Goodbye Social Life

[geg1992]

Hi all,

Trying to get my life back on track so just met up with some friends at the pub. There was music playing and people speaking loudly.

I measured wth my iPhone app and the decibel was constantly fluctuating between 80-90db. It peaked at 97 at one point. I was only there for 45 minutes and my ears are ringing louder.

I really feel I shouldn't have gone, I felt so bad leaving and it just seems like my social life is over.

 

[luka]

No it's not. Get a ear plugs and you'll be okay.

 

[geg1992]

No it's not. Get a ear plugs and you'll be okay.

I've tried ear plugs before, it just hurts my ears when I speak and I can't judge the loudness of my voice properly.

 

[Markku]

I've tried ear plugs before, it just hurts my ears when I speak and I can't judge the loudness of my voice properly.

You should get a good set of custom ear plugs. They make a world of difference.

http://acscustom.com/uk/product-category/hearing-protection/

http://www.etymotic.com/consumer/hearing-protection/erme.html

http://www.elacin.com/nl/en/shop/product/41/music-er25

 

[luka]

I've tried ear plugs before, it just hurts my ears when I speak and I can't judge the loudness of my voice properly.

Cmon Get used to it, it's not that bad. You can use the wax ones which can nicely adjust your ears. When I buy a new shoes they always give me some pains for a couple of days, after that all goes smooth It' s the same with the plugs.

 

[svintegrity]

What kind of ear plugs do you recommend?

 

[Telis]

I've tried ear plugs before, it just hurts my ears when I speak and I can't judge the loudness of my voice properly.

I have the same thing, as soon as I block my ears with anything my voice is painfully loud internally. If you have H, this is aweful. Also eating food with plugs in is really tough on the ears. When your ears are plugged your voice is boosted on average 20db so if you are raising your voice it can defeat the purpose of wearing ear protection all together depending on the exterior volume you are protecting against. Also if I wear protection my T seems to be so high that I quickly want to take them out for relief. I tend to just sit there without speaking listening to my tinnitus blast away, I don't find this to be any type of fun. I have done it quite a few times (more to please others) and it just gets me totally upset as I watch everyone around me have a blast while I sit in my own hell. I no longer even bother with it. It's tough to give up as I am/was a very social person but this isn't sociallizing as far as I'm concerned.

This internal noise is a issue, I would like to do activities as well but no one can tell me how loud it is. Things like tennis, pounding around on pavement with ear plugs in sounds like I have my ear directly in front of a subwoofer blasting away. It sounds loud, how loud, I have no idea. Determining what is safe is imposible in this way. Another example: try plugging your ears and eating something crunchy, how loud is this? It sounds dangerously loud, I'm guessing 90-100db but maybe I'm way off.

 

[walkthroughwalls]

I know that feeling... Please try to say calm, the spike is probably only temporary as you have not subjected your ears to anything damaging.
And as far as your social life... I don't think all hope is lost in your case!

Earplugs take some getting used to, but it can be done. Even the foam ones! Try feeling what a normal speaking level is, and not relying on what you're hearing.
(I'm better at it now than years before. Although sometimes, my friends subtly point out that I'm yelling anyway )

The ones @Markku recommended are the best. Pick the filters which best suit the environment you're going to be in.


I don't think our own voice and chewing sounds are actually louder when using earplugs, they only seem a lot louder. The human ear does dampen loud sounds to a certain degree, so that we can hear detail even when sounds are very quiet. Also, the brain tends to focus on whatever input is given, like 'amplifying ones focus'. So, a ticking clock in a silent room will appear to be much louder/important than the same clock with a radio playing in the background.

I hope any of this helps!

 

[Telis]

I know that feeling... Please try to say calm, the spike is probably only temporary as you have not subjected your ears to anything damaging.
And as far as your social life... I don't think all hope is lost in your case!

Earplugs take some getting used to, but it can be done. Even the foam ones! Try feeling what a normal speaking level is, and not relying on what you're hearing.
(I'm better at it now than years before. Although sometimes, my friends subtly point out that I'm yelling anyway )

The ones @Markku recommended are the best. Pick the filters which best suit the environment you're going to be in.


