Fudan University's Huperzine A Tinnitus Study

[FGG]

Somehow this trial has fallen under the radar but is interesting and the current phase wraps up end of this year:

Effects of Huperzine A on Presbycusis(Δ,kHz, dB,MMSE, AD)

Huperzine A is an Acetylcholinesterase (AChE) Inhibitor and it seems most relevant to age-related hearing loss sufferers as acetylcholine availability can decline significantly with age:

Cholinergic Hypofunction in Presbycusis-Related Tinnitus With Cognitive Function Impairment: Emerging Hypotheses

It may explain an additional factor for the accelerated worsening some people get with advanced age (apart from just worse hearing loss) as acetylcholine hypofunction can be pro-inflammatory as well as impair normal GABA function (may have implications for those with benzo withdrawal?).

As Huperzine A is also found in some supplements, it may be worth trying especially in small and/or pulsed doses as not to downregulate receptors. I will try to follow this one...

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

I think I saw this one on one of the FX-322 papers, they listed them as competitors.

Thank you for making a thread about them @FGG. I do wonder how many other drugs we aren't aware of.

 

[RichieTheKid]

Somehow this trial has fallen under the radar but is interesting and the current phase wraps up end of this year:

Effects of Huperzine A on Presbycusis(Δ,kHz, dB,MMSE, AD)

Huperzine A is an Acetylcholinesterase (AChE) Inhibitor and it seems most relevant to age-related hearing loss sufferers as acetylcholine availability can decline significantly with age:

Cholinergic Hypofunction in Presbycusis-Related Tinnitus With Cognitive Function Impairment: Emerging Hypotheses

It may explain an additional factor for the accelerated worsening some people get with advanced age (apart from just worse hearing loss) as acetylcholine hypofunction can be pro-inflammatory as well as impair normal GABA function (may have implications for those with benzo withdrawal?).

As Huperzine A is also found in some supplements, it may be worth trying especially in small and/or pulsed doses as not to downregulate receptors. I will try to follow this one...

Do you know offhand which supplements this Huperzine A would be in? And for someone like who me likely had some acetylcholinesterase receptor damage due to my specific incident, would it be safe to increase my intake? If some of my receptors aren't working, it's likely too much may overload the still functioning ones or am I wrong here?

 

[FGG]

Do you know offhand which supplements this Huperzine A would be in? And for someone like who me likely had some acetylcholinesterase receptor damage due to my specific incident, would it be safe to increase my intake? If some of my receptors aren't working, it's likely too much may overload the still functioning ones or am I wrong here?

At least in the US, they have them on Amazon (search "Chinese Club Moss" or even just "Huperzine A") but I'm not sure about... Russia?

And yes, too much stimulation, over a long term especially, has at least the potential (but there aren't long term studies in this case) to build receptor tolerance or down regulation with any neurotransmitter receptor. It's unknown how much that applies here. To give you an example, smoking effects the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (one subtype) and most people get off cigarettes just fine.

But if you did low dose and worked up slowly using minimum effective dose, pulsed therapy (using it only a few times a week and/or weaned off gradually, if needed), you'd minimize this (unknown and possibly not significant but you never know) risk.

 

[RichieTheKid]

At least in the US, they have them on Amazon (search "Chinese Club Moss" or even just "Huperzine A") but I'm not sure about... Russia?

And yes, too much stimulation, over a long term especially, has at least the potential (but there aren't long term studies in this case) to build receptor tolerance or down regulation with any neurotransmitter receptor. It's unknown how much that applies here. To give you an example, smoking effects the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (one subtype) and most people get off cigarettes just fine.

But if you did low dose and worked up slowly using minimum effective dose, pulsed therapy (using it only a few times a week and/or weaned off gradually, if needed), you'd minimize this (unknown and possibly not significant but you never know) risk.

Thanks for this great knowledge.

Right now I've found a definite supplement train that works for me, and that is every day just one Nature's Way fish oil capsule and some Swanson chelated magnesium, approximately 133 mg per capsule, as I tried other forms of magnesium including the powdered form and I found while the effect was more pronounced and direct than this chelated, when it wore off my tinnitus would spike badly, but with the chelated there is no in your face effect, and it seems to release slowly and nicely for me.

I also take Jamieson Vitamin D3 1000IU for like 2 or 3 days and then I don't for about 3 or 4 days and so on. This has been working quite nicely for me, the Vitamin D really does give me strength and it is not a very high dose.

Recently I tried Dandelion Root tea and worked out it does make me urinate a lot being a diuretic. It also has a calming effect, but if I took it every day I would not feel good. I realize now that I've used it for about a week and half now, my body has got what it needed and doesn't want it every day, so I may just limit that to once or twice a week max.

