Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[Andrei90]

How bad is your hearing loss? Apparently trauma may cause the hearing to get a little worse for two years so maybe it's not too bad. I don't think it's forever degenerate.

First audiogram showed normal results. My lowest drop was at 4khz (10db). The next two showed a drop to 15db at 4khz and 2khz. Other frequencies have slipped maybe 5db at most. Last was taken a few weeks ago. Doesn't look too bad but I can hear the difference perfectly. I'm worse off than in December. I do have some middle ear problems so I hope it's mechanical and possbly can be fixed so I can return to December levels.

 

[Contrast]

I do not notice or suspect my hearing is getting worse since I had my exposure in late 2017

If anything a slight increase within the first month, anyhow this is getting off topic.

 

[Andrei90]

Do you have a reference for this statement?

Not exactly. The post is somewhere inside this thread. You just have to look for it. Unfortunately, the search function is not that great.

 

[Aaron123]

If you guys want to talk about your specific HL profiles, could you please start a thread in support so that this thread can stay focused on Frequency.

 

[Aaron123]

There's a statement from one of the Frequency staff about this process taking place around the 50db threshold.

The statement is that individuals with 'profound' hearing loss are unlikely to have supporting cells. The threshold for profound hearing loss is 80-95 dB depending on the source. This is *very* different than 50dB. Not sure where you got that from.

The source is "The-Leviathan" on reddit who is apparently associated with Frequency. Here's the cut-and-paste from reddit from earlier in the thread: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...g-loss-regeneration.18889/page-14#post-251390

I really wouldn't worry about any of this at this point. Let's see what happens with Phase II - and with the next paper.

 

[undecided]

@undecided ,I do not quite understand your answer.

What's so hard to understand? The hair cells are dead, deceased, as in not functioning. No external stimuli will bring them back from the dead, they are not in a state of limbo or zombies, just dead. Nothing will prolong the functionality of a dead human organ.

- If the auditory hairs are damaged above 12 kHz, even wearing an auditory applet for today can not help here. Since they simply do not process or amplify such high frequencies for today. This is problem.

There are lots of apps and hearing aids that produce and enhcance sounds at the frequency you spefified (12khz). But they are not very popular (the hearing aids) since they usually target people with more 'traditional' hearing loss (at the 4k range), usually folks of older age. Thus, they are quite more expensive as well.

 

[Ozwel]

Hello, any idea of when phase 2 results are to be expected this year?

 

[Aaron123]

Hello, any idea of when phase 2 results are to be expected this year?

It hasn't started yet so there will be no results this year. There is no information yet on how long the trial will last so we don't know when to expect results.

 

[jay777]

How can you test if your hearing cells are dead or damaged?

 

[Ozwel]

Fine, thanks

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

How can you test if your hearing cells are dead or damaged?

If you have hearing loss, they are dead.

 

[jay777]

@Pleasure_Paulie Has this been proven in human model?

 

[Berik]

@Pleasure_Paulie Has this been proven in human model?

Yes.. though technically there could be conductive hearing loss which in some cases can be fixed operative. Or potential nerve damage leading to hearing loss. Anyways, the hole purpose of FX approach is triggering regeneration of those dead cells.

 

[jay777]

@Berik can they prove a link of cell damage to tinnitus?

 

[RB2014]

What we know so far is that its the supporting cells can divide and become hearing cells. You can have hearing loss and this will still work. If your hearing loss is greater than 50db that it is speculated this will not work. We don't know anything for sure until the phase 2 trials. Right now no one can prove any link to regaining your hearing and getting rid of tinnitus but everything seems to support that theory. This answers the last few questions.

Lets keep this thread on track to frequency and their company.

 

[Berik]

You can have hearing loss and this will still work. If your hearing loss is greater than 50db that it is speculated this will not work.

As indicated earlier by Aaron, it's indicated with profound (i.e. somewhere around 95Db loss) the supporting cells would be gone and FX methods would not work, not with 50. See earlier in the topic, thought the source was a quote by one of the researcher on Reddit.

 

[Pero1234]

When we talk about regenerating hearing cells. We're talking about hair cells, right?

Not regeneration of the nerve cells which signal the impulses to the brain? And in case of damage, make it harder to understand people in loud environments?

I suspect most of the damage to be in that area.

 

[Contrast]

When we talk about regenerating hearing cells. We're talking about hair cells, right?

Not regeneration of the nerve cells which signal the impulses to the brain? And in case of damage, make it harder to understand people in loud environments?

I suspect most of the damage to be in that area.

yes,

They are talking about cochlear hair cells not anything part of the audiotry nerve.
Sometimes they call hair cells sensory cells so don't let it confuse you.