I don't think our own voice and chewing sounds are actually louder when using earplugs, they only seem a lot louder. The human ear does dampen loud sounds to a certain degree, so that we can hear detail even when sounds are very quiet. Also, the brain tends to focus on whatever input is given, like 'amplifying ones focus'. So, a ticking clock in a silent room will appear to be much louder/important than the same clock with a radio playing in the background.

I hope any of this helps!

No this is false....this is not just perception/imagination, it's called occlusion effect:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occlusion_effect

Ps-Some internal sounds can be amplified up to 1000x with a blocked ear cannal. I wil try and find the link.

 

[geg1992]

No this is false....this is not just perception/imagination, it's called occlusion effect:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occlusion_effect

That's quite scary, wearing ear plugs in social situations is pointless then as it will cause more damage?

 

[Telis]

That's quite scary, wearing ear plugs in social situations is pointless then as it will cause more damage?

Yes, as I stated in my first post, if you are raising your voice you could easily extend beyond the sound presure level you are trying to protect against. This is the reason I just sit there, not becasue I like it.

Dont let ear plugs give you a false sense of security.

I think this is the reason H can get so bad, not becasue of a lack of input caused by overprotecting but by interal sounds being way too loud while the ears are blocked.

 

[linearb]

Low frequency noise is less damaging than high frequency noise; wear earplugs, don't go around screaming, and you'll be fine.

Occlusion only affects very low frequencies, which are less damaging in any case. I don't like wearing ear plugs, but you get used to it.

 

[walkthroughwalls]

No this is false....this is not just perception/imagination, it's called occlusion effect:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occlusion_effect

Ps-Some internal sounds can be amplified up to 1000x with a blocked ear cannal. I wil try and find the link.

Thanks for pointing that out! I stand corrected!

Can I somehow edit my original post, to include a 'the next section has been proven wrong'-statement?

 

[Telis]

Low frequency noise is less damaging than high frequency noise; wear earplugs, don't go around screaming, and you'll be fine.

That's sounds really nice and all but if you are in the situation @greg1992 posted about that doesn't help. You will be required to raise your voice or even yell to be heard over 90db.

 

[geg1992]

That's sounds really nice and all but if you are in the situation @greg1992 posted about that doesn't help. You will be required to raise your voice or even yell to be heard over 90db.

Am I right in thinking for example; in an environment with 85-90db, you'd wear ear plugs...so to be able to speak above people you're probably looking at 95db +. When you consider the occlusion effect, your ears are actually exposed to as much as 115db based on the theory of up to 20db? As that seems crazy!

 

[Telis]

Am I right in thinking for example; in an environment with 85-90db, you'd wear ear plugs...so to be able to speak above people you're probably looking at 95db +. When you consider the occlusion effect, your ears are actually exposed to as much as 115db based on the theory of up to 20db? As that seems crazy!

Yeah sounds about right.

I can speak with a low voice with no pain, I put ear plugs in and speak with that same volume and I'm in a lot of pain. It's definately a lot louder. I also played tennis with plugs in last summer, the noise was terrible hammering around on the court. My H would spike to unbearable levels after I was done. The rest of the day I could barely hit a light switch without my ears being totally punished. If you have H you will notice the difference in volume easily. Try eating carrots with ear protection. It's a HUGE difference.

 

[RB2014]

I hate to say it but I stay away from bars and pubs now. You never know what you are going to get. Might be a good idea to take up some hobbies to keep you busy. You can still be social without going to those places, just invite friends over, meet them at less noisy places. There are lots of alternatives, but yeah it sucks, I know.

 

[linearb]

That's sounds really nice and all but if you are in the situation @greg1992 posted about that doesn't help. You will be required to raise your voice or even yell to be heard over 90db.

right, but raising your voice to be heard intermittently, is only exposing you to very short bursts of loud volumes. Yelling as a one time thing doesn't do hearing damage; to do instantaneous damage, you need to get much louder than the human voice is capable of (unless you're literally screaming directly into someone else's ear).

I think the idea that routinely loud places (bars, etc) are "dangerous" even with hearing protection is just anxious phonophobia, and not a real fear, because it's contrary to everything I've ever read on the subject, and everything that every hearing specialist I've ever seen has told me. Things that are really obnoxiously loud -- like motorcycles -- are a bit more controversial, but I think it would be pretty shocking if something like talking loudly at a bar -- with plugs in -- could do anything remotely bad to you, just because it flies directly in the face of literally everything I've ever read about this subject.