Even more recently I was trying NAC. The first two days I took it, it alleviated my visual snow hardcore and somehow made me hear better, but it didn't do anything for the tinnitus. However, taking it four days in a row, the visual snow issues spiked again and it made me feel very hyper alert, thus making me realize I definitely needed it the first day as I felt calm, but literally it seems to be very powerful whatever it does and it's not something I should take every day, so I'm still deciding if it should be once a week or twice a week, and once I find the right balance I think I'll be ok.

I'm like the most sensitive man ever to anything ever so knowing about any and everything I take is important. The Dandelion root tea also alleviated my visual snow syndrome in the first week but not in the second week so it tells me my body gets depleted of certain nutrients, this is for sure, and builds up toxins, fluids etc, but I need to find the right timing in order to achieve balance and feeling good when I take these things.

 

[FGG]

Thanks for this great knowledge.

Right now I've found a definite supplement train that works for me, and that is every day just one Nature's Way fish oil capsule and some Swanson chelated magnesium, approximately 133 mg per capsule, as I tried other forms of magnesium including the powdered form and I found while the effect was more pronounced and direct than this chelated, when it wore off my tinnitus would spike badly, but with the chelated there is no in your face effect, and it seems to release slowly and nicely for me.

I also take Jamieson Vitamin D3 1000IU for like 2 or 3 days and then I don't for about 3 or 4 days and so on. This has been working quite nicely for me, the Vitamin D really does give me strength and it is not a very high dose.

Recently I tried Dandelion Root tea and worked out it does make me urinate a lot being a diuretic. It also has a calming effect, but if I took it every day I would not feel good. I realize now that I've used it for about a week and half now, my body has got what it needed and doesn't want it every day, so I may just limit that to once or twice a week max.

Even more recently I was trying NAC. The first two days I took it, it alleviated my visual snow hardcore and somehow made me hear better, but it didn't do anything for the tinnitus. However, taking it four days in a row, the visual snow issues spiked again and it made me feel very hyper alert, thus making me realize I definitely needed it the first day as I felt calm, but literally it seems to be very powerful whatever it does and it's not something I should take every day, so I'm still deciding if it should be once a week or twice a week, and once I find the right balance I think I'll be ok.

I'm like the most sensitive man ever to anything ever so knowing about any and everything I take is important. The Dandelion root tea also alleviated my visual snow syndrome in the first week but not in the second week so it tells me my body gets depleted of certain nutrients, this is for sure, and builds up toxins, fluids etc, but I need to find the right timing in order to achieve balance and feeling good when I take these things.

Just my opinion but if you thought these things were working for you, I might not try to tweak it too much.

 

[Lane]

I started taking Huperzine A 1-2 years ago, and was super impressed with what it did for my cognitive function. I do a LOT of online reading, research and various kinds of surfing, and I was beginning to forget what I wanted to do next. Literally, within 1-2 hours of taking my first dose, I noticed my brain (and focus) was sailing along much better than normal. And it stayed that way for many months, without fail.

We then had our house burn down last September, and all of a sudden had none of my regular supplements for several months. When I finally got some Huperzine A again, I had the very same experience. I take it every day and wouldn't want to be without it again for several months. I've tried two different brands, and I had the same results with both. Here's the one I'm currently taking, and which I believe is one of the better deals. -- I view this supplement as both benign and very effective (for me anyway).

Nutricost Huperzine A Capsules 200mcg, 240 Capsules - Non-GMO, Vegan Friendly

BTW, I would be shocked if at least some people with tinnitus are not helped by Huperzine A. Whatever supports the brain is likely to support the ears as well.

 

[GBB]

As one of the resident guinea pigs, I ordered some to try.

 

[Tigo]

I just orderd this one. I have presbycusis and tinnitus. Please god, let this be the one.

 

[Chinmoku]

I'm desperate and tortured. I ordered this too. @FGG do you think it could interfere negatively with benzos in theory?

I skimmed through the trial document, they recommend 0.2 mg once or twice the day but do I understand it right that you need to take it for one year, or could effects show up earlier?

And finally, is there any idea for the negative side effects this might have? Sorry for all the questions.

 

[FGG]

@FGG do you think it could interfere negatively with benzos in theory?

I skimmed through the trial document, they recommend 0.2 mg once or twice the day but do I understand it right that you need to take it for one year, or could effects show up earlier?

And finally, is there any idea for the negative side effects this might have? Sorry for all the questions.

I don't know the answer to any of these questions. I'm sorry. I hope it helps though...

 

[Chinmoku]

I don't know the answer to any of these questions. I'm sorry. I hope it helps though...

