Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[hans01]

Hello fellas, I'm spying here for a while and I finally made an account today.

I've got one question about Frequency Therapeutics : let's assuming their drugs work pretty well. If I have bad hearing loss above 15 000 Hz and severe to profound hearing loss above 16 000 Hz to 20 000 Hz can this treatment have effect on this range of frequencies (15 000Hz - 20 000 Hz) ?

Hearing loss above 15 000 Hz is pretty normal if you're above 30 years old .... I wish I still could hear above 10 000 Hz, I have 50% loss above 6-8Khz, I'm a musician too but stopped playing in bands now because of this. That said, besides the T the high frequency loss doesn't really bother me, tinnitus does, even if since a few days I have the impression things are better again, not sure if it's the sleep or supplements I'm taking that are starting to work.

 

[Graig]

I wonder how many times this treatment could be applied? I've got severe hearing loss (60-7o dB) for 4khz and above. So I have a small amount of hair cells for these frequencies but obviously I do have some. I have normal hearing below 3khz. Could the treatment be applied multiple times to regenerate hair cells and supporting cells for the higher frequencies to bring them to a normal level? How could this affect the lower frequency range where my hearing is normal? Seems like it would be extremely difficult to balance a ski slope hearing loss but is there a way? Im sure nobody knows these answers for sure but I'm curious of opinions.

 

[acufenero]

I wonder how many times this treatment could be applied? I've got severe hearing loss (60-7o dB) for 4khz and above. So I have a small amount of hair cells for these frequencies but obviously I do have some. I have normal hearing below 3khz. Could the treatment be applied multiple times to regenerate hair cells and supporting cells for the higher frequencies to bring them to a normal level? How could this affect the lower frequency range where my hearing is normal? Seems like it would be extremely difficult to balance a ski slope hearing loss but is there a way? Im sure nobody knows these answers for sure but I'm curious of opinions.

What we know so far is that the drug induce the supporting cells to split into more supporting cells and actual hair cells. Does this mean that the treatment can be applied multiple times? We don't know yet.

 

[Joeymeatballs]

So, is there a way for Frequency or other companies to know how many hair cells one has/should have? Tinnitus is caused by many things, so is there a way to make sure people aren't going to sign up for this treatment thinking ear damage is the cause when realistically it could be something else?

 

[Harvest King]

Where to begin . . . . . .
The Mayo Clinic states "Head noise (tinnitus) can be caused by broken or damaged hairs on auditory cells . . . ."
Note in the above statement "can be caused", which doesn't give us any answers.
Of course, there is a lot more to it.
One would argue that the (temporary) ringing sound you hear after a load noise/concert or similar experience is NOT technically tinnitus . . . . . . or is it?
Without getting into an intense anatomical discussion on the inner workings of the auditory system, let us say the normal function of the cilia (tiny hairs) is absolutely vital, hence anything that hinders this function results in tinnitus . . . . broken or damaged hairs, altered viscosity of cochlear fluid and flattened but not damaged cilia.

 

[Harvest King]

Ok . . . . now . . . . this is were neurobiology comes in.

 

[Harvest King]

Joeymeatballs you mentioned "the cause". Many conditions 'cause' tinnitus i.e. result in tinnitus. Sometimes when the various conditions are cured or rectified the tinnitus disappears and sometimes it continues, getting progressively worse. The latter is when tinnitus becomes an entity unto itself.

 

[Flamingo1]

With acoustic trauma, which is the first to break-- synapses or hair cells?

 

[Paulmanlike]

With acoustic trauma, which is the first to break-- synapses or hair cells?

Synapses

 

[hans01]

Synapses

Oh really ? So who works on repairing these synapses today ? Really hope this will some day be possible, not just hair cells.

 

[Rubenslash]

Oh really ? So who works on repairing these synapses today ? Really hope this will some day be possible, not just hair cells.

Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

+ Affichem & Hough Ear.

Please also consult other threads related to this topic, a lot of questions asked here have already been answered before.

 

[hans01]

Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

+ Affichem & Hough Ear.

Please also consult other threads related to this topic, a lot of questions asked here have already been answered before.

Thanks, sorry for double posting

 

[leledany]

With acoustic trauma, which is the first to break-- synapses or hair cells?

Good question, in my opinion the really furst to die/broke are the stereociglia

 

[Flamingo1]

Synapses

@Paulmanlike, do you have a reference for this?

 

[Paulmanlike]

@Aaron123 will confirm it, I've also read that on a lot of information I've read.

 

[Flamingo1]

@Aaron123 will confirm it, I've also read that on a lot of information I've read.

I'm sorry but what you're saying really doesn't make any sense. Why would FX be talking about NIHL restoration by regrowing hair cells only?

 

[Aaron123]

With acoustic trauma, which is the first to break-- synapses or hair cells?