In any case, my own experience was that I attended loud events (bars, being in the front of concerts, shooting firearms, fireworks, etc) for more than a decade with no change in my hearing levels or tinnitus. The thing which DID exacerbate my tinnitus, was going to a single, unreasonably loud show, without hearing protection.

At bars, with plugs in, I'd be more worried about brain damage from the booze than anything else, because alcohol is clearly neurotoxic, and also interacts directly with that lamentable GABA system which is deeply caught up in tinnitus signal propagation... I write, with a beer in my hand

 

[Telis]

right, but raising your voice to be heard intermittently, is only exposing you to very short bursts of loud volumes. Yelling as a one time thing doesn't do hearing damage; to do instantaneous damage, you need to get much louder than the human voice is capable of (unless you're literally screaming directly into someone else's ear).

I think the idea that routinely loud places (bars, etc) are "dangerous" even with hearing protection is just anxious phonophobia, and not a real fear, because it's contrary to everything I've ever read on the subject, and everything that every hearing specialist I've ever seen has told me. Things that are really obnoxiously loud -- like motorcycles -- are a bit more controversial, but I think it would be pretty shocking if something like talking loudly at a bar -- with plugs in -- could do anything remotely bad to you, just because it flies directly in the face of literally everything I've ever read about this subject.

In any case, my own experience was that I attended loud events (bars, being in the front of concerts, shooting firearms, fireworks, etc) for more than a decade with no change in my hearing levels or tinnitus. The thing which DID exacerbate my tinnitus, was going to a single, unreasonably loud show, without hearing protection.

At bars, with plugs in, I'd be more worried about brain damage from the booze than anything else, because alcohol is clearly neurotoxic, and also interacts directly with that lamentable GABA system which is deeply caught up in tinnitus signal propagation... I write, with a beer in my hand

Maybe you can post something you read? How loud is my voice internally when I speak above 90db all night? And how much noise can a person with a damaged auditory system take? If there is something you have read about this, please by all means post it! I would love to know that the pain I feel in my ears is my own paranoia and my experiences are not at all valid but rather some sort of deep seeded fear.

 

[linearb]

You can't prove a negative. If there's some compelling research showing that the occlusion effect can cause earplugs to create hearing damage, or that ~100-110 db venues are dangerous even with 33db earplugs in because of the occlusion effect, then I would love to see it. It's not impossible, but in general hearing doctors, who spend their careers studying hearing anatomy and discourage anything which can damage your ears, are adamant and unanimous in suggesting that it's not reasonable to stop going out to restaurants/bars/etc if you have earplugs. If it was actually the case that earplugs themselves could exacerbate damage, and make usually loud environments damaging, then I would expect that to be known by some amount of the large number of people who have spent years studying hearing and working with hearing damaged individuals.

Does it not strike you as somewhat odd to think that earplugs could make your own voice cause damage, that this would in turn make places like loud restaurants unsafe even with plugs, and that this fact would somehow have completely slipped past the notice of the hearing health and aid industry?

 

[Telis]

Odd? I think tinnits is odd but that doesn't mean a anything. I also think medication that can cause deafness and tinnitus to treat tinnitus is odd. I think it's odd that most people here wear ear plugs in every day situations. I think it's extreemly odd that people can have a worsening of their tinnitus from a siren, people shouting, someone sneezing. I also think it's odd that my ears hurt from the flick of a light switch. So what!? It's all odd.

The occlusion effect is odd as well. As I post above it is real and is a concern for many people, just google it. There are ear plug companies trying to work around this with vents, deeper fitting plugs etc etc

If you are worried enough to wear ear protection in social situations, in your car, in your back yard etc to begin with this is obviously something that would be of interest and potentially a concern to MANY people here. This is the reason I posted it!!

 

[NiNyu]

@linearb and @Telis , I think you are both right. It depends on the hearing damage of the individual. For example, if you have healthy ears wearing earplugs and raise your voice over 90db ambient noise it will hardly cause any damage to your hearing. However, if you have extreme T and even H it's a whole different game and might cause damage or at least severe pain in the long run.

