Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[rid0871]

They should let the people in the trial talk.

Give people some kind of damn HOPE.

 

[JohnAdams]

They should let the people in the trial talk.

Give people some kind of damn HOPE.

They can't. What would be cool though is now that they know it is safe, to just go ahead and let us have it, out of pocket and let us be the efficacy trial. I want it. At least I think I do.

 

[JohnAdams]

++++Scary Question Time++++

So there are outer hair cells that amplify the sound and inner hair cells that actually transmit the sound to the brain??

There's also hair cell death, as well as hair cell damage.

So if you take that into account, there are 3 states for each set:
No damage, damage, and death.
So inner cells and out cells could have any of these 3 states, which would result in a 3 x 3 = 9 sets of situations.

Terms:
IHC = inner hair cell
OHC = outer hair cell
ND = no damage
DM = damage
DT = death
HA = hyperacusis
HL = hearing loss
T = tinnitus
IHC-ND + OHC-ND = Healthy hearing
IHC-ND + OHC-DM = HL and/or HA?
IHC-ND + OHC-DT = only HL?
IHC-DM + OHC-ND = T and/or HA?
IHC-DM + OHC-DM = T and HA?
IHC-DM + OHC-DT = T + HL?
IHC-DT + all OHC conditions = T + HL?

Now my question is this: what is going to be the effect of FX-322 on each of these different conditions? Will regenerated hair cells replace merely damaged ones? Can a situation exist where there are only dead hair cells and no damages ones?

I'm starting to think this is a far greater problem than simply the activation of progenitor cells.

What think you?

 

[katri]

++++Scary Question Time++++

So there are outer hair cells that amplify the sound and inner hair cells that actually transmit the sound to the brain??

There's also hair cell death, as well as hair cell damage.

So if you take that into account, there are 3 states for each set:
No damage, damage, and death.
So inner cells and out cells could have any of these 3 states, which would result in a 3 x 3 = 9 sets of situations.

Terms:
IHC = inner hair cell
OHC = outer hair cell
ND = no damage
DM = damage
DT = death
HA = hyperacusis
HL = hearing loss
T = tinnitus
IHC-ND + OHC-ND = Healthy hearing
IHC-ND + OHC-DM = HL and/or HA?
IHC-ND + OHC-DT = only HL?
IHC-DM + OHC-ND = T and/or HA?
IHC-DM + OHC-DM = T and HA?
IHC-DM + OHC-DT = T + HL?
IHC-DT + all OHC conditions = T + HL?

Now my question is this: what is going to be the effect of FX-322 on each of these different conditions? Will regenerated hair cells replace merely damaged ones? Can a situation exist where there are only dead hair cells and no damages ones?

I'm starting to think this is a far greater problem than simply the activation of progenitor cells.

What think you?

https://www.livescience.com/55830-sea-anemone-proteins-could-fix-damaged-hearing.html

Might help a bit. There's a chance it's all working out.

 

[1000]

++++Scary Question Time++++

So there are outer hair cells that amplify the sound and inner hair cells that actually transmit the sound to the brain??

There's also hair cell death, as well as hair cell damage.

So if you take that into account, there are 3 states for each set:
No damage, damage, and death.
So inner cells and out cells could have any of these 3 states, which would result in a 3 x 3 = 9 sets of situations.

Terms:
IHC = inner hair cell
OHC = outer hair cell
ND = no damage
DM = damage
DT = death
HA = hyperacusis
HL = hearing loss
T = tinnitus
IHC-ND + OHC-ND = Healthy hearing
IHC-ND + OHC-DM = HL and/or HA?
IHC-ND + OHC-DT = only HL?
IHC-DM + OHC-ND = T and/or HA?
IHC-DM + OHC-DM = T and HA?
IHC-DM + OHC-DT = T + HL?
IHC-DT + all OHC conditions = T + HL?

Now my question is this: what is going to be the effect of FX-322 on each of these different conditions? Will regenerated hair cells replace merely damaged ones? Can a situation exist where there are only dead hair cells and no damages ones?

I'm starting to think this is a far greater problem than simply the activation of progenitor cells.

What think you?

Hit with a good question, but that's upon a researcher from Frequency or Decibel etc... to answer up.

 

[Pero1234]

++++Scary Question Time++++

So there are outer hair cells that amplify the sound and inner hair cells that actually transmit the sound to the brain??

There's also hair cell death, as well as hair cell damage.

