thinking about:

Let's say that FX-322 works as intended (fingers crossed.) And, as a positive side effect, a patient's tinnitus is either reduced or cured.

If that same patient harms/loses their hair cells again, via noise or otoxicity or whatever, would the tinnitus return? Any idea on how many treatments one could have with FX-322? (Sorry if this have been previously discussed.)

 

[Lucifer]

Something I've been thinking about:

Let's say that FX-322 works as intended (fingers crossed.) And, as a positive side effect, a patient's tinnitus is either reduced or cured.

If that same patient harms/loses their hair cells again, via noise or otoxicity or whatever, would the tinnitus return? Any idea on how many treatments one could have with FX-322? (Sorry if this have been previously discussed.)

I feel like even it does work our ears will still be in a weakened state where it will be easy for us to injure our ears more easily compared to people who don't have tinnitus or hyperacusis.

 

[d'Wooluf]

Let's say that FX-322 works as intended (fingers crossed.) And, as a positive side effect, a patient's tinnitus is either reduced or cured.

If that same patient harms/loses their hair cells again, via noise or otoxicity or whatever, would the tinnitus return?

Three nested "if"s there. Maybe best not to stress about stuff that far down the road? Anyway, some participants in the current trial will be getting four consecutive injections of FX-322. Drawing a line from that, I'd guess that further treatment if required wouldn't be a problem. I guess we'll know more once they release the results of the trial.

 

[Danad]

Below is a link to a study whereby 82.6% of patients had improvement or elimination of tinnitus after tympanoplasty.
Just another example of hearing restoration's effects on tinnitus and why FX-322 is so promising.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=s0034-72992007000300014&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

 

[Jorge1984]

Below is a link to a study whereby 82.6% of patients had improvement or elimination of tinnitus after tympanoplasty.
Just another example of hearing restoration's effects on tinnitus and why FX-322 is so promising.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=s0034-72992007000300014&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

Honestly this is just giving me more hope for regeneration drugs like FX-322. I seriously can't wait to get my life back.

 

[FGG]

Below is a link to a study whereby 82.6% of patients had improvement or elimination of tinnitus after tympanoplasty.
Just another example of hearing restoration's effects on tinnitus and why FX-322 is so promising.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=s0034-72992007000300014&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

Great example.

So many people think of tinnitus as a form of brain damage (and worry so needlessly about it being "stuck in the brain" as if the brain has a preference, which it doesn't) instead of what it actually is, maladaptive plasticity that should reverse when the underlying problem is addressed.

 

[FGG]

I feel like even it does work our ears will still be in a weakened state where it will be easy for us to injure our ears more easily compared to people who don't have tinnitus or hyperacusis.

Biologically, what would cause this "weakened state"?

 

[Tweedleman]

Something I've been thinking about:

Let's say that FX-322 works as intended (fingers crossed.) And, as a positive side effect, a patient's tinnitus is either reduced or cured.

If that same patient harms/loses their hair cells again, via noise or otoxicity or whatever, would the tinnitus return? Any idea on how many treatments one could have with FX-322? (Sorry if this have been previously discussed.)

Well the drug isn't going to make your ears bulletproof or change the way your brain/dcn maladapts to the loss of auditory stimuli, so yes the tinnitus could come back upon reinjury.

FX-322 doesn't deplete support cells so I don't see why you couldn't have more doses.

 

[AtlasFainted]

Well the drug isn't going to make your ears bulletproof or change the way your brain/dcn maladapts to the loss of auditory stimuli, so yes the tinnitus could come back upon reinjury.

FX-322 doesn't deplete support cells so I don't see why you couldn't have more doses.

I think you'd have to have some very misfortunate accident to hurt your ears to the point of tinnitus returning.

I mean lots of us post here daily and are open to paying thousands of dollars to make it go away.

It's hard for me to believe we'll be careless enough to get it again... I mean, I have earplugs on my fucking keychain *just in case* I end up going somewhere that's unexpectedly loud.

I haven't even thought about reinjury because of how careful I know I am/will be. Even if it does somehow happen, I would pay thousands of dollars (again) to get retreated.

 

[aot]

I think you'd have to have some very misfortunate accident to hurt your ears to the point of tinnitus returning.

I mean lots of us post here daily and are open to paying thousands of dollars to make it go away.

It's hard for me to believe we'll be careless enough to get it again... I mean, I have earplugs on my fucking keychain *just in case* I end up going somewhere that's unexpectedly loud.

I haven't even thought about reinjury because of how careful I know I am/will be. Even if it does somehow happen, I would pay thousands of dollars (again) to get retreated.

This. I regret every second of everyday the near constant use of earbuds and the loud event that made my tinnitus worsen.

if given another chance, I'd maybe see a movie wearing ear plugs at most. Aside from that, no more loud events, no amusement parks, no earbuds. Ototoxic meds would depend on the circumstances.

 

[AtlasFainted]

This. I regret every second of everyday the near constant use of earbuds and the loud event that made my tinnitus worsen.

if given another chance, I'd maybe see a movie wearing ear plugs at most. Aside from that, no more loud events, no amusement parks, no earbuds. Ototoxic meds would depend on the circumstances.

Yeah, I try to stay away from ototoxic medications as much as possible (even the ones I was prescribed for anxiety/depression).

I am now super careful anytime I have to use headphones. I always turn the volume all the way down before hitting 'play' or joining a video conference, then I work it up slowly from there.

Movie theater level loudness is as loud as I will go without hearing protection. I also listen to music somewhat loudly in my car and around the house, but never blaringly so.

I'm pretty sure my hearing damage is mainly from gunfire and indoor clubs/concerts, both of which tend to be wayyy louder than the movies or the music I listen to... those are the types of areas I am personally concerned about. That and those mariachi bands that ambush Mexican restaurants. They just love pointing their trumpets at your face.

 

[Daniel Lion]

I am so grateful that the Frequency Therapeutics people are moving ahead, regardless of not filling their trial numbers. They want to keep moving forward despite the coronavirus.

 

[GlennS]

OMG, mariachi trumpets are terrible.