Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[IvanRus]

Hello!
Here in the light of the recent discussions of regenerative ear prospects (in particular, Frequency Therapeutics), I met such an objection, a quote:

"Even if there is a way to restore the NVC (outer hair cells) or VVC (internal hair cells), the result will still not be, since the nerve portion that interacted with once alive cells on lost frequencies dies with time. , who wore a hearing aid who wore the except for those Hearing aid, thereby giving the opportunity to continue the nerve to work. " the end of the quotation.

Is it true?

 

[Makrohn]

Is it true?

It has been strongly suggested that in time, the connection will die yes, but they do not know how long it takes and it might be individual. In my personal opinion, wearing a hearing aid could probably keep these cells active and longer living that not wearing a hearing aid.

Only time will tell!

 

[sharonr]

It has been strongly suggested that in time, the connection will die yes, but they do not know how long it takes and it might be individual. In my personal opinion, wearing a hearing aid could probably keep these cells active and longer living that not wearing a hearing aid.

Only time will tell!

Hi, does anyone else know if future treatments will only work if you have been wearing a hearing aid.
Thank you
Sharon.

 

[Contrast]

My hearing is not bad enough to require a hearing aid, only in noisy environments do I notice moderate distortion.

 

[undecided]

@sharonr I always wondered why people ask this sort of questions?
How is ANYONE supposed to know that unless they've been testing the procedure for like 10-15 years or have a time machine and been to the the future.

If a nerve is not intracting with dead or inactive hair cells, it is not going to be all excited about external stimuli which actually includes, yes, hearing aids. I mean if those frequencies are gone, what difference does a hearing aid make? Maybe if you turn up it's volume to 500%?
My two cents.

 

[IvanRus]

@undecided ,I do not quite understand your answer @sharonr

If to speak on the merits of the matter, then yes. In general, the statement is true - over time, the areas of the auditory cortex, responsible for processing the corresponding frequencies, which perceived damaged auditory hairs atrophy and cease to function.

Therefore, people with hearing loss who start wearing the hearing aid too late do not understand the speech in it.

Wearing a hearing aid, apparently, prolongs the functionality of these zones of the auditory cortex, since the brain continues to receive and process the lost frequencies.

But there are two questions:
- How quickly this cortical dysfunction occurs over time?
- If the auditory hairs are damaged above 12 kHz, even wearing an auditory applet for today can not help here. Since they simply do not process or amplify such high frequencies for today. This is problem.

 

[Makrohn]

On the other hand, if T is caused by damaged hear cells, then could it be a positive thing that we have T in regards of regenerating hear cells? Meaning, the T is actually keeping these nerves active in some way... just a thought that crossed my mind.

 

[Pero1234]

Indeed... Maybe our body is keeping the nerves /brain in standby - safety mode by sending the beep... a test tone until we find a way to hook up our hearing again

Let's be positive!

 

[Aaron123]

Very interesting talk by Jeff Karp. He talks about his lab's early research on the intestines which ends up explaining the connection to diabetes. He then talks about his/Frequency's work on hearing including some research that has not yet been published on cats and adult mice. The cat research looked at drug concentrations in the inner ear so was presumably part of the preclinical work before the Phase 1 trial. Importantly, they get what they believer are therapeutic levels of the drug throughout the cochlea. He also says they can "restore hearing to a significant degree" in deafened adult mice. The key question of course is what does "significant degree" mean? He says they have submitted a paper "recently" so hopefully we will learn more soon.

Here is the link to the talk: https://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?Live=26885&bhcp=1 He starts speaking around 32 minutes and starts talking about the ear at about 54 minutes. If you are interested in Frequency, you should watch his whole talk.

 

[Jim51042]

deafened adult mice

Are "deafened mice" defined by some standarized metric? Does Frequency define it for their experiment?

 

[Aaron123]

Are "deafened mice" defined by some standarized metric?

Not that I know of.

Does Frequency define it for their experiment?

Of course, but we simply won't know any of the details until a paper is published (or until more details show up someplace else).

 

[grate_biff]

If you are interested in Frequency, you should watch his whole talk.

Ah, How I love those guys at Frequency TX. Couldn´t be a nicer guy holding this presentation either

Really nothing new, but very encouraging to listen to Mr. Karp explaining their work, or rather how things work and what they hope to achieve.

If I was to be in that audience I would not have him let go so quickly though.
Would have bombarded him with questions, which he may probably not have been able to answer anyway

What an extremely interesting and groundbreaking phase II this could prove to be.
I just have so much confidence in their approach both for hearingloss, tinnitus and hyperacousis sufferers. According to one of his charts, those progenitor cells seems ready to bloom. They just need that extra push

Just a question for you @Aaron123.
When they say phase II trial is to start early fall, do you think that is when they actually start injections, with everything in place, or is it the start of recruitment? Cause I would believe that would take some time in itself.