What's also interesting are corollary discharge interneurons, which protect your hearing from noise when you scream.

Source, http://www.livescience.com/586-screaming-deaf.html

 

[Balthazar]

In any case, my own experience was that I attended loud events (bars, being in the front of concerts, shooting firearms, fireworks, etc) for more than a decade with no change in my hearing levels or tinnitus. The thing which DID exacerbate my tinnitus, was going to a single, unreasonably loud show, without hearing protection.

I'd just like to echo my agreement here. I've been back out going to pubs, bars and even clubbing. My rule of thumb is if I can't hear someone speaking to me when I'm facing them from a normal distance then the earplugs go in. Bars/pubs are for socialising, so if it's too loud to speak then it's probably not a great place. Equally clubs should be about the music, so if you have good earplugs then you'll actually be getting a better quality of sound as your ear won't compress.

I use these http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0033XVJKG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00. Once you get in the habit, they're pretty easy to get in and out discretely. I also take NAC before and after, no idea if this helps....

However having said all that T appears to affect everyone differently, so this may not work for you. It did take me about 6 months from onset, after the hypercusis had disappeared And the T had settled down to in my head rather than out till I was ready to go out though. I always worry it won't stay this way, but you can't live in constantly in fear.

 

[Telis]

@linearb and @Telis , I think you are both right. It depends on the hearing damage of the individual. For example, if you have healthy ears wearing earplugs and raise your voice over 90db ambient noise it won't cause any damage to your hearing. However, if you have extreme T and even H it's a whole different game and might cause damage in the long run.

What's also interesting are corollary discharge interneurons, which protect our hearing from noise when we scream.

Source, http://www.livescience.com/586-screaming-deaf.html

Thank you. Yes I am only referring to a person with a damaged auditory system. I for example play hockey outdoor. I can put ear plugs in and the vibration from the ruts and bumps create this effect in a massive way. In fact it is so loud that within 5 minutes my ears are done. However if I skate with no ear protection, the exterior noise is about 75-80db and I can do this for hours before my ears feel exhausted. This is what prompted me to look into this strange effect. To tell me this is anxious thinking or I'm being paranoid is a little bit closed minded to say the least, especially when I provide/post proof of this effect.

 

[NiNyu]

@Telis , you're very welcome. Speaking of outdoor hockey, I love to rollerblade. I used to participate in skatenights like Pari Roller. Now I don't know if I can do that ever again.

 

[linearb]

Now I don't know if I can do that ever again.

and this is a great example of toxic, distorted thinking.

Unless you were into shooting guns with no earplugs in or playing lead guitar for a top-tier metal band, tinnitus is not a reasonable reason to give up your hobbies... and the more you think like this, the more you let it control your life.

 

[NiNyu]

@linearb , you may be right.. but T is controlling my life. Why, 'cause it doesn't let me sleep or relax. My sanity has become pudding. Perhaps I should shoot some guns.. maybe that way we get some awareness. In the news: another T suffering zombie ran amok and caused havoc. The world is holding their breath. When will there be a treatment for this insane T virus? Blah blah blah..

..thinking about it we actually should all run amok. We really could get some priceless publicity! It might instigate some new research. Guns are loud, you know. Moreover, the NRA could sponsor us. Where there is chaos and war there's plenty of money and research going on.^^

 

[Telis]

@Telis , you're very welcome. Speaking of outdoor hockey, I love to rollerblade. I used to participate in skatenights like Pari Roller. Now I don't know if I can do that ever again.

I'm sure you can do it again. Might not have the same joy if your ears hurt and are screaming but it's surely better than sitting around. Try it with ear plugs in and out, please let me know what you feel is louder.

 

[linearb]

@linearb , you may be right.. but T is controlling my life. Why, 'cause it doesn't let me sleep or relax. My sanity has become pudding. Perhaps I should shoot some guns..

I think you need sleep more than you need firearms. I think that you will eventually figure out how to get decent sleep, because it seems like pretty much everyone with this condition does eventually.

I think that once your sleep is normal, your sanity will be largely restored, too. When we are in a chronic state of stress and sleep deprivation it has a way of making everything else in life about 100 times harder.

 

[NiNyu]

I'm afraid I'm not everyone else. I have a balaclava.. next thing on my list is a gun. Hope the NRA supports me.