So if you take that into account, there are 3 states for each set:
No damage, damage, and death.
So inner cells and out cells could have any of these 3 states, which would result in a 3 x 3 = 9 sets of situations.

Terms:
IHC = inner hair cell
OHC = outer hair cell
ND = no damage
DM = damage
DT = death
HA = hyperacusis
HL = hearing loss
T = tinnitus
IHC-ND + OHC-ND = Healthy hearing
IHC-ND + OHC-DM = HL and/or HA?
IHC-ND + OHC-DT = only HL?
IHC-DM + OHC-ND = T and/or HA?
IHC-DM + OHC-DM = T and HA?
IHC-DM + OHC-DT = T + HL?
IHC-DT + all OHC conditions = T + HL?

Now my question is this: what is going to be the effect of FX-322 on each of these different conditions? Will regenerated hair cells replace merely damaged ones? Can a situation exist where there are only dead hair cells and no damages ones?

I'm starting to think this is a far greater problem than simply the activation of progenitor cells.

What think you?

I always wonder... progenitor cells regrow hair cells, right? Wouldn't it be easier (or only possible) to regrow hair cells in places where they are dead and withered? If there is still a hair cell present (even though it's damaged)... it will not just be replaced.

So many unknown factors.

 

[JohnAdams]

I always wonder... progenitor cells regrow hair cells, right? Wouldn't it be easier (or only possible) to regrow hair cells in places where they are dead and withered? If there is still a hair cell present (even though it's damaged)... it will not just be replaced.

So many unknown factors.

I think there's a great chance you're right.

 

[katri]

https://www.healthyhearing.com/report/47482-Hearing-loss-cure-

This is gene therapy, but the same thing might be occurring with regular progenitor cell regeneration.

"However, the mice's supporting cells spontaneously "migrated to the hair cell region and began growing hair bundles on their surfaces," the researchers reported. Still, hearing was not restored, but a later study offered more hope.

An experiment was performed using guinea pigs and gene therapy developed in previous studies. Again, the supporting cells migrated, but this time partially restored the hearing, indicating that gene therapy could improve hearing in formerly deaf animals.

This means that possibly not one, but a combination of therapies, could be used in the future to restore hearing."​

 

[Soren]

I always wonder... progenitor cells regrow hair cells, right? Wouldn't it be easier (or only possible) to regrow hair cells in places where they are dead and withered? If there is still a hair cell present (even though it's damaged)... it will not just be replaced.

So many unknown factors.

Just send a mail Jeff Karp`s way to see if he answers.

 

[streeter1985]

I always wonder... progenitor cells regrow hair cells, right? Wouldn't it be easier (or only possible) to regrow hair cells in places where they are dead and withered? If there is still a hair cell present (even though it's damaged)... it will not just be replaced.

I think to identify where hair cells died and to create a drug that can identify it is even more trickier. I think we are too far away from that.

 

[JohnAdams]

I think to identify where hair cells died and to create a drug that can identify it is even more trickier. I think we are too far away from that.

From my research, I think there are different levels of certain proteins in supporting cells of the dead hair cells and the healthy hair cells. I don't think the drug will cause hair cells to grow where they already exist.

 

[Contrast]

From my research, I think there are different levels of certain proteins in supporting cells of the dead hair cells and the healthy hair cells. I don't think the drug will cause hair cells to grow where they already exist.

How do you know this? I want a professional to answer this question.

So lemme guess my de-nerved hair cells still count as hair cells even though they lost the majority of their ribbon synapses?

Remember hair cells are more durable and it's the ribbon synapses that go first making them basically work half ass with speech in background noise or things people enjoy like music.

FML.

 

[JohnAdams]

How do you know this? I want a professional to answer this question.

So lemme guess my de-nerved hair cells still count as hair cells even though they lost the majority of their ribbon synapses?

Remember hair cells are more durable and it's the ribbon synapses that go first making them basically work half ass with speech in background noise or things people enjoy like music.

FML.

I said "I think" not "I know". Also it looks like they know how to repair synapses.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29485861/

We need the government to allow doctors to test this stuff on us.

 

[JohnAdams]

How do you know this? I want a professional to answer this question.

So lemme guess my de-nerved hair cells still count as hair cells even though they lost the majority of their ribbon synapses?

Remember hair cells are more durable and it's the ribbon synapses that go first making them basically work half ass with speech in background noise or things people enjoy like music.

FML.

Dude if there was only one dose of the cure I would gladly let you have it over me. I'm sorry you're suffering man.