FTX
I put my trust in you!
In you, in you in you!

 

[jeff W]

@undecided ,I do not quite understand your answer @sharonr

If to speak on the merits of the matter, then yes. In general, the statement is true - over time, the areas of the auditory cortex, responsible for processing the corresponding frequencies, which perceived damaged auditory hairs atrophy and cease to function.

Therefore, people with hearing loss who start wearing the hearing aid too late do not understand the speech in it.

Wearing a hearing aid, apparently, prolongs the functionality of these zones of the auditory cortex, since the brain continues to receive and process the lost frequencies.

But there are two questions:
- How quickly this cortical dysfunction occurs over time?
- If the auditory hairs are damaged above 12 kHz, even wearing an auditory applet for today can not help here. Since they simply do not process or amplify such high frequencies for today. This is problem.

Are you not being presumptive that the central changes after lost input are non-reversible? Restoring hearing function may be the goal of many but if the central nervous system is able to adapt normally to the restored signal it will be the greatest kick up the arse for cog neuroscience labs that have attached themselves to this field like an infection. Success will likely be more silence than cheering. Silence is good.

 

[jeff W]

Very interesting talk by Jeff Karp. He talks about his lab's early research on the intestines which ends up explaining the connection to diabetes. He then talks about his/Frequency's work on hearing including some research that has not yet been published on cats and adult mice. The cat research looked at drug concentrations in the inner ear so was presumably part of the preclinical work before the Phase 1 trial. Importantly, they get what they believer are therapeutic levels of the drug throughout the cochlea. He also says they can "restore hearing to a significant degree" in deafened adult mice. The key question of course is what does "significant degree" mean? He says they have submitted a paper "recently" so hopefully we will learn more soon.

Here is the link to the talk: https://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?Live=26885&bhcp=1 He starts speaking around 32 minutes and starts talking about the ear at about 54 minutes. If you are interested in Frequency, you should watch his whole talk.

If you ever hear of Frequency making a move to public offering, I would very much appreciate it if you could bring it to my attention. I know you watch Karp's work very closely.

 

[Berik]

If you ever hear of Frequency making a move to public offering

Can't wait to hear that, in all frequencies

 

[Dubbyaman]

Does anyone know if anyone on the trials have had any hearing improvement?

 

[Liam_Cairns]

Does anyone know if anyone on the trials have had any hearing improvement?

Sadly I doubt they will be able to tell as they were already having cochlear implants installed in the first place.

 

[Contrast]

It makes my head hurt trying to figure out why they got cochlear implants immediately afterward

 

[Andrei90]

It makes my head hurt trying to figure out why they got cochlear implants immediately afterward

Have the memes followed us here brother? Anyways, to give you a proper reply, the treatment has a sort of limitation. The support cells start to disappear if enough damage is done to the hearing cells. If the participants were getting cochlear implants, it means they were virtually deaf with no hope for treatment. Ask the more scientifically inclined members here for more clarification. Of course, this is bad news for me because I can't wait 4-5 years for this thing to come out. Anybody with progressive hearing loss can't wait.

 

[Yusher]

Have the memes followed us here brother? Anyways, to give you a proper reply, the treatment has a sort of limitation. The support cells start to disappear if enough damage is done to the hearing cells. If the participants were getting cochlear implants, it means they were virtually deaf with no hope for treatment. Ask the more scientifically inclined members here for more clarification. Of course, this is bad news for me because I can't wait 4-5 years for this thing to come out. Anybody with progressive hearing loss can't wait.

Have the memes followed us here brother? Anyways, to give you a proper reply, the treatment has a sort of limitation. The support cells start to disappear if enough damage is done to the hearing cells. If the participants were getting cochlear implants, it means they were virtually deaf with no hope for treatment. Ask the more scientifically inclined members here for more clarification. Of course, this is bad news for me because I can't wait 4-5 years for this thing to come out. Anybody with progressive hearing loss can't wait.

How can I know the damage done to hair cells? Does it depend on how many db I lost at each frequency?When support cells start do disappear?

 

[Liam_Cairns]

It makes my head hurt trying to figure out why they got cochlear implants immediately afterward

Watcha mean dude? It was a phase 1 so they were just testing its safety not its efficacy. I don't know much about phase 1 trials but the amount might not have even been near the therapeutic dose. It's all about that safety.

 

[Liam_Cairns]

Have the memes followed us here brother? Anyways, to give you a proper reply, the treatment has a sort of limitation. The support cells start to disappear if enough damage is done to the hearing cells. If the participants were getting cochlear implants, it means they were virtually deaf with no hope for treatment. Ask the more scientifically inclined members here for more clarification. Of course, this is bad news for me because I can't wait 4-5 years for this thing to come out. Anybody with progressive hearing loss can't wait.

Do you have some sort of genetic disorder that causes rapid loss of hearing? Is that what you are saying I'm confused.