Ok I checked a benzo support forum. One of the members wrote this on mental benefits (nothing about tinnitus):

Well, I did try it and I'm going to continue taking it. I noticed an improvement in my memory and mental functioning from the first day. It didn't completely banish my brain fog, unfortunately (which at this point I'm confident is the result of a thyroid issue I was just diagnosed with, so is probably not withdrawal), but the way it boosted my mind was pretty incredible. I was able to recall things noticeably faster and I could feel my brain functioning easier, like it had been given a drink of water. I definitely plan to keep taking it to hopefully continue to repair. It feels pretty gentle but it's powerful and starts working in just a few minutes. I've been taking 200mcg every other day or every three days. Like the video says, definitely don't take it every day or you could end up with too much acetylcholine, which can cause opposite effects such as fatigue and depression.

I wrote to the author of that post to ask for more information.
This user suggests not to take it daily but every other day or even less.

A user in the same benzo forum had seizures with this supplement, so one has to be careful.

If I understand correctly, benzos shut down the Acetylcholine receptors while Huperzine A could open them. So they go in opposite directions, but if one is in benzo withdrawal then Huperzine A might exacerbate the withdrawal? So perhaps to be taken once off benzos or on a stable benzo dose.

 

[Lane]

do you think it could interfere negatively with benzos in theory?

@Chinmoku -- The way I understand it, benzos affect GABA receptors in the brain and neurological system, whereas Huperzine A affects the Acetylcholine levels in the body by breaking down the enzyme that normally breaks down Acetylcholine. Thus, you're maintaining a higher level of Acetylcholine throughout the day, which is a critical neurotransmitter for memory creation. Given their entirely different modes of operation, I think the chance of there being a "conflict" between the two would be minimal.

do I understand it right that you need to take it for one year, or could effects show up earlier?

I mentioned in my earlier post that I noticed very significant benefits within 1-2 hours after taking my very first dose. My ability to multi-task while being on the computer was the first thing I noticed. I noticed other cognitive improvements as well. I may be an outlier because of my sensitive system, but I would think the vast majority of people will notice something within a relatively short time--if they're going to notice anything at all.

is there any idea for the negative side effects this might have?

My understanding is that it's normal for Acetylcholine levels in the body to decrease as we age. I guess the question is, is it better to have levels that are normal for a young person, or levels that are normal for an older person. For me the answer is super clear; I'd rather have levels of a young person.

It's the same reason I supplement with Pregnenolone, which is the precursor for a number of hormones in the body. As we age, the hormones levels of youth begin to go down, leading to things like depression, sleep issues, etc. Bringing these hormone levels back up can do wonders for a variety of "mental" conditions.

As far as the possibility of any "negative effects", I don't give it a second thought. I've been using it for a couple years or so, and it continues to give me good benefits, with nary a sense of it doing anything negative. Though supplements of all kinds can have various "side effects", in comparison to drugs, they're usually much more benign and dangerous. Prescription drugs apparently kill 100-200K people a year, which sometimes give people the idea that supplements might be just as dangerous. Generally speaking, that's simply not the case.

 

[Chinmoku]

Thank you for reporting your experience in detail @Lane. Your positive cognitive enhancement experience seems to be in line with the BenzoBuddies user I quoted above.

However, in BenzoBuddies one user claimed benzos and Huperzine A have opposite effects on Acetylcholine receptors. I was wondering about that.

 

[Lane]

one user claimed benzos and Huperzine A have opposite effects on Acetylcholine receptors. I was wondering about that.

@Chinmoku -- That's actually why I often say something to the effect, "my understanding is...". That way it sounds less definitive, but still conveys a sense of conviction about what my understanding is. I started doing that after discovering that my understanding isn't always correct (took me too long lol), nor is it for anybody else. It's just part of the nature of being human that we get it wrong sometimes. -- I think you have good reason to suspect that what that one user said is open to error.

 

[Croaker]

I took 400 mcg of Huperzine A a couple hours ago. I didn't feel much, equivalent to a little caffeine. No effect on tinnitus/hyperacusis.

 

[Croaker]

Minor update: I just woke up from a night of seriously intense dreaming. I knew some people use this stuff for that but I didn't expect the effect to be so immediate and strong. Be prepared for that if you decide to take a large dose like I did.

 

[Lane]

Be prepared for that if you decide to take a large dose like I did.

@Croaker -- Thanks for the update. I have to say, I did a double take when I saw how much you took for your initial dose. So it doesn't surprise me you had that kind of reaction. I don't believe I've ever taken more than 200 mcg, and only take it once a day right now. It really doesn't take much (for me) to notice a big difference.

 

[GBB]

I started this today. I don't expect to see any change day 1 of anything - will update in a week. I take 200mcg.

