Habituation: No Action Required?

[Mark McDill]

@Telis good to see you on the site; I know you're struggling and it seems almost pointless to say 'we're with you' cause that doesn't make your pain/suffering go away -- but I'll say it anyways 'we're with you'. I would say without a doubt you have a clear demarcation between your quality of life prior to T and now.

Try to stay out of the 'suffering wars'; it's a waste of time and energy. Some will say 'my suffering is greater than your suffering' and others will say that you have no reason to claim suffering at all; the fact is, I have simple T and I know first hand it was suffering at the onset; you have complex T plus H (ugh!). Either way, you say you are suffering and I'm keeping you in my prayers that you will eventually be able to get on top of this and back on your feet (start clobbering opponents on the tennis court again!).

Mark

 

[Dr. Nagler]

My point exactly. I'm glad you cleared that up for yourself.

Are you under the impression that people who are severely affected because of their tinnitus have a higher suicide than those who are severely affected because of other stressors? Like there is something particularly unique with tinnitus in that regard?

I have never seen any data to support that contention. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[dan]

Why is @Dr. Nagler allowed to troll @Telis like this? Telis clearly did not make any indication that tinnitus suicide is greater than suicide related to other illnesses.

 

[Martin69]

Why is @Dr. Nagler allowed to troll @Telis like this? Telis clearly did not make any indication that tinnitus suicide is greater than suicide related to other illnesses.

Why does he "troll"?
Dan, why do you always miscredit Dr. Naglers comments? At least this is my impression.
In my opinion he does his very best helping us. Of course we all want to get rid of T. But he cannot do, no one can.

 

[dan]

Why does he "troll"?
Dan, why do you always miscredit Dr. Naglers comments? At least this is my impression.
In my opinion he does his very best helping us. Of course we all want to get rid of T. But he cannot do, no one can.

Because he knows Telis is going thru a very rough time, and he is purposefully challenging him and luring him into an argument, an argument that he is conjuring up - since Telis implied no such thing whatsoever. Dr.Nagler is not stupid so why would he say that Telis said something like that?

 

[MattK]

Why is @Dr. Nagler allowed to troll @Telis like this? Telis clearly did not make any indication that tinnitus suicide is greater than suicide related to other illnesses.

How's that trolling? Like Dr. Nagler said, perhaps he missed the point. But he's not trolling.

 

[dan]

Yes, he "missed" the point. If one cannot see it, I cannot help them.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

@Martin69 and @MattK -

I have no idea what Dan is talking about here. Suicide is a "no nonsense" topic. Some boards do not even permit mention of the word. @Telis is suffering terribly - and he posted: "Suicide and tinnitus is real for a lot of us." What I want him and everybody else on this board to know is that while thoughts of suicide are not uncommon in the tinnitus population, the act of suicide is. And that is true even for those who are seriously plagued by tinnitus and suffering terribly.

I remember when I was so distressed that not only did I think about suicide, I thought about method and even checked to make sure my life insurance policy did not exclude suicide so that my family would be provided for. The idea that I would "troll" somebody here who is suffering like Telis is? Please.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[MattK]

@Martin69 and @MattK -

I have no idea what Dan is talking about here. Suicide is a "no nonsense" topic. Some boards do not even permit mention of the word. @Telis is suffering terribly - and he posted: "Suicide and tinnitus is real for a lot of us." What I want him and everybody else on this board to know is that while thoughts of suicide are not uncommon in the tinnitus population, the act of suicide is. And that is true even for those who are seriously plagued by tinnitus and suffering terribly.

I remember when I was so distressed that not only did I think about suicide, I thought about method and even checked to make sure my life insurance policy did not exclude suicide so that my family would be provided for. The idea that I would "troll" somebody here who is suffering like Telis is? Please.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

I know you're not trolling. I think some are just beyond frustrated. I understand that and I wish I could help them.

Btw, I had some wonderful Thai food last night! what's your favorite dish?

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I know you're not trolling. I think some are just beyond frustrated. I understand that and I wish I could help them.

Btw, I had some wonderful Thai food last night! what's your favorite dish?

Nua Num Tok and Chicken Matsaman Curry.

But back on topic ...

I recall back in 1994 when I was deeply depressed and desperate for relief - any relief - I told the psychiatrist I had been seeing for my tinnitus-induced depression that I was afraid I was actually going to commit suicide. I was really frightened! After all, I had been considering method and going through my insurance policies! By now this fellow knew me quite well; here is what he said. He said that he realized how miserable and depressed I was, but there was just no way I was going to commit suicide. I confess that his just telling me that was a bit reassuring, but I asked him how he could be so sure. He said simply - because you're not crazy ... and you have to be crazy to commit suicide. Now looking back today I honestly do not know whether or not he was 100% right in his statement that you have to be crazy to commit suicide. And "crazy" isn't really a term used formally in psychiatric consultation. But at the time - for me - it sure lifted a burden off my shoulders. True story.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[ampumpkin]

@Dr. Nagler a quick question...