 

[PlsHelpMe]

Any updates?

 

[d'Wooluf]

Any updates?

Since when? Go back a couple of pages and look for the video I linked to. It's as up-to-date as you'll find.

 

[JohnAdams]

Seriously major question:

If FX-322 is safe, and some of us are on the edge of a suicidal cliff (I'm very thankful to not be there, but empathize deeply with those who are) then what good reason is there to not go ahead and let those deeply troubled tinnitus sufferers go ahead and at least try it when this trial concludes in December?

What is more important than helping these poor souls ASAP?

 

[Pero1234]

Seriously major question:

If FX-322 is safe, and some of us are on the edge of a suicidal cliff (I'm very thankful to not be there, but empathize deeply with those who are) then what good reason is there to not go ahead and let those deeply troubled tinnitus sufferers go ahead and at least try it when this trial concludes in December?

What is more important than helping these poor souls ASAP?

That's what Donald Trump approved, right?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/30/trump-signs-right-to-try-legislation-on-experimental-medicines.html

May take a while to get implemented.

 

[Chad Lawton]

https://www.healthyhearing.com/report/47482-Hearing-loss-cure-

"However, the mice's supporting cells spontaneously "migrated to the hair cell region and began growing hair bundles on their surfaces," the researchers reported. Still, hearing was not restored, but a later study offered more hope."​

This study was done in 2007. I can imagine we have come a long way in 10 years on this and this is what Frequency Therapeutics has been ironing out the details on the last few years in testing all the different drug combinations.

 

[katri]

This study was done in 2007. I can imagine we have come a long way in 10 years on this and this is what Frequency Therapeutics has been ironing out the details on the last few years in testing all the different drug combinations.

My thoughts exactly. I doubt they'd be focusing on a method that does not produce the right cells in the right places.

 

[JohnAdams]

This study was done in 2007. I can imagine we have come a long way in 10 years on this and this is what Frequency Therapeutics has been ironing out the details on the last few years in testing all the different drug combinations.

Yes they have since restored hearing in mice.

 

[katri]

Is it worth looking up the regrowth of synapses to try and figure out what approaches Frequency Therapeutics might take or any other companies aiming to do the same thing?

 

[JohnAdams]

Is it worth looking up the regrowth of synapses to try and figure out what approaches Frequency Therapeutics might take or any other companies aiming to do the same thing?

Probably not.

 

[PlsHelpMe]

I think the main challenge isn't growing the hair cells in the right place. The main challenge is to deliver the drug into the right place. I might be wrong.

 

[katri]

I think the main challenge isn't growing the hair cells in the right place. The main challenge is to deliver the drug into the right place. I might be wrong.

I think the main challenge is confirming the functionality of the newly grown hair cells.

 

[Street Novelist]

I wish someone who had an injection would let us know how it's going. The suspense is killing me. And if the drug does work, how long will we have to wait for the next phase?

 

[Soren]

I wish someone who had an injection would let us know how it's going. The suspense is killing me. And if the drug does work, how long will we have to wait for the next phase?

Phase 2 will start next year and by the end of 2019 end we should see the results of that.

 

[grate_biff]

I think the main challenge isn't growing the hair cells in the right place. The main challenge is to deliver the drug into the right place. I might be wrong.

The drug will diffuse into the cochlea and mix with the fluid in there. They tested the concentration levels, over time, and it was successful in phase l. I don´t think this is the problem.

I, too, am most worried about what @Contrast said. That a healthy HC, but with retracted ribbon synapses, will not get regenerated, thus this drug will be futile for this kind of damage.

@Street Novelist. I agree, the suspense is killing me.

 

[d'Wooluf]

Is it worth looking up the regrowth of synapses to try and figure out what approaches Frequency Therapeutics might take or any other companies aiming to do the same thing?

From http://www.hearingreview.com/2018/10/university-rochester-researchers-regrow-sensory-hair-cells/

"The researchers found that activating the ERBB2 pathway triggered a cascading series of cellular events by which cochlear support cells began to proliferate and start the process of activating other neighboring stem cells to become new sensory hair cells. Furthermore, it appears that this process not only could impact the regeneration of sensory hair cells, but also support their integration with nerve cells."​

From memory, Frequency Therapeutics hope their drug will do something similar. I don't have the reference though.

 

[JohnAdams]

I wish someone who had an injection would let us know how it's going. The suspense is killing me. And if the drug does work, how long will we have to wait for the next phase?

6-9 months.