 

[Contrast]

Have the memes followed us here brother? Anyways, to give you a proper reply, the treatment has a sort of limitation. The support cells start to disappear if enough damage is done to the hearing cells. If the participants were getting cochlear implants, it means they were virtually deaf with no hope for treatment. Ask the more scientifically inclined members here for more clarification. Of course, this is bad news for me because I can't wait 4-5 years for this thing to come out. Anybody with progressive hearing loss can't wait.

I was aware that if the supporting cells were missing this would not work, but I'm confused what Frequency-tx means when they say they duplicate supporting cells. If someone has profound hearing loss is it reasonable to believe that Frequency can reduce it to severe or even moderate hearing loss? We will just have to wait till stage for 2 questions to be answered.

also welcome to MPP!
@Andrei90

 

[Andrei90]

I was aware that if the supporting cells were missing this would not work, but I'm confused what Frequency-tx means when they say they duplicate supporting cells. If someone has profound hearing loss is it reasonable to believe that Frequency can reduce it to severe or even moderate hearing loss? We will just have to wait till stage for 2 questions to be answered.

also welcome to MPP!
@Andrei90

Yes and no. Their approach allows them to multiply the supporting cells (whatever is available) before they develop into hearing cells. Unfortunately, some members here have pointed out that these support cells can disappear with enough damage. There's a statement from one of the Frequency staff about this process taking place around the 50db threshold. @Aaron123 pointed out this only includes affected frequencies. So if your 7khz drops below 50db, you probably won't be able to salvage anything in that specific frequency. But this leaves all others intact and usable (if under 50db). Going back to your question about profound hearing loss, this means most frequencies are probably outside that zone hence the need for cochlear implant. If the few individuals who got the treatment were fixed, I believe they would be removing the CI by now. There would be some awarness?

My original thinking was similar to yours. It would be amazing to go from 90% loss up to something like 40% loss. And then take the treatment again for prefect hearing since the cells keep multiplying. But there's a catch. And that catch is a big **** you to the people losing hearing now.

 

[Contrast]

Yes and no. Their approach allows them to multiply the supporting cells (whatever is available) before they develop into hearing cells. Unfortunately, some members here have pointed out that these support cells can disappear with enough damage. There's a statement from one of the Frequency staff about this process taking place around the 50db threshold. @Aaron123 pointed out this only includes affected frequencies. So if your 7khz drops below 50db, you probably won't be able to salvage anything in that specific frequency. But this leaves all others intact and usable (if under 50db). Going back to your question about profound hearing loss, this means most frequencies are probably outside that zone hence the need for cochlear implant. If the few individuals who got the treatment were fixed, I believe they would be removing the CI by now. There would be some awarness?

My original thinking was similar to yours. It would be amazing to go from 90% loss up to something like 40% loss. And then take the treatment again for prefect hearing since the cells keep multiplying. But there's a catch. And that catch is a big **** you to the people losing hearing now.

because my hearing loss is only mild or moderate at worse I believe it should be effective on me.

 

[Andrei90]

because my hearing loss is only mild or moderate at worse I believe it should be effective on me.

It should work. But that applies for NOW. You don't know where you'll be when this thing finally comes out.

 

[Andrei90]

Do you have some sort of genetic disorder that causes rapid loss of hearing? Is that what you are saying I'm confused.

No I don't. I just completely wrecked my ears to the point where I keep losing hearing cells. Think of it as a delayed reaction or perhaps my threshold has dropped so much, I keep losing hearing just to normal sounds. There are other members here who have gone through the same experience. It eventually leveled out after some time. Hopefully, I will experience the same before it gets worse.

 

[Liam_Cairns]

No I don't. I just completely wrecked my ears to the point where I keep losing hearing cells. Think of it as a delayed reaction or perhaps my threshold has dropped so much, I keep losing hearing just to normal sounds. There are other members here who have gone through the same experience. It eventually leveled out after some time. Hopefully, I will experience the same before it gets worse.

omg that's horrible, i'm so sorry for hear that. are you talking about the slow death of the supporting cells?

 

[threefirefour]

No I don't. I just completely wrecked my ears to the point where I keep losing hearing cells. Think of it as a delayed reaction or perhaps my threshold has dropped so much, I keep losing hearing just to normal sounds. There are other members here who have gone through the same experience. It eventually leveled out after some time. Hopefully, I will experience the same before it gets worse.

How bad is your hearing loss? Apparently trauma may cause the hearing to get a little worse for two years so maybe it's not too bad. I don't think it's forever degenerate.

 

[Berik]

There's a statement from one of the Frequency staff about this process taking place around the 50db threshold. Aaron123 pointed out this only includes affected frequencies. So if your 7khz drops below 50db, you probably won't be able to salvage anything in that specific frequency. But this leaves all others intact and usable (if under 50db).

Do you have a reference for this statement?