I am under the impression that one's attitude towards T is the key to habituation. I've read it several times on here... in my case, when I hit a turning point, where I decided that T was NOT gonna get the best of me, my life really started to feel normal again...

I wonder what you think about that. Am I right? Or wrong?

Some users on here are suffering real bad... I don't know what we can do for them, actually, I think the key to feeling better is THEMSELVES.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

@Dr. Nagler a quick question...

I am under the impression that one's attitude towards T is the key to habituation. I've read it several times on here... in my case, when I hit a turning point, where I decided that T was NOT gonna get the best of me, my life really started to feel normal again...

I wonder what you think about that. Am I right? Or wrong?

Some users on here are suffering real bad... I don't know what we can do for them, actually, I think the key to feeling better is THEMSELVES.

It may be a quick question ... but as I see it the answer is complex.

One of the problems lies in the fact that what I call habituation may not be what the next guy (or gal) calls habituation.

I do agree with you that the key lies in each of us. But that key, in my opinion, is to keep an open mind. There are some on this board who will not even admit the possibility that there might be another legitimate approach to the achievement of meaningful lasting relief besides trying to cure their tinnitus or at least mitigate its loudness. I understand where they are coming from, but as I see it ... they are their own worst enemy. And in a way, they are your worst enemy as well - because (again as I see it) their inflexibility pollutes this site. I mean, if I can keep an open mind, why can't they!!?? If I can support research towards a cure, why can't they respect habituation-based modalities that have provided relief to thousands upon thousands. I just don't get it.

That said, is one's attitude the key to habituation? One huge challenge has to do with the fact that it is very difficult to willfully change deeply-held opinions. So rather than framing it in terms of "attitude," I would say that since habituation is a passive process, the key to habituation of tinnitus lies in identifying and effectively addressing one's barriers to habituation, whatever those barriers might be.

An excellent question, @ampumpkin. I fear my response did not do it justice.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[ampumpkin]

I do agree with you @Dr. Nagler but I do realize that my point of view may be offensive to some as I'm basically saying that they are/their attitude is the main problem.

 

[Telis]

@Telis good to see you on the site; I know you're struggling and it seems almost pointless to say 'we're with you' cause that doesn't make your pain/suffering go away -- but I'll say it anyways 'we're with you'. I would say without a doubt you have a clear demarcation between your quality of life prior to T and now.

Try to stay out of the 'suffering wars'; it's a waste of time and energy. Some will say 'my suffering is greater than your suffering' and others will say that you have no reason to claim suffering at all; the fact is, I have simple T and I know first hand it was suffering at the onset; you have complex T plus H (ugh!). Either way, you say you are suffering and I'm keeping you in my prayers that you will eventually be able to get on top of this and back on your feet (start clobbering opponents on the tennis court again!).

Mark

Thanks so much Mark, I really appreciate your excellent advise.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I do agree with you @Dr. Nagler but I do realize that my point of view may be offensive to some as I'm basically saying that they are/their attitude is the main problem.

Well, since you live in Montreal ... perhaps the key to habituation is a smoked meat sandwich with fries??!! That'll fix anything!

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

[meeruf]

I've seen some who are habituated say that no action is required, even if the tinnitus becomes louder. How true is this?

Can someone who is habituated sit in a quiet room and read without turning on some type of environmental noise? If no, then it seems action is required. If yes, then how do we get to that point?

I can sit in a quiet room with my tinnitus. No problem at all. I have no negative feelings towards it right now. If you asked me that question one year ago I would probably give you a crypted answer because I was all drugged down on anti-anxiety.

Sometimes it's quite loud. But now I just think something like: "Yeah, its quite loud now". I have no emotional feelings towards it.

 

[MattK]

I can sit in a quiet room with my tinnitus. No problem at all. I have no negative feelings towards it right now.

That's really awesome, glad to hear it I'm still not to that point, but I'm slowly making progress. I still have to have some type of environmental noise to drown out the ringing, especially when it gets loud.

 

[MattK]

I do agree with you @Dr. Nagler but I do realize that my point of view may be offensive to some as I'm basically saying that they are/their attitude is the main problem.

I'm not a professional, but I do think you're right. When I started to think more optimistically and focus on what I do have in my life rather than what I don't, the better I have started to feel about things.

 

[meeruf]

That's really awesome, glad to hear it I'm still not to that point, but I'm slowly making progress. I still have to have some type of environmental noise to drown out the ringing, especially when it gets loud.

Yeah, I understand you. I was there just six months ago. I hated it. I don't use masking anymore. It's just "more to do". Lol. The ringing is there, it's a part of me now. Not an "outside" monster anymore.

Actually, when it's loud now. I get kind of happy whenever I have no negative feelings to it. I have mastered it. Give's me confidence, in a weird way.

 

[MattK]

Nua Num Tok and Chicken Matsaman Curry.

But back on topic ...