If I understand correctly the process involves the progenitor cells being mutiplied and told to form a new synapse hair cell connection with the audiotory nerve.

 

[Autumnly]

When we talk about regenerating hearing cells. We're talking about hair cells, right?

Yes.

Not regeneration of the nerve cells which signal the impulses to the brain? And in case of damage, make it harder to understand people in loud environments?

If you're talking about hidden hearing loss then no, this is not what Frequency Therapeutics is focused on or what their drug will cure (from my understanding, please call me out if this information is wrong). Companies focused on finding a treatment for hidden hearing loss are for example: Affichem - AF-243, Otonomy - OTO-413, Hough Ear Institute.

 

[Andrei90]

Doesn't that mean the synapses are intact but damaged? If Frequency can't fix this but allows the new hair cells to form new synapses, why not just knock out the damaged ones too lol? Grow them back later if this treatment works.

 

[Berik]

Lets keep this thread on track to frequency and their company.

@RB2014, perhaps, since you're the topic starter, you can maintain a timeline/summary of developments and valuable news on the first post of this topic. Now info is scattered around the 26816 pages with replies and questions are often re-asked.

 

[Apolonia]

Yes.


If you're talking about hidden hearing loss then no, this is not what Frequency Therapeutics is focused on or what their drug will cure (from my understanding, please call me out if this information is wrong). Companies focused on finding a treatment for hidden hearing loss are for example: Affichem - AF-243, Otonomy - OTO-413, Hough Ear Institute.

As far as I understand it... hidden hearing loss is connected to synapses... Their theory is that when they regrow hair cells, synapses will regenerate as well... meaning hidden hearing loss should be gone as well.

 

[RB2014]

As indicated earlier by Aaron, it's indicated with profound (i.e. somewhere around 95Db loss) the supporting cells would be gone and FX methods would not work, not with 50.

Moderate hearing loss is around 50. I said greater than 50. I think it matches with what the quote says. After you go beyond moderate hearing loss or 50db then the theory is that you don't have supporting cells anymore and there is a good chance this won't work. After 50db it is called severe loss. 80db plus is profound hearing loss. I think I interpreted the quote correctly, but there is probably some margin for error.

I dont think I can edit the first post to create a timeline.

 

[Berik]

Moderate hearing loss is around 50. I said greater than 50. I think it matches with what the quote says. [..] After 50db it is called severe loss. 80db plus is profound hearing loss. I think I interpreted the quote correctly, but there is probably some margin for error.

The quote refers to profound. Moderate is considered up to 55. 55 - 70 is considered moderate severe. 70 - 90 is considered severe. You should not think things, you should know them, before you make statement.

This topic, as with a lot, provides hope to people. We might be lucky that we are not affected to this extend but others may be. If you are saying this will not work for those with HL beyond 50, you might affect member's hope, while there is no scientific base to state so.

The only statement the quote makes is that with profound (90/95db) the supporting cells are gone, and with mild to moderate the supporting cells are there.

 

[Aaron123]

Some news from Frequency with a (new?) chief medical officer: http://www.frequencytx.com/news-events/news-events-press-release-04-13-2018.php

 

[parsky]

Some news from Frequency with a (new?) chief medical officer: http://www.frequencytx.com/news-events/news-events-press-release-04-13-2018.php

He comes from Eli Lilly. I believe LY411575, the most potent (that I'm aware of), gamma-secretase inhibitor is made by Eli Lilly and is what Frequency is using in FX-322 based on published papers.

 

[IvanRus]

They switch to diabetes and are sprayed.

It's probably not good. Probably, in the field of ear regeneration, it's not so obvious in the foreseeable future that they decided to switch to diabetes?!
What do you say?

 

[reggie green]

it's not really why say that.

 

[Aaron123]

They switch to diabetes and are sprayed.

It's probably not good. Probably, in the field of ear regeneration, it's not so obvious in the foreseeable future that they decided to switch to diabetes?!
What do you say?

They haven't "switched to" diabetes. They have expanded to other areas including diabetes, muscle regeneration, and ""demyelinating diseases, skin disorders and gastrointestinal diseases."

This is not surprising because they are not first and foremost a hearing loss company; they are a company built around a tool (PCA). It makes complete sense for them to diversify.

That said, they are a small company, and I do worry that a broader focus shifts resources away from hearing. There's nothing for us to do but wait and see what's in the next paper and when they announce details of the Phase 2 trial.

 

[Pero1234]

On the other hand... if their first attempt at hearing fails, they don't immediately lose all credibility (funds).

Betting on multiple horses may be a good idea... as long as they are structured and efficient enough to keep up quality work.