Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[FGG]

Sorry I know you know much about this so I really would like your opinion on this, but from what I understand to be really sure that you only have flat epithelia left you need profound losses in all or a lot of frequencies on your audiogram?

Per the researcher I corresponded with (and I have since spent a lot of time reading papers on this..."flat epithelia cochlea" on PubMed, Google Scholar and PubMed turns up a lot if you want a place to start), once you have lost all of your IHCs, and OHCs in a particular area of your cochlea, the support cells die and are replaced with flat epithelia. This seems to only happen with *total* losses and your audiogram will reflect that as a greater than 90 dB loss (from anything but the sub 250 Hz tones, where a more moderate audiogram change may reflect full loss).

If hearing loss isn't your main problem and tinnitus is, it only matters where your tinnitus is. I.e. if you have profound loss at 16000 Hz but then you have a moderate notch at 8000 Hz but your tinnitus is at 8000 Hz, then that's what is relevant for you.

 

[FGG]

Curious... How long do you estimate this reasonable time frame to be and why? I consider you to have breadth and depth of regeneration research knowledge. Thank you!

You are much too valuable to us and this world to depart. You are gifted... and I hope a reason for you to wait it out with us manifests.

As soon as Frequency opens this up to Expanded Access/Compassionate Use. Only they know the answer to that though. Synaptopathy drugs might be a year or two behind.

 

[FGG]

When these progenitor cells are destined to become hair cells with FX-322 then this seems to be a much safer approach than the stem cell treatment as there you always run into the risk of cancer development.

Probably a drug can be toxic to any parts of the body. So i.e. the auditory nerve. But FX-322 regenerates hair cells, not the auditory nerve.

Some toxins can (but don't always) affect the brain stem (aminoglycosides, macrolides) KV3.1 ion channels.

Some drugs are anti mitotic and stay in the cochlea indefinitely (platinum based chemo). This is concerning because *all* of these treatments need cells to divide and this drug may prevent that.

I think everyone else will be helped at the same rate as long as they don't have profound losses.

I'm not aware of anything but certain immune conditions that directly effect the auditory nerve but i haven't reviewed every toxin.

 

[FGG]

Here is my extended audiogram. I 'm afraid that FX-322 may not fully work. I guess that the cochlear zone around 11kHz is dead.

View attachment 38937

You don't have any profound losses, which is good.

Otonomy has something in pre-clinical for severe losses but I think FX-322 could still give you some benefit (even if not the full benefit) because you still have some support cells until you research profound.

 

[HootOwl]

Thanks for this. I hold your opinion in very high esteem and this gave me comfort. I'll schedule an extended audiogram.

I just thought I might add that I cannot hear anything on my phone that's over 15 kHz no matter how high I crank it - and I've cranked it up to the top.

But I've had several extended audiograms done and the only substantial notch I have is 30-40 dB in both ears at 16 kHz. Even at 18 kHz my notch is only 10-15 dB, and strangely enough I have no hearing loss at all at 20 kHz.

If you go by my phone test you would think my ultra high frequencies were entirely wiped out, but that's not the case.

Hope that eases your mind.

 

[all to gain]

I just thought I might add that I cannot hear anything on my phone that's over 15 kHz no matter how high I crank it - and I've cranked it up to the top.

But I've had several extended audiograms done and the only substantial notch I have is 30-40 dB in both ears at 16 kHz. Even at 18 kHz my notch is only 10-15 dB, and strangely enough I have no hearing loss at all at 20 kHz.

If you go by my phone test you would think my entire ultra high frequencies were entirely wiped out, but that's not the case.

Hope that eases your mind.

Why is that? I mean, why can't you hear anything on your phone, but you have hearing according to the audiogram?

 

[dan]

I have no hearing loss at all at 20 kHz.

Jesus are you a newborn?

 

[dan]

I think everyone else will be helped at the same rate as long as they don't have profound losses.

What does "profound" hearing loss on the audiogram look like? -90dB loss?

 

[FGG]

What does "profound" hearing loss on the audiogram look like? -90dB loss?

 

[dan]

View attachment 38938

Aaah I see now thanks.

So unless it's over 90 dB, it's still not profound, therefore some support cells exist and FX-322 is going to work?

Thing is it's not a great idea to pump 90 dB of HF audiometric test tones in your ear, as outer hair cells (HF?) are more easily damaged (?). Many people here got tinnitus from OAE tests etc...
But the assumption is that NIHL does not cause total annihilation of HF cells (?)

Thoughts.

 

[HootOwl]

Why is that? I mean, why can't you hear anything on your phone, but you have hearing according to the audiogram?

Probably calibration. After about 18 kHz you don't hear the tones so much anymore. During the audiometry test what you hear at about 18 kHz and above is a bzzzst sound, similar to static (unless my ears are just fucked up but my audiologist said this was normal).

Kind of like with really low bass. I can't hear sub 70 Hz on my phone but with bass headphones I most likely could.