I recall back in 1994 when I was deeply depressed and desperate for relief - any relief - I told the psychiatrist I had been seeing for my tinnitus-induced depression that I was afraid I was actually going to commit suicide. I was really frightened! After all, I had been considering method and going through my insurance policies! By now this fellow knew me quite well; here is what he said. He said that he realized how miserable and depressed I was, but there was just no way I was going to commit suicide. I confess that his just telling me that was a bit reassuring, but I asked him how he could be so sure. He said simply - because you're not crazy ... and you have to be crazy to commit suicide. Now looking back today I honestly do not know whether or not he was 100% right in his statement that you have to be crazy to commit suicide. And "crazy" isn't really a term used formally in psychiatric consultation. But at the time - for me - it sure lifted a burden off my shoulders. True story.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

I'm truly glad to know that you're out of that pit, Dr. Nagler. Your presence here, and your "Letter to a Tinnitus Sufferer" have been a greater help to me than almost anything else.

Gonna give those dishes a shot next time I eat out.

 

[MattK]

Yeah, I understand you. I was there just six months ago. I hated it. I don't use masking anymore. It's just "more to do". Lol. The ringing is there, it's a part of me now. Not an "outside" monster anymore.

lol perhaps that's how you know you've habituated... when using white noise becomes more of a hassle than a necessity. Yeah, for a while there I HATED having to live with T. I didn't want to mask it or habituate or anything. I wanted it GONE. But unfortunately, as of right now, there isn't a proven cure for it (I'm not gonna use retigabine until I gather more info), so after much frustration, I finally reached acceptance.

 

[meeruf]

lol perhaps that's how you know you've habituated... when using white noise becomes more of a hassle than a necessity. Yeah, for a while there I HATED having to live with T. I didn't want to mask it or habituate or anything. I wanted it GONE. But unfortunately, as of right now, there isn't a proven cure for it (I'm not gonna use retigabine until I gather more info), so after much frustration, I finally reached acceptance.

Yeah, desire is a dangerous thing when it comes to tinnitus. Can really make you needy and depressered. Get that desire away and you are atleast half the way to habiutation.

 

[ampumpkin]

Someone mentionned that it is not possible to love the T. I wanted to come back to that.

I never loved my T. But I have to admit that the sound previous to my increase back in May, well it was alright. It was like a waterfall, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... In my habituation process, I learned to live with it and in the 7 years prior to the increase, I even found it alright, even soothing at times...

Now, my sound is like a hiss, it's ugly. It's not like the dog whistle @Martin69 is hearing...so I guess I should be glad for THAT... Because my sound is not that agressive in pitch, it's just MEH, useless and ugly.

 

[Telis]

I do agree with you @Dr. Nagler but I do realize that my point of view may be offensive to some as I'm basically saying that they are/their attitude is the main problem.

Maybe they have severe tinnitus and it just takes them longer? Maybe they struggle even more when people label them as having a problem with attitude? Maybe they just have legitimate concerns and challenging questions, or maybe just maybe, they don't understand the process as well as others do, and are just trying to learn?

But hey...it's easier to just cast people aside and throw a label on them than it is to understand them. As Dr Nagler said "their inflexibility pollutes this site".

 

[ampumpkin]

in my case, habituation is related to LETTING GO. My T has decreased since May but it's not like before...

In June, I started letting go of the emotional pain that T was causing... I have a lot to lose. I have 3 small children, I'm a single mom. I had to do it... but it was hard and it still is. But as time goes by, I feel better and better.... I just wish the same for all of us.

I don't wish for a cure actually because I don't want to have false hopes... maybe a cure is NEVER coming in this lifetime...

 

[ampumpkin]

@Telis you can be offended by my point of view and I respect it. I do not think you are weak or stupid or anything else. But you are clearly letting T take over your life when you should be the one telling T to go f*** itself, no matter how loud it is!!

 

[ampumpkin]

@Telis actually, I think that @Dr. Nagler was pointing at the negative people on this board when he wrote "their inflexibility pollutes this site".

 

[Telis]

@Telis actually, I think that @Dr. Nagler was pointing at the negative people on this board when he wrote "their inflexibility pollutes this site".

I don't see negative people here, I see people suffering in a negative situation. Guess it's all perspective.

 

[ampumpkin]

You see @Telis if you have made it this far, you are clearly a fighter. You have strenght in you, you have what is necessary for a better life...I hate to see that you are suffering so much, I am VERY sensitive to the pain on this board and it hurts me when I read such sad testimony...

I pray for the day that you start a post and tell us that your T has gotten better and that you have your life back.

Sincerely,

Anne-Marie

 

[Telis]

You see @Telis if you have made it this far, you are clearly a fighter. You have strenght in you, you have what is necessary for a better life...I hate to see that you are suffering so much, I am VERY sensitive to the pain on this board and it hurts me when I read such sad testimony...

I pray for the day that you start a post and tell us that your T has gotten better and that you have your life back.

Sincerely,

Anne-Marie

Thank you so much.