Habituation and How Is It Possible?

[Dr. Nagler]

@Dr. Nagler out of curiosity how often do you hear yours? I remember reading Shatner's experience and he stated he only heard it when he consciously focused on it. I don't know if it's the same for you.

I of course hear it whenever I purposely try to hear it, which is almost never because ... well, why would I? Why would anybody?

And in addition I might briefly become aware of it for whatever reason maybe once or twice a day. But whenever that happens, I generally become unaware of it again within a minute or so. Why? How can that be if it's so LOUD? It's because I don't care. I just don't care. And in the final analysis that's what habituation is all about - not caring.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Martin69]

I of course hear it whenever I purposely try to hear it, which is almost never because ... well, why would I? Why would anybody?

And in addition I might briefly become aware of it for whatever reason maybe once or twice a day. But whenever that happens, I generally become unaware of it again within a minute or so. Why? How can that be if it's so LOUD? It's because I don't care. I just don't care. And in the final analysis that's what habituation is all about - not caring.

Stephen Nagler

Hi Stephen Nagler,

How long did it take for you habituating?

Spoke with an ENT here. She has herself a buzz saw in one ear and hissing in the other ear.
It took her not too long (two months) until she no longer cared about it.
I asked her what habituation ist and she answered. She hears her T, but it doesn't bother her.

I really try living my life as normal as possible and do not give T any room. But really don't know how one can habituate to such a high pitched whistle in his head.

Martin

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Hi Stephen Nagler.
How long did it take for you habituating?

Once I started TRT? 14-16 months.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Martin69]

Once I started TRT? 14-16 months.

Stephen Nagler

Thanks Dr. Nagler.

I have done TRT seven weeks in tinnitus clinic with several ENTs.
They explained me everything about hair cells, limbic system, audiogramms, ups and downs, CBT, acceptance, tolerance etc (counselling part).
I am using hearing aids and sometimes white noise devices (that's the devices part).
The practical part was a hearing therapy, which is concentrating on surrounding sound, distracting etc.
Also they tried stabilizing me with AD meds (still taking 20 mg Mirtazapine for sleeping and AD).

I spoke with another ENT who habituated in about one year. But he also has Meniere's.

So we need to be patient and hope that time is key for everyone here.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

@Martin69 -

If I may ask, who is your TRT clinician? As far as I know, the only ones in Germany who have actually taken Dr. Jastreboff's TRT course are Christian Hellwig, Gabriele Lux-Wellenhof, Elmar Spyra, and Manfred Schmitz. There may be others who have taken the course, but those are the ones I know of.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Martin69]

@Martin69 -

If I may ask, who is your TRT clinician? As far as I know, the only ones in Germany who have actually taken Dr. Jastreboff's TRT course are Christian Hellwig, Gabriele Lux-Wellenhof, Elmar Spyra, and Manfred Schmitz. There may be others who have taken the course, but those are the ones I know of.

Stephen Nagler

I don't want to give names her without their approval.
But the best tinnitus clinics in Germany are Dr. Hesse tinnitus clinic in Bad Arolsen, Schoen Klinik in Bad Arolsen (where I was) and Charite in Berlin. They do not name it TRT, but it seems same or similar content to me. Counselling, psychotherapy, devices, hearing therapy, CBT.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I don't want to give names her without their approval.
But the best tinnitus clinics in Germany are Dr. Hesse tinnitus clinic in Bad Arolsen, Schoen Klinik in Bad Arolsen (where I was) and Charite in Berlin. They do not name it TRT, but it seems same or similar content to me. Counselling, psychotherapy, devices, hearing therapy, CBT.

So they do not call it TRT, but is seems to you like it's TRT.

See, I have a problem there.

If they cannot legitimately call what they are doing TRT, then whatever it is ... it's not TRT.

My sincere hope for you is that you succeed in your treatment program - but if you do succeed, please do not call it a TRT success because it won't be.

And if you fail, please don't call it a TRT failure because it won't be that either.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Martin69]

So they do not call it TRT, but is seems to you like it's TRT.

See, I have a problem there.

If they cannot legitimately call what they are doing TRT, then whatever it is ... it's not TRT.