Not sure about the 16 kHz - it's possible that my phone's speakers just suck. The thing is like 5 years old at this point and I've dropped it in the toilet before. But that one is more perplexing.

 

[all to gain]

Probably calibration. After about 18 kHz you don't hear the tones so much anymore. During the audiometry test what you hear at about 18 kHz and above is a bzzzst sound, similar to static (unless my ears are just fucked up but my audiologist said this was normal).

Kind of like with really low bass. I can't hear sub 70 Hz on my phone but with bass headphones I most likely could.

Not sure about the 16 kHz - it's possible that my phone's speakers just suck. The thing is like 5 years old at this point and I've dropped it in the toilet before. But that one is more perplexing.

I was hoping you were going to say that it would be the same for everyone, i.e. regardless of frequencies lost, and that everyone would perform better on an audiogram compared to what can or can't be heard on a phone or through computer speakers.

 

[FGG]

Aaah I see now thanks.

So unless it's over 90 dB, it's still not profound, therefore some support cells exist and FX-322 is going to work?

Thing is it's not a great idea to pump 90 dB of HF audiometric test tones in your ear, as outer hair cells (HF?) are more easily damaged (?). Many people here got tinnitus from OAE tests etc...
But the assumption is that NIHL does not cause total annihilation of HF cells (?)

Thoughts.

It would probably take something like a bomb going off near your head for noise to lead to profound hearing loss is my guess.

 

[FGG]

Probably calibration. After about 18 kHz you don't hear the tones so much anymore. During the audiometry test what you hear at about 18 kHz and above is a bzzzst sound, similar to static (unless my ears are just fucked up but my audiologist said this was normal).

Kind of like with really low bass. I can't hear sub 70 Hz on my phone but with bass headphones I most likely could.

Not sure about the 16 kHz - it's possible that my phone's speakers just suck. The thing is like 5 years old at this point and I've dropped it in the toilet before. But that one is more perplexing.

This is why they use calibrated headphones in audiograms.

When I figured I had profound bass loss was because it occurred to me I couldn't hear thunder anymore except as a vague vibration. It had no sound. I used bass head phones and tested it myself and I can't hear anything below 100Hz as anything other than an oscillation vibration sound devoid of any tone. Even if I turn it up to 110dB I still can't hear anything. Not that I recommend anyone try that but I had to know...

 

[AtlasFainted]

I just thought I might add that I cannot hear anything on my phone that's over 15 kHz no matter how high I crank it - and I've cranked it up to the top.

But I've had several extended audiograms done and the only substantial notch I have is 30-40 dB in both ears at 16 kHz. Even at 18 kHz my notch is only 10-15 dB, and strangely enough I have no hearing loss at all at 20 kHz.

If you go by my phone test you would think my ultra high frequencies were entirely wiped out, but that's not the case.

Hope that eases your mind.

Thanks. I've tried tones on my laptop with a good pair of headphones too and get about the same results. But who knows, I'm probably worrying ahead of time...

 

[FGG]

Thanks. I've tried tones on my laptop with a good pair of headphones too and get about the same results. But who knows, I'm probably worrying ahead of time...

Headphones are calibrated for certain sounds. That's why you can't bring your own to the audiologist.

 

[HootOwl]

Something I forgot to share with everyone is that I got an email back yesterday from Otomagnetics and they hope to have their delivery platform commercialized in 3 years.

 

[HootOwl]

and that everyone would perform better on an audiogram compared to what can or can't be heard on a phone or through computer speakers

I do think that's very much the case, hence the calibration comment. I don't think most speakers - phone, computer, etc. - are calibrated for the ultra high and ultra low frequencies. In fact I remember now that I had to ear special headphones for all of the audiometry above 13kHz. The normal ones didn't cut it.

 

[AtlasFainted]

It would probably take something like a bomb going off near your head for noise to lead to profound hearing loss is my guess.

I pray that you're right! I think the number 1 thing that caused my hearing loss/tinnitus is gunshots. Lots of them unprotected as a child, and a few more went unprotected as an adult.

About a month before my tinnitus started, I had a negligent discharge of a firearm in a small room with no hearing protection (I still beat myself up over this sometimes). Definitely the loudest thing I've ever heard, but not quite like an explosion going off next to your head I suppose.

Lots of emotions are wrapped up in this, which is why I feel like I have no choice but to bet the house on FX-322. I'm sick of this hearing stuff picking away at my life...

 

[Lucifer]

I pray that you're right! I think the number 1 thing that caused my hearing loss/tinnitus is gunshots. Lots of them unprotected as a child, and a few more went unprotected as an adult.

About a month before my tinnitus started, I had a negligent discharge of a firearm in a small room with no hearing protection (I still beat myself up over this sometimes). Definitely the loudest thing I've ever heard, but not quite like an explosion going off next to your head I suppose.

Lots of emotions are wrapped up in this, which is why I feel like I have no choice but to bet the house on FX-322. I'm sick of this hearing stuff picking away at my life...

I agree with you, FX-322 is my only hope at the moment and it is the drug most likely to come out first.

 

[DoNotGoGentle]

Something I forgot to share with everyone is that I got an email back yesterday from Otomagnetics and they hope to have their delivery platform commercialized in 3 years.

Wow! Three years time stage for FX-322 and this dang!!! Lot to bet on! I hope it all goes well!!! Just have to remember first Gen hearing repair won't be perfect but just might be enough to help some of us get silence back.

 

[Lucifer]

Wow! Three years time stage for FX-322 and this dang!!! Lot to bet on! I hope it all goes well!!! Just have to remember first Gen hearing repair won't be perfect but just might be enough to help some of us get silence back.

I don't mind if the current delivery method of FX-322 comes out sooner than the new delivery method. I just hope many of us can get some sort of benefit with the current delivery method of FX-322 so we can resume our lives.

I'm just tired of the waiting game :'(.

 

[Edg71908]

5 months ago I had a virus that attacked my hearing. Started as a cold and moved into my year. Doctor said I had SSHL... He said I have a profound hearing loss. I really can't hear ANYTHING in my right ear.

Do you think my support cells also died when my hair cells were fried?

I literally went from hearing fine one minute to loud tinnitus and vertigo and no hearing the next minute. It was unreal!

Any hope FX-322 will help? Thanks guys!!

 

[Croaker]

5 months ago I had a virus that attacked my hearing. Started as a cold and moved into my year. Doctor said I had SSHL... He said I have a profound hearing loss. I really can't hear ANYTHING in my right ear.

Do you think my support cells also died when my hair cells were fried?

I literally went from hearing fine one minute to loud tinnitus and vertigo and no hearing the next minute. It was unreal!

Any hope FX-322 will help? Thanks guys!!

It all depends on what exactly the virus did to your cochlea. If it restricted blood flow then cell death was probably indiscriminate. Or it could have directly attacked a particular cell type. I'm definitely not a doctor but I think this drug is worth a shot for anyone, although I really doubt it will help me.

It's dangerous to pin all of our hopes on any one treatment. Look at Lenire. Yes, it was always sketchy compared to regenerative drugs, but it's still an effective warning. There are always other treatments in the pipeline.

 

[Joly]

Hello, sorry to disturb you but I am desperate. I suffer from TTTS. I was told on Tinnitus Talk that FX-322 will cure problems of TTTS (pulsatile tinnitus, cracking, fullness). Could someone explain to me how the drug would help knowing that it acts on the inner ear?

 

[GlennS]

I do think that's very much the case, hence the calibration comment. I don't think most speakers - phone, computer, etc. - are calibrated for the ultra high and ultra low frequencies. In fact I remember now that I had to ear special headphones for all of the audiometry above 13kHz. The normal ones didn't cut it.

Frequency response of regular consumer electronics tends to follow a bell curve with weak ultra lows and highs.

 

[Nobody19]

Hello, sorry to disturb you but I am desperate. I suffer from TTTS. I was told on Tinnitus Talk that FX-322 will cure problems of TTTS (pulsatile tinnitus, cracking, fullness). Could someone explain to me how the drug would help knowing that it acts on the inner ear?

Who told you that? They will be testing the effect of this drug on tinnitus, but not TTTS.

 

[Joly]

@Nobody19

In the previous pages, I asked if FX-322 would help with TTTS, the answer was yes. I asked how it could be, I didn't get an answer.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/525190/

I don't think it will be too little. You have to remember the current method they are using does not go below 6 kHz. Once they improve the delivery method it should help with all frequencies.

Maybe. The reason why I say maybe is because the Audion anecdote; someone was able to go rejoin his band again due to tinnitus and hyperacusis improving.

I think the reason why some of us get hyperacusis is due to the outer hair cells getting damaged. Once it restores the outer hair cells we should be able to get rid of the pain but also TTTS.

 

[sssing]

Hello, sorry to disturb you but I am desperate. I suffer from TTTS. I was told on Tinnitus Talk that FX-322 will cure problems of TTTS (pulsatile tinnitus, cracking, fullness). Could someone explain to me how the drug would help knowing that it acts on the inner ear?

Hi @Joly, Sorry but I'm not familiar with TTTS... How FX-322 works is it's supposed to regrow hair cells that are found in the inner ear. These hair cells helps in hearing and are often the reason for hearing loss. The hearing loss that comes with the loss of hair cells is called sensorineural hearing loss.

 

[Nobody19]

@Nobody19

In the previous pages, I asked if FX-322 would help with TTTS, the answer was yes. I asked how it could be, I didn't get an answer.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/525190/

We really don't know. FX-322 is mainly tested for hearing loss, and tinnitus as a secondary outcome. No mention of TTTS or hyperacusis unfortunately.

Once it's available we might get anecdotal evidence for its effect on TTTS, maybe Frequency will start a new trial to test its effect on hyperacusis if it helps with tinnitus.