 

[Christine2222]

Somehow this trial has fallen under the radar but is interesting and the current phase wraps up end of this year:

Effects of Huperzine A on Presbycusis(Δ,kHz, dB,MMSE, AD)

Huperzine A is an Acetylcholinesterase (AChE) Inhibitor and it seems most relevant to age-related hearing loss sufferers as acetylcholine availability can decline significantly with age:

Cholinergic Hypofunction in Presbycusis-Related Tinnitus With Cognitive Function Impairment: Emerging Hypotheses

It may explain an additional factor for the accelerated worsening some people get with advanced age (apart from just worse hearing loss) as acetylcholine hypofunction can be pro-inflammatory as well as impair normal GABA function (may have implications for those with benzo withdrawal?).

As Huperzine A is also found in some supplements, it may be worth trying especially in small and/or pulsed doses as not to downregulate receptors. I will try to follow this one...

Any news on if this study has actually been completed? Is it still in the enrollment phase?

 

[FGG]

Any news on if this study has actually been completed? Is it still in the enrollment phase?

Enrollment is complete and they are following participants for a year it looks like (with results December of this year).

 

[Christine2222]

I started taking Huperzine A 1-2 years ago, and was super impressed with what it did for my cognitive function. I do a LOT of online reading, research and various kinds of surfing, and I was beginning to forget what I wanted to do next. Literally, within 1-2 hours of taking my first dose, I noticed my brain (and focus) was sailing along much better than normal. And it stayed that way for many months, without fail.

We then had our house burn down last September, and all of a sudden had none of my regular supplements for several months. When I finally got some Huperzine A again, I had the very same experience. I take it every day and wouldn't want to be without it again for several months. I've tried two different brands, and I had the same results with both. Here's the one I'm currently taking, and which I believe is one of the better deals. -- I view this supplement as both benign and very effective (for me anyway).

Nutricost Huperzine A Capsules 200mcg, 240 Capsules - Non-GMO, Vegan Friendly

BTW, I would be shocked if at least some people with tinnitus are not helped by Huperzine A. Whatever supports the brain is likely to support the ears as well.

Does it help your hyperacusis at all?

 

[antonio77]

I don't understand, Huperzine A is something that has been known and used in China for centuries. Don't you think that if it worked for tinnitus, it would have been used for many years by now?

 

[FGG]

I don't understand, Huperzine A is something that has been known and used in China for centuries. Don't you think that if it worked for tinnitus, it would have been used for many years by now?

Seems logical. It seems like they are testing it on presbycusis patients with tinnitus at a certain dose over a longer time span (1 year), so it's possible they may find effects.

My hunch is if it was dramatic, it might still be already known but it may still have some worthwhile effect.

 

[antonio77]

The problem is that tinnitus is always secondary. That is, you (pharmaceutical companies, doctors etc.) can use something for memory for decades without realizing that it can be used for tinnitus, simply because tinnitus does not matter to anyone.

Most tinnitus medications are not for tinnitus but for other ailments: hearing loss, memory, sclerosis, etc.

 

[vttbx]

FYI:

In a study of dietary supplements claiming to contain huperzine A, we found products that had at least one ingredient claimed on the supplement facts label not detected through analysis. Moreover, some ingredients not on the label could be dangerous and likely do not meet the definition of a dietary supplement ingredient according to the FDA. Quantitative analysis of huperzine A showed the amount detected was not in line with what appeared on the product label. Consumers should be aware of deceptive label claims and warned not to purchase products containing potentially dangerous ingredients.

The scoop on brain health dietary supplement products containing huperzine A​

 

[Lane]

The scoop on brain health dietary supplement products containing huperzine A

Looks like another 2-bit hit job by conventional medicine on just about any supplement that's not a lucrative drug they can peddle to the unsuspecting public.

 

[2noist]

Looks like another 2-bit hit job by conventional medicine on just about any supplement that's not a lucrative drug they can peddle to the unsuspecting public.

Many supplements don't contain what they promise to contain. And some supplements contain dangerous substances.

There is much less oversight in the supplement products than in pharmaceuticals.

 

[FGG]

Looks like another 2-bit hit job by conventional medicine on just about any supplement that's not a lucrative drug they can peddle to the unsuspecting public.

It might not be.

There was a university veterinary study on Melatonin supplements (there is a kind of uncommon pet hair loss that Melatonin treats) because results were so variable and of the ones they tested, they found only one supplement contained as much Melatonin as on the label (which was the therapeutic dose) and that was Nature Made. And from experience, that really was the brand that worked in these dogs.

There is little to no supplement regulation unfortunately.

 

[Lane]

There is little to no supplement regulation unfortunately.

@FGG -- I totally agree with those sentiments, and I think everybody should be super careful about the supplements they choose to buy and use.

That said, I've seen over and over again various regulatory agencies (FDA, etc.) and conventional medicine journals and articles constantly poo pooing almost any kind of vitamin, herb, etc. They have an inflexible mind set on drugs, and give very little attention to lifestyle and building up the body. It's who they are.