My hope for you is that you succeed in your treatment program - but if you do succeed, please do not call it a TRT success because it won't be.

And if you fail, please don't call it a TRT failure because it won't be that either.

Stephen Nagler

If I check details on www.tinnitus.org, I did all what is described there.

They educated us that T is a normal sound in auditory contex which came into consciousness, how it is treated as negative signal by limbic system, produces distress, weakening of auditory filters, neuronal networks etc. etc.
The goal is to retrain those filters no longer seeing T as a threat.

I am not 100% the same opinion that it is "normal" sound in my head.
But it is true that I had no noise-induced tinnitus or an infection.
It was a burnout and panic (thought I have brain tumor after three weeks having headache) when my T started. So I think that my brain was in alarm state and neurons started firing like crazy. Hair cells did not respond properly and so my brain started generating these tones itself. At least this is what I believ and what I was told.

So for me the goal is to accept this warning signal as a normal sound and to habituate by strenghten auditory filters again. At the end it doesn't matter how T started. In my opinion there are neurons generating the sound themselves on the frequencies one has damaged hair cells (what everyone has more or less). So habituation is the final goal because I don't know how to retrain my brain not to stop generating this sound.

 

[Beth]

Dr. Nagler.......I agree with you 100% on the 'make tinnitus your friend' quote. Several years ago I was in email contact with Mr Hazel and every email without fail ended in the words, 'the aim is to make tinnitus your friend and when that is achieved you have reached habituation'. I've felt a failure ever since because I cannot be friends with something that has altered my life so drastically. I hope Jacquie Sheldrake doesn't spout that sort of crap. I was also told by him to sort out my emotional problems before doing TRT but I have it on better authority (Dr Stephen Nagler!) that the other way round is probably better. I've got the TRT book and some bits are fine but I'm so pleased that some people on this forum disagree with the 'friend' bit as I thought it was just me being useless.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

@Beth -

Jacqui is very cool. I like her a lot.

Plus, she shares office space with Laurence McKenna, who is one of the world's authorities on CBT for tinnitus. So if the anxiety issue does somehow present a real problem, you'll have an excellent resource right there!

All the best -

Stephen Nagler

 

[Dr. Nagler]

If I check details on www.tinnitus.org, I did all what is described there.

In my opinion, if they cannot legitimately call what they are doing TRT, then it's not TRT.

Have they put you in a TRT category? Is the counseling consistent with the category? Is the sound therapy consistent with the category? Have they talked to you about the issues of annoyance and communication when finding the mixing point? How about stochastic resonance?

Martin, there's lots more to TRT than meets the eye.

That doesn't mean what you're doing it won't work. That doesn't mean it's not based on sound principles. It just means it's not TRT.

This might not be a big issue for you, my friend, but it is for me. Internet support sites are loaded with folks who supposely "have failed TRT," but when you get right down to it, what they did wasn't TRT at all. They were just under the impression that it was.

So when you succeed, as I sincerely hope you will, please do not call yourself a TRT success. And if you fail, which I sincerely hope will not be the case, please do not call yourself a TRT failure.

That's my take on it anyway.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Martin69]

In my opinion, if they cannot legitimately call what they are doing TRT, then it's not TRT.

Have they put you in a TRT category? Is the counseling consistent with the category? Is the sound therapy consistent with the category? Have they talked to you about the issues of annoyance and communication when finding the mixing point? How about stochastic resonance?

No. They did not. This is unknown to me.
Then you are right and it was no 100% TRT.
But this is what they offer here in tinnitus clinics.

Is the Henry/ Wilson book TRT?
Or how do I get more detailed information about it?

TIA, Martin

 

[Dr. Nagler]

No. They did not. This is unknown to me.
Then you are right and it was no 100% TRT.
But this is what they offer here in tinnitus clinics.

Just so long as we agree it's not TRT.

Doesn't mean it won't work; only means it's not TRT.

Is the Henry/ Wilson book TRT?
Or how do I get more detailed information about it?

No. The book by Henry & Wilson, which I absolutely love, has nothing to do with TRT at all. It is sort of a guide to CBT for tinnitus, written by two knowledgeable and experienced cognitive behavioral therapists.

Stephen Nagler