In general the synapses will die at lower levels of noise than the hair cells. This is the idea behind so called hidden hearing loss. Kujawa and Liberman (2009) (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812055/) showed that it is possible to cause the 'death' of synapses while inducing only a temporary threshold shift. Thus, there was little or no hair cell death but extensive synaptic death. It turns out that it takes an extreme degree of synaptic damage for there to be a permanent threshold shift.

I'm sorry but what you're saying really doesn't make any sense. Why would FX be talking about NIHL restoration by regrowing hair cells only?

Because hair cell death is associated with elevated thresholds in hearing tests. Restoring hair cells (which presumably will also generate new synapses) *should* restore hearing as measured by audiometric testing.

 

[GregCA]

Because hair cell death is associated with elevated thresholds in hearing tests. Restoring hair cells (which presumably will also generate new synapses) *should* restore hearing as measured by audiometric testing.

Is it the case that we attribute the elevated thresholds to hair cell damage and word recognition/perception in noise degradation to synaptic damage?

In other words, do we think that people with hearing loss on an audiogram but good discrimination of words (even in presence of noise) are mainly affected by hair cell damage rather than synaptic damage? (and vice versa?)

 

[Aaron123]

Is it the case that we attribute the elevated thresholds to hair cell damage and word recognition/perception in noise degradation to synaptic damage?

In other words, do we think that people with hearing loss on an audiogram but good discrimination of words (even in presence of noise) are mainly affected by hair cell damage rather than synaptic damage? (and vice versa?)

Based on my understanding, I would say that is right.

 

[Contrast]

So hair cell regeneration might also repair the synapses or atleast is that what frequency-tx is claiming?

 

[Aaron123]

So hair cell regeneration might also repair the synapses or atleast is that what frequency-tx is claiming?

No.

 

[Contrast]

Because hair cell death is associated with elevated thresholds in hearing tests. Restoring hair cells (which presumably will also generate new synapses) *should* restore hearing as measured by audiometric testing.

So new synapses could be created but no one knows for sure?

 

[Aaron123]

So new synapses could be created but no one knows for sure?

I really don't know what you are asking. Frequency is attempting to restart a developmental process that will create new hair cells. The hope/belief is that new synapses is that as part of this developmental process, synapses will form for these new hair cells. (Frequency likely knows how successful this is, but we don't at the moment.).

What Frequency is doing will not regenerate dead synapses in cases where the associated hair cells still exist.

 

[hans01]

What Frequency is doing will not regenerate dead synapses in cases where the associated hair cells still exist.

But if it may create new ones, that's also good, same for the hair cells ? We'll see once they have more info on this in the future.

 

[Jomo]

all i know is that even if nothing pans out for frequency (which sounds unlikely) as long as i have something like this i will be more than happy. Cant wait !

 

[Reinier]

In other words, do we think that people with hearing loss on an audiogram but good discrimination of words (even in presence of noise) are mainly affected by hair cell damage rather than synaptic damage? (and vice versa?)

I wonder if this condition exists. I think hearing loss that does show on your audiogram is just the next step from synaptic damage. So people with a "dip" in their audiogram will always have diminished discrimination of words in noisy rooms.
So exactly what Aaron 123 says. Synapses will die at lower noise levels.

 

[GregCA]

I wonder if this condition exists. I think hearing loss that does show on your audiogram is just the next step from synaptic damage. So people with a "dip" in their audiogram will always have diminished discrimination of words in noisy rooms.
So exactly what Aaron 123 says. Synapses will die at lower noise levels.

It seems you're just thinking about acoustic trauma causes. In otosclerosis for example, hair cell death is believed to be caused by enzymes released by the bone remodeling process. In this case there doesn't seem to be any reason to have synaptic damage.
I have 55 dB losses in the high frequencies, but perfect word discrimination (even tests in noise), which could perhaps indicate that my hair cells are busted, but my synaptic connections are not.

 

[jcloth]

It seems you're just thinking about acoustic trauma causes. In otosclerosis for example, hair cell death is believed to be caused by enzymes released by the bone remodeling process. In this case there doesn't seem to be any reason to have synaptic damage.
I have 55 dB losses in the high frequencies, but perfect word discrimination (even tests in noise), which could perhaps indicate that my hair cells are busted, but my synaptic connections are not.

Synapses without hair cells are not possible. They are connecting fibres. If a hair cell goes, its connection to the auditory nerve goes.

 

[GregCA]

Synapses without hair cells are not possible. They are connecting fibres. If a hair cell goes, its connection to the auditory nerve goes.

I think it takes a long time for that to happen.

 

[jcloth]

I think it takes a long time for that to happen.

You're thinking of auditory neurons. Synapses connect hair cells and neurons, they necessarily die when